Confused about the afterlife...

rdcast

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Stuff that might be true about the afterlife.

1. You either go to Heaven or Hell right when you die.
2. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you go to Heaven or Hell.
3. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you get resurrected to live on the new earth or you go to hell.
4. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you get resurrected to live on the new earth or you get annihilated.
5. Something else?

Please tell me about the two different things that can happen after death, because I'm super confused. Different people say different things. :/
You have to come to terms with the infinite grace of God, your Creator. This video is interesting for the fact that the believer is obviously being instructed by God's Holy Spirit. When you can understand this, you will be in gear for wondrous miracles. God is unimaginably dynamic young sister. I was reborn in His Spirit and faith for my Lord, the Good Shepherd, 1976. You have nothing to fear for having been given salvation.

Watch for when he wipes his eye, it is just then the Spirit of God overwhelms his emotions.

ETERNAL PUNISHMENT is a MISTRANSLATION - Do We ALL Deserve Hell or Annihilationism? - YouTube
 
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Fascinated With God

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Not meaningless. It's just not that we are inhabited by spirits.
So if the soul survives the first death and is never destroyed in people who never die the second death (as per Matt 10:28), why is it that the first death destroys the spirit but not the soul?

Here's the greek word that gets translated as spirit. πνεῦμα Pneuma.
Have you ever heard of pneumatic tools?
Yes.
 
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Ronald

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And this destruction lasts forever, it is eternal. They are destroyed and will never live again. They die. You know the definition of death. It means to not be alive.

How can destruction last forever? That would mean they are not really destroyed but just punished because something is still left alive, hence eternal destruction is to me an oxymoron. You can say they are destroyed, never to live again. But you can't say they are destroyed continuously forever and at the same time say they die and will never live again. When they are destroyed, they are terminated or as some say annihilated. There's no need to frame this death in some dark eternal realm, it is in a time frame happening instantly, as fast as a piece of paper burns. See, the word aeon in this case means a lifetime, an age -- not forever and therefore an age-during destruction. Ok, they are forever without God if you will. Well, my take on it.
 
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strangertoo

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I am not a spiritist. I don't believe our bodies are inhabited by our spirit. When a person dies, they have no spirit. Spirit has to do with the living, not the dead.
If you have something more specific, we can talk about it.

You have it backwards ... the spirit creates the soul [life] ...

to understand this one must realise that God is spirit, not flesh :-

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

thus the creator is spirit, not a man ... can BECOME a man , create a man, but the flesh is TRANSIENT, temporal, temporary ... the spirit of a man always returns to God , is of God ...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

the creator is endless, and has no beginning, unlike our bodies, unlike our universe which also is created by the spirit and ends...

thus as the universe ends, all that exists is spirit, the creator , endless....

and we are made in God's image, spirit ... we are not what we see, our endlessness, our immortality , is not of the body since the universe and our bodies ENDS ... we are of spirit, that is then our destination when our body ends , to return to God...

but God returns the spirit to physical life UNTIL the body perfects Love in life, keeps freeing the body of sin by death , resurrecting by means of the spirit until men decide to try Love and find out that being whole in life is better than being in conflict with their spirit by sin against others...

thus it is the spirit which is really what we are, the body is just one of endless number of creations by the spirit... all of which begin and thus also end... only the spirit, that which creates , is endless, not the creations...

this one can even learn from the spirit , by ceasing sin to be Loving as Jesus commands the saints to do in this life -John 16:13 , Heb 8:10-11 ... the creator will even teach this creation about the creator... once we stop abusing others with sin against them...

and this is the only way one can be saved to endlessness of the spirit, there is no other way, so life and death are designed to persuade all men to try Love instead of sin in the END of life ... the 'life' of the spirit is endless creation of worlds, do not get trapped into thinking that the end of this world is the end of being :-

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

and the new earth is righteous to God's law of Love... all know the creator there , God dwells with man because we choose Love , sin we leave behind...forgotten

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

and the final baptism of fire in the lake of fire is the end of that world and that second heaven, the third heaven has no physical third earth ...

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
...

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter


1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
 
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Fascinated With God

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You have it backwards ... the spirit creates the soul [life] ...
Then what is God's soul? Is that God's "life" too?

to understand this one must realise that God is spirit, not flesh :-

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God is not limited to the spirit. God has a soul to: Leviticus 26:11, Leviticus 26:30, Isaiah 42:1, Zechariah 11:8, Matthew 12:18, Hebrews 10:38.
 
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Soulgazer

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Stuff that might be true about the afterlife.

1. You either go to Heaven or Hell right when you die.
2. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you go to Heaven or Hell.
3. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you get resurrected to live on the new earth or you go to hell.
4. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you get resurrected to live on the new earth or you get annihilated.
5. Something else?

Please tell me about the two different things that can happen after death, because I'm super confused. Different people say different things. :/

Yup.

I think what we need to do here is look at the big picture. What God wants for the "afterlife" is people who are good loving neighbors. It's a discipline to become that type of person on the inside. That's our job. What happens if we can't? Let God worry about that, we have our own job to do.
 
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Fascinated With God

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You don't tell me what my belief is. I tell YOU. I have read your posts and you show a complete lack of comprehension of the subject matter and you make presumptuous statements that underline your lack of understanding. If this type of conversation upsets you, then you should probably find a forum room that is less upsetting. This room is called Unorthodox Theology. You clearly have no training in this area. How you could of presumed 'materialism' out of my statement beggars belief. Scripture...that's what you stand on in this room...not your own reflection and the sound of your own voice. :cool:
Denying the existence of the spirit and the soul apart from the body seems to me to clearly satisfy the definition of materialism. If not, then how does your view differ from materialism?

As to my lacking the qualifications to talk about unorthodox theology, what kind of "training" is required? How do you get "training" in unorthodox theology? :) Debating in the UT forum does not require adhering to unorthodox theology. There is no rule here saying that you can't argue for orthodox theology in the UT forum. There is a rule saying that you can't argue unorthodox theology in the General Theology section, either for or against, but there is no reverse rule of that nature here saying that orthodox theology is forbidden here.



.
 
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rdcast

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You really are out of your depth here. What I quoted was the process as described in scripture. Your personal rationalisation is exactly the nonsense that brought the church into all the heresy that it is trapped in now.
Man became a living soul....Go look it up yourself and keep the rubbish out of the conversation. :cool:

You obviously have no answer to the charge of materialism, which your belief clearly is. Instead all you have are taunts in reply.

You don't tell me what my belief is. I tell YOU. I have read your posts and you show a complete lack of comprehension of the subject matter and you make presumptuous statements that underline your lack of understanding. If this type of conversation upsets you, then you should probably find a forum room that is less upsetting. This room is called Unorthodox Theology. You clearly have no training in this area. How you could of presumed 'materialism' out of my statement beggars belief. Scripture...that's what you stand on in this room...not your own reflection and the sound of your own voice. :cool:

Denying the existence of the spirit and the soul apart from the body seems to me to clearly satisfy the definition of materialism. If not, then how does your view differ from materialism?

As to my lacking the qualifications to talk about unorthodox theology, what kind of "training" is required? How do you get "training" in unorthodox theology? :) Debating in the UT forum does not require adhering to unorthodox theology. There is no rule here saying that you can't argue for orthodox theology in the UT forum. There is a rule saying that you can't argue unorthodox theology in the General Theology section, either for or against, but there is no reverse rule of that nature here saying that orthodox theology is forbidden here..
Suggestion:

:groupray: PM your unseemly discourse with one another :groupray:
 
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strangertoo

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like scripture says, no-one gets to the kingdom of God without spirit baptism, and God will not baptise anyone still a sinner...

so , to find God's Truth from God one either stops sinning in this life and relies on grace to free one from guilt over past sins once one stops, else one is gonna die to have sin removed that way [Rom 6:7]

but few find the first way , works out at about one in three million alive today are saints of God... so chances are you will never even meet a saint and will die a sinner not knowing God at all... unless one has the will to stop sinning and does so... then God will teach all Truth, absolute pure incorruptible Truth , all of it, now...

but one cannot get this any other way, not from sinners because despite what they claim they are all telling different stories and very clearly then don't know...

one can get some Truth from scripture because before it was messed with in editing and mistranslation and fitting to interpretations of groups of sinners it was the witness of saints and prophets of God ... but equally it is used to mislead sinners worldwide , folks refuse to read it all to find out from its duplication of its messages what has been messed with ...

surely it's more sense to stop sinning because no-one is saved until long after they do anyway... even when turning to Love folks instead of abusing them with sin against them, one still has to PROVE one's Love in trial against Satan's temptations to sin... it all takes time... three baptisms in scripture, all required for salvation, no-one excluded .... and that truly is the only way as God says... not much point carryng on your way then... just as well to work out the method beforehand...but few do ...

as for deciding to say what one believes BEFORE God tells one all truth in spirit baptism... well, what point ?

note that all folks are told all truth by God Himself eventually, so what point imagining beforehand or listening to sinners who cannot know God or Jesus ?
 
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rdcast

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like scripture says, no-one gets to the kingdom of God without spirit baptism, and God will not baptise anyone still a sinner...

so , to find God's Truth from God one either stops sinning in this life and relies on grace to free one from guilt over past sins once one stops, else one is gonna die to have sin removed that way [Rom 6:7]

but few find the first way , works out at about one in three million alive today are saints of God... so chances are you will never even meet a saint and will die a sinner not knowing God at all... unless one has the will to stop sinning and does so... then God will teach all Truth, absolute pure incorruptible Truth , all of it, now...

but one cannot get this any other way, not from sinners because despite what they claim they are all telling different stories and very clearly then don't know...

one can get some Truth from scripture because before it was messed with in editing and mistranslation and fitting to interpretations of groups of sinners it was the witness of saints and prophets of God ... but equally it is used to mislead sinners worldwide , folks refuse to read it all to find out from its duplication of its messages what has been messed with ...

surely it's more sense to stop sinning because no-one is saved until long after they do anyway... even when turning to Love folks instead of abusing them with sin against them, one still has to PROVE one's Love in trial against Satan's temptations to sin... it all takes time... three baptisms in scripture, all required for salvation, no-one excluded .... and that truly is the only way as God says... not much point carryng on your way then... just as well to work out the method beforehand...but few do ...

as for deciding to say what one believes BEFORE God tells one all truth in spirit baptism... well, what point ?

note that all folks are told all truth by God Himself eventually, so what point imagining beforehand or listening to sinners who cannot know God or Jesus ?
Christ was baptized in water.
 
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PureDose

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Stuff that might be true about the afterlife.

1. You either go to Heaven or Hell right when you die.
2. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you go to Heaven or Hell.
3. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you get resurrected to live on the new earth or you go to hell.
4. You're asleep in the grave until judgement day, then you get resurrected to live on the new earth or you get annihilated.
5. Something else?

Please tell me about the two different things that can happen after death, because I'm super confused. Different people say different things. :/

What do you think?

When one of the apostles spoke of what awaits Christians they said they "tasted of the Age to come".

A very popular idea is that Heaven will not come to earth, but people rise up to Heaven *literally* and *literally* live above the earth.

Though, maybe that is just the Jehovah Witnesses and cartoonists.
 
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rdcast

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What do you think?

When one of the apostles spoke of what awaits Christians they said they "tasted of the Age to come".

A very popular idea is that Heaven will not come to earth, but people rise up to Heaven *literally* and *literally* live above the earth.

Though, maybe that is just the Jehovah Witnesses and cartoonists.
She abandon this thread(she started) long ago. No hope she'll reply
 
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strangertoo

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Christ was baptized in water.

yes indeed

and then he was baptized of the spirit

and then he was baptized with 'fire', tempted by the devil in trial of his faith in Love , showed he would not stop Loving to follow Satan's wily suggestions for sin against man...
 
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rdcast

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yes indeed

and then he was baptized of the spirit

and then he was baptized with 'fire', tempted by the devil in trial of his faith in Love , showed he would not stop Loving to follow Satan's wily suggestions for sin against man...
water, spirit, fire

He didn't follow Satan
 
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strangertoo

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What do you think?

When one of the apostles spoke of what awaits Christians they said they "tasted of the Age to come".

A very popular idea is that Heaven will not come to earth, but people rise up to Heaven *literally* and *literally* live above the earth.

Though, maybe that is just the Jehovah Witnesses and cartoonists.

discussion, undoing the confusions inherent in that, [post #33] ,here :-

http://www.christianforums.com/t7684566-4/
 
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AwakenedOne

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God is not created my friend, God is endless spirit , beginning-less too ... the spirit of a man is given by God so is uncreated too...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

nothing can return to spirit that is not spirit , not physical, not created, endless

the soul of God is a manifestation , a physical life, of Jesus and teh sons of God filled with the holy spirit that is God [because their Love is perfected in life] all physical life , all souls, end at death but can be resurrected or manifested back again from the spirit ... just like creation :-

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

note that it is the spirit that exists first, the body only BECOMES the soul by means of the endless spirit from God... the soul [physical life] is not endless...

indeed Jesus told us that he showed us God by his Love ... Love is simply the manifestation of the undividedness of the spirit, taht God is one and so we are one in Love...
indeed the spirit can have no physical pleasure , Jesus is the interface/mediator to the physical, manifested soul whose spirit is that of God , as with all sons of God... [by spirit baptism]
Hades is not physical, it is just a poetic construct because the soul is always re-created until it is translated free of death... so there is apparent continuity of soul by means of the spirit, but in fact the soul is just life and begins when the spirit enters the body , thus :-

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

note that the otehrwise lifeless man BECOMES a soul , comes to LIFE ,by means of what God gave, spirit... at death the spirit returns to God and the body returns to the earth for recycling , the soul ends as it began ... but we can speak of it 'going to hades/sheol' in a poetic sense as though it had some existence in death, but there is only the body and the spirit after life [soul] has ceased... so as many astral travellers have found, there is no physical 'hell' ... the body returns to the planet and the spirit to God when the soul ends , then the soul [life] begins again by the spirit animating a body in the new earth... as if teh soul were stored in some mythical hades, but there is no such place in physicality, it is just a poetic way of speaking...

all souls are resurrected , Jesus says so -Rev 20:13 and all rsurrected souls are free of sin [Rom 6:7] and born again by spirit baptismm of ALL flesh -Joel 2;28... so there are no souls that are not born again, but most souls are born again in the kingdom come, not in this earth... few find the way now [Matt 7:14] and the many are destroyed [matt 7:13] but later countless many are saved [Rev 7:9-10] not just the few saved at Jesus' return then...

your mistake is in not realising that all are unbelievers originally [excepting Jesus] ... all men can change from sinning to righteousness as the few do in this earth, the many later in the kingdom come... check it out, do not condemn as foolish sinner do , God's way is Love, not condemnation , his mercy endures , it does not end in this earth as foolish sinners claim rather bizarrely condemning themselves [as hypocrites too]... God does not take their delusion seriously, a sinner is a sinner and obviously an unbeliever in Love, in God ... all sinners are treated the same , even the hypocrites of mass religion of sinners worldwide...

you seem very confused ... dead people alive , living dead? ... dead living ? .... dead spirits ? ...

the spirit is not subject to death, God cannot die and there is no 'other spirit' but God ... the spirit is endless and all that is endless is God, spirit...

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me

Read it again:-

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

the spirit entered the body and it BECAME a soul, a physical life.... the soul was not there before but was created by the spirit animating the body ... without the spirit , or without the body, there would be NO SOUL... the soul is the life of the body, it is not an object in itself , it is simply the life of a body... a property of a body , life... there is no soul without the body, no soul without the spirit ...

you have not explained yourself at all, but the salvation of all men is promised by Jesus, not me , it's not my concept, but God's ... Love cannot leave anyone behind ... it;s God that creates universes and time enough for all men to see Love is better than sin as a way of life and so all are saved by believing Jesus eventually... it is not for you to say that God's mercy ends against the Truth of scripture :-

Psalms 100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

not for you to say that folks who do not believe in Jesus now or lived before he came are condemned , when all God does is judge who is ready to love who still needs more persuading of the Truth...

you presume too much by listening to sinners, but sinners cannot know god and all sinners are unbelievers in Love by definition, unbelievers in God no matter what they merely say...

LOLOL... there's a wealth of difference between death of the spirit [impossible] and this figurative sense of being 'spiritually dead' because one has not been made to shed one's emptiness from sin IN LIFE ... c'mon, you are just playing with words now... this does not refer to any real death, it's just a way of speaking, not literal death....


the soul is just the life, so indeed all folks alive have life, a soul... but you ignore that God will baptise ALL flesh [in the new earth] - Joel 2:28...

You do not have understanding. I'm wondering if you actually have the Holy Spirit -- since He teaches the truth and counsels us.

the bible does not agree with your ideas , as I have shown... and you thus are the one without understanding by disagreeing with scripture and following the teachings of sinners , not waiting for God to teach ... and God only teaches those who stop sinning , very few in this earth... countless many in the kingdom come , God's first opportunity to baptise all flesh alive , so the many can at last learn that Love is a better way by the example and leadership of the saints and Jesus ... but if you will not accept scripture then we have nothing really on basis of which to discuss
What God teaches has no mistakes friend... if you make mistakes it is because you are not being taught by God...

I have already shown that it is you whose words are confused, and I do not think you even know what spiritual discernment is ...God never makes mistakes my friend...

haven't met anyone yet who doesn't follow sinners instead of waiting to be taught by God after stopping sinning ... thus you would do well to remove the plank from your own eyes first before seeking to remove specks you think you see in others ... your words are far from scripture and far from clear... see clearly from God first as only then are you fit to teach sinners about giving up sin to receive spirit baptism... but as for the rest of it, you do not even realise that those under grace do not teach those under grace -heb 8:8-12 , which is the actual new covenant ... so how do you think you know when you do not even understand the new covenant ????

nay my frend, save your judgement for yourself, no saint judges anyone now , only sinners do what you're now doing ... and so it's hypocrisy , no sinner knows God or Jesus , as the saints witness...

again presumptions which are very revealing... do you not know how many saints there are with Jesus when he leaves [Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8] ... then consider how long it is since Jesus came , and the congregation of saints never died out... so there can be only about two thousand saints following Jesus today... and they scattered worldwide looking for the descendants of the House of Israel amongst all nations... meet in twos or possibly threes occasionally , ever since all seven churches [buildings] of God were destroyed by Rome when it usurped the name of Christ for its pagan religion which will spread worldwide -Rev 13:3-4 ...modern 'christianity' is far too large to be the church of God ... it is the many of Rev 13:3-4, the many destroyed in this earth for sin [Matt 7:13] ... hence its lies about grace, the new covenant, God, Christ, holy days, rituals, etc... so it's revealing that you repeat them... because you read or listen to sinners... and ignore much the saints say in scripture because of the teachings of sinners... makes no sense... if you stop sinning and Love then God will teach you in good time, no need to listen to any man ...[no not me either, God will teach anyone who simply Loves, having thus ceased abusing folks with sin]

those who believe in Jesus have to act on their belief else they are fooling themselves :-

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

belief in God is belief in Love which no sinner can claim because sin is unloving abuse ... if one believes in God and Jesus one cannot sin any more ...so there are only saints, no sinners at all, in Jesus' church [although scarcely a church in the way sinner's gather to listen to sinners...]

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

simply count how many saints there are to understand the scripture , that most men are under great delusion 2Thess 2... and the characteristic of the deluded is sin, sinners follow Satan, not Jesus, and Satan is a liar... so his worldwide churches of sinners are false , the common teachings of mass Christianity of sinners are false by scripture and by the holy spirit... so easy to show...

the unjust are resurrected to life in the flesh my friend :-

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

all are freed from death and hell [Rev 20:13] and no-one dies a second death if they do not sin in the kingdom come ... we know few are saved at Jesus' return and the many die [Matt 7:13-14] but countless many are later saved ...after death then, even though the many died for sin... the wages of sin are only death, because it frees men from sin so they can be righteous in the new earth, as Peter tells us they will be ...

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

so the countless many stop sinning in the new earth, live righteously and although they were destroyed [matt 7:13] they are saved at judgement day by works after death, righteous works, Love ... I don't see why you believe sinners instead of this scripture ... and certainly anyone who sins after death frees them from sin will need a second death to free them from sin again... it is the rule, the wages of sin are still death, some men do not learn to love even in two lives, but none take more than three... Jesus promises all men will accept him eventually and God denies death after the second death....

Jesus guarantees that they will accept him and so be saved even later than the many saved at the great white throne judgement ...

God's mercy endures and Jesus promises, why do you not believe Jesus when you say you do ?

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

other witnesses :-

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Preach it!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true. (Revelation 20:14-21:5)

That's my view of the afterlife.
 
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BornOfWaterAndSpirit

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Neither one. Christians go directly to Heaven since the atonement already occurred, and Paradise part of Sheol is emptied of Christians now. Sinners still go to Hades, and are tormented. At resurrection (which is during Second Coming), all bodies will be resurrected and made immortal, the righteous will inherit eternal life in Heaven, while the wicked will inherit eternal punishment in Gehenna (also known as Hell).
 
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