Genesis 1

[LoAmmi]

I am going to go back to my idea of scripture discussion. The purpose of this thread is for people to share views. I am laying a few ground rules out.

• No bickering! People are entitled to their view of scripture and that view should be respected.
• Disagreeing is fine, but I do not want to see the same argument batted back and forth for ten pages.
• No belittling any view. Any honest view of scripture is valid

If I have to add to these I will.



If the thread descends into bickering, I will request the thread be closed and will cease making any of them.



Bereishit / Genesis Chapter 1 to follow using the translation from Chabad.org. If you wish to discuss another translation, please post that.

Let me know if you want to break up the discussion into smaller bits such as 5-10 verses at a time.

 

[LoAmmi]

[FONT=&quot]Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]1. In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]2. Now the earth was astonishingly empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]3. And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]4. And God saw the light that it was good, and God separated between the light and between the darkness.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]5. And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night, and it was evening and it was morning, one day.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]6. And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, and let it be a separation between water and water."[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]7. And God made the expanse and it separated between the water that was below the expanse and the water that was above the expanse, and it was so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]8. And God called the expanse Heaven, and it was evening, and it was morning, a second day.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]9. And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]10. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas, and God saw that it was good.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]11. And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, seed yielding herbs and fruit trees producing fruit according to its kind in which its seed is found, on the earth," and it was so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]12. And the earth gave forth vegetation, seed yielding herbs according to its kind, and trees producing fruit, in which its seed is found, according to its kind, and God saw that it was good.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]13. And it was evening, and it was morning, a third day.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]14. And God said, "Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens, to separate between the day and between the night, and they shall be for signs and for appointed seasons and for days and years.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]15. And they shall be for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shed light upon the earth." And it was so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]16. And God made the two great luminaries: the great luminary to rule the day and the lesser luminary to rule the night, and the stars.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]17. And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to shed light upon the earth.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate between the light and between the darkness, and God saw that it was good.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]19. And it was evening, and it was morning, a fourth day.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]20. And God said, "Let the waters swarm a swarming of living creatures, and let fowl fly over the earth, across the expanse of the heavens."[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]21. And God created the great sea monsters, and every living creature that crawls, with which the waters swarmed, according to their kind, and every winged fowl, according to its kind, and God saw that it was good.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]22. And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters of the seas, and let the fowl multiply upon the earth."[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]23. And it was evening, and it was morning, a fifth day.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]24. And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kind, cattle and creeping things and the beasts of the earth according to their kind," and it was so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]25. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kind and the cattle according to their kind, and all the creeping things of the ground according to their kind, and God saw that it was good.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]26. And God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and they shall rule over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heaven and over the animals and over all the earth and over all the creeping things that creep upon the earth."[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]27. And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]28. And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the sky and over all the beasts that tread upon the earth. "[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]29. And God said, "Behold, I have given you every seed bearing herb, which is upon the surface of the entire earth, and every tree that has seed bearing fruit; it will be yours for food.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]30. And to all the beasts of the earth and to all the fowl of the heavens, and to everything that moves upon the earth, in which there is a living spirit, every green herb to eat," and it was so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]31. And God saw all that He had made, and behold it was very good, and it was evening and it was morning, the sixth day.[/FONT]
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[freezerman2000]

That's a lot to cover..I'm going to say that,in a nutshell,the Creation account is fine for me with one problem..it did not go into the processes involved. It's to simplified.
#26 and 27 are my favorites because I do not think that God created A&E in His PHYSICAL image(spirit has no form),but in His SPIRITUAL image..making A&E holy..unblemished,His first truly chosen people.
There were other people around at the time-Cain went to the land of Nod and married. Where did the inhabitants of that land come from?

 

[LoAmmi]

I do not believe that Genesis 1 is a factual account of the creation of the Earth, but rather it is a story that teaches us. It shows G-d took an active role in the creation process, even if it wasn't six days as shown. It also shows Him creating each being and then creating humans in His image.

 

[LoAmmi]

#26 and 27 are my favorites because I do not think that God created A&E in His PHYSICAL image(spirit has no form),but in His SPIRITUAL image..making A&E holy..unblemished,His first truly chosen people.

Judaism sees image as meaning our ability to reason. It is what allows us to do what is right or wrong unlike animals who cannot decide those things.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Ah, the first creation account.

I am a little (though not too much) surprised that you picked a translation that renders the first verse as such:

1. In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.​

(Not sure why there is a period at the end of this conditional clause, though.)


Oh, I think you should've included the Gen. 2:1-4a as well.

 

[LoAmmi]

Ah, the first creation account.

I am a little (though not too much) surprised that you picked a translation that renders the first verse as such:

1. In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.​

(Not sure why there is a period at the end of this conditional clause, though.)

Not really sure why the period is there either. I believe in another edition there is a comma and the "now" is dropped from the second verse. Why were you surprised?

Oh, I think you should've included the Gen. 2:1-4a as well.

We'll get there.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Not really sure why the period is there either. Why were you surprised?

"In the beginning God created ..." is more common. Although not necessarily amongst Jews.

We'll get there.

I think it should be here as it belongs to the first creation account. The seventh day of the creation week, if you wish.

Especially you shouldn't be bound by the chapter divisions. They are a later addition anyway.

 

[LoAmmi]

"In the beginning God created ..." is more common. Although not necessarily amongst Jews.

I've seen it both ways. I prefer this way because it isn't suggesting that this was the beginning of everything, merely the beginning of this Earth.

I think it should be here as it belongs to the first creation account. The seventh day of the creation week, if you wish.

Especially you shouldn't be bound by the chapter divisions. They are a later addition anyway.

Oh, I know, but I was debating keeping it even shorter like 5-10 verses. I actually think as much as I posted is a bit overwhelming.

 

[Thetruefaith]

I'm not sure what you are discussing here exactly is it God creation of Heaven and Earth or just discussing your scriptures.

If it is about Gods Creation in general, will you give me the permission to share my own views as a Muslim. waiting .

 

[bibledoctor]

I usually find that different types of Christians can have different views concerning Creationism and the 1st verse in the bible.

 

[LoAmmi]

I'm not sure what you are discussing here exactly is it God creation of Heaven and Earth or just discussing your scriptures.

If it is about Gods Creation in general, will you give me the permission to share my own views as a Muslim. waiting .

Well, I was hoping for comments specifically on the text presented but if you'd like to share a view as a Muslim on it, that's fine.

 

[durangodawood]

I do not believe that Genesis 1 is a factual account of the creation of the Earth, but rather it is a story that teaches us. It shows G-d took an active role in the creation process, even if it wasn't six days as shown. It also shows Him creating each being and then creating humans in His image.

Well, if God was involved at every step, why not have Genesis present the factual account instead of a fictionalized one?
.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I read it analogistically. Its all about having fun as an innocent child. The only time im ever satisfied is with my feet in the wishing well. Thats my stairway to heaven.

 

[LoAmmi]

Well, if God was involved at every step, why not have Genesis give the factual account instead of a fictionalized one?
.

I would say that I don't think the people it was given to could have understood a factual account. The account in Genesis provides lessons for people to understand the world and their place within it.

We had to make our own way in science to uncover a more factual accounting.

 

[durangodawood]

I would say that I don't think the people it was given to could have understood a factual account. The account in Genesis provides lessons for people to understand the world and their place within it.

We had to make our own way in science to uncover a more factual accounting.

But now that the Genesis process is proven to be mythological, its such a short step to finding the Genesis creator mythical also.
.
Seems like a dangerous game that could have been avoided by presenting creation in a more factual manner.
.

 

[LoAmmi]

But now that the Genesis process is proven to be mythological, its such a short step to finding the Genesis creator mythical also.
.
Seems like a dangerous game.
.

I have no problem with this "dangerous game". That others do is not my concern.

 

[JJWhite]

Judaism sees image as meaning our ability to reason. It is what allows us to do what is right or wrong unlike animals who cannot decide those things.

Moral accountability?

 

[ViaCrucis]

But now that the Genesis process is proven to be mythological, its such a short step to finding the Genesis creator mythical also.
.
Seems like a dangerous game that could have been avoided by presenting creation in a more factual manner.
.

This assumes that mythology is inherently inferior in communicating truth than "just the facts" journalism.

Frankly, I think mythology has the capacity to speak in ways that can't be done when simply describing the facts.

For example, how does simply describing the naturalistic processes of the Big Bang or the accretion of left-over solar material to create the current eight planets in our solar system convey the power and meaning of creation, the purpose and value of the things we observe in the cosmos?

Genesis 1 simply isn't interested in describing a bland series of events, but rather in presenting a rich tapestry of divine creativity which has been imbued into the universe which we observe. Namely, it places an objective value on creation, all these things--everything that exists--is called "exceedingly good".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JJWhite]

Genesis 1 simply isn't interested in describing a bland series of events, but rather in presenting a rich tapestry of divine creativity which has been imbued into the universe which we observe. Namely, it places an objective value on creation, all these things--everything that exists--is called "exceedingly good".

-CryptoLutheran

How I see it... so, everything started off good... then God gave us the job/test to keep it that way... when we fall short in our duties, it adversely affects the world by taking away from its inherent good... when we step back into knowledge-based action and each of us does his/her part, we can bring the good back into the world and set things straight as they used to be... kind of related to that "tikkun olam" idea.