Why is wisdom referred to as "she" in proverbs?

[sunlover1]

that's what's so intriguing.....why refer to wisdom as "she"? What i'm meditating on, is why God Himself refers to wisdom as "she"?

Holy Spirit in the OT is referred to in the feminine gender too!

I think it's quite obvious why He'd refer to wisdom as female

 

[Thekla]

I can see it as Christ, even Christ is the Rock Petra (feminine noun) of God too right?

 

[brinny]

ok.....me mind is not processing.....i still don't get it

 

[Chesterton]

I think anything short of God which is too expansive, too subtle and too big for the mind will be described as a "she":

Wisdom = she
Large ships = she
Planet earth, and nature itself = she.

QV: http://www.christianforums.com/t7487690-4/

 

[Thekla]

ok.....me mind is not processing.....i still don't get it

Try this:

both petra and sophia are feminine nouns.( Both can refer to Jesus Christ.) If a sentence uses a pronoun to stand in for the noun petra or sophia, the pronoun must be feminine. If the pronoun is masculine, then the reader will look for a male noun, but not petra or sophia.

For example:

I liked the actress in the play by Joe Smith; he is really good !

In this sentence, there is an actress (female noun) and a playwrite (here using a name or proper noun). The pronoun after the semicolon is "he" (male). Therefore, the pronoun must refer to Joe Smith. To make the pronoun refer to the actress, I have to use the pronoun "she".

I liked the actress in the play by Joe Smith; she is really good !

So, in Greek, if I use the pronoun "he" in a sentence - or later statement referring to a sentence - with either petra or sophia, it cannot refer to either petra or sophia. It can only refer to a masculine noun.

I may not have explained well - sorry if that is the case !

 

[Thekla]

Try this:

The play had an actor and an actress; he was really good !

In this sentence, the pronoun "he" refers to the actor because the pronoun "he" and the noun "actor" are both grammatically male.

The play had an actor and an actress; she was really good !

In this sentence, the pronoun "she" must refer to the actress (female noun).

If a male pronoun is used in a sentence with either sophia or petra, it cannot refer to either petra or sophia because these nouns are grammatically female.

(It would be like saying:
My sister is coming to visit; I am worried because he is late.)

 

[Fireinfolding]

ok.....me mind is not processing.....i still don't get it

Sis I have been looking at this for awhile myself and I dont think our carnal brains can wrap out heads around it, I cant either but spiritual things arent easy too and I make no claims to understanding it myself but I enjoy searching it out, I always find in time he gives you more and the male and female in Christ after the flesh doesnt help but maybe after a figure. I highly doubt things I think I get at FIRST now so dont be so hard on yourself, enjoy your questions more then having the answers you might have more enjoyment in the mystery of God in Christ.

I was looking at these a few years back and set them aside to return to them, can be played both ways

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning ( archē feminine noun ) and the end, the first and the last.

Prov 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning ( re'shiyth feminine noun ) of his way, before his works of old.

Even from "the beginning" (masculine) here..

Prov 8:23 I was set up from everlasting (owlam masculine noun), from the beginning (ro'sh masculine noun ) or ever the earth was

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 5:3 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.


1 Cr 1:24 "Christ IS the wisdom ( sophia / feminine noun) of God"


The second part of the verse

Prov 8:22 The LORD possessed **me** in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

"me in the beginning" re'shiyth ( feminine noun)

1) first, beginning, best, chief
a) beginning
b) first
c) chief
d) choice part

And yet he says...

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning ( feminine noun) and the end, the first and the last. (so either or here)

possessed me

qanah (verb)

1) to get, acquire, create, buy, possess
a) (Qal)
1) to get, acquire, obtain (Heb 1:4)
a) of God originating, creating, redeeming His people
1) possessor
b) of Eve acquiring
c) of acquiring knowledge, wisdom
2) to buy
b) (Niphal) to be bought
c) (Hiphil) to cause to possess


This threw me in respects to "created" so I was looking for an example of how this can be caught, and I think I can catch it in one of the three examples here... "we put on" Christ

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

We "put on" The Lord Jesus

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ

Here it says we "put on" the new man

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him


He was before all things, the world made through him

Prov 8:23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.


Set up

1) to pour out, pour, offer, cast
a) (Qal)
1) to pour out
2) to cast metal images
3) to anoint (a king)
b) (Niphal) to be anointed
c) (Piel) to pour out (as a libation)
d) (Hiphil) to pour out libations
e) (Hophal) to be poured out
2) to set, install
a) (Qal) to install
b) (Niphal) to be installed


Isaih 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death


Anointed here...

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Set here...

Luke 2:34 Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Thats as far as I got, still thinking on these things just like you

I just roll them around from various angels till they start "sticking" at some point (whenever that is)

 

[brinny]

THanks, but i'm wondering why a "she" tense even germinated at all?

 

[ebia]

I find this intriguing and it boggles me mind.....that "wisdom" which was there at the foundation of the world is referred to as "she"......

feedback would be most appreciated.....

(just a side note)...anybody ever read the Geneva Bible?

Why not? Nobody blinks an eye at all times God is personified in the masculine - why should we bat an eye when that's balanced out by the Wisdom/Word being personified in the feminine? Remembering that its humanity - male AND female - that is the image of God.

 

[98cwitr]

who made words what they are?

 

[Thekla]

Try this:

The play had an actor and an actress; he was really good !

In this sentence, the pronoun "he" refers to the actor because the pronoun "he" and the noun "actor" are both grammatically male.

The play had an actor and an actress; she was really good !

In this sentence, the pronoun "she" must refer to the actress (female noun).

If a male pronoun is used in a sentence with either sophia or petra, it cannot refer to either petra or sophia because these nouns are grammatically female.

(It would be like saying:
My sister is coming to visit; I am worried because he is late.)

Now, using the above sentence as a starting point, try this:

The play had an actor and an actress; it was good.

What does the pronoun "it" refer to ?

It cannot refer to actress (female noun) or actor (male noun), so "it" must refer to the word "play" ( a neuter noun).

Sorry, just thought of this, so thought to add it

 

[brinny]

thanks, but why would a diversion from "He" occur, even start? Like Jesus is referred to (without change) as "He"......that did not, does not change...even to this day...

Where and why did a "she" get inserted? Solomon wrote most of Proverbs, didn't he? And wasn't the wisdom God gifted him with, from God, and therefore the "she" that he inserted into what he wrote regarding wisdom, from God? my question is, why would God refer to wisdom as a "she"?

 

[razeontherock]

I find this intriguing and it boggles me mind.....that "wisdom" which was there at the foundation of the world is referred to as "she"......

I read this to / with my younger Son out of The Message while he was quite young, and he got SUCH a kick out of it being translated "Lady Wisdom ..."

This pre-dates Gen 1:1

 

[razeontherock]

Its simply grammar - you can't say in Greek "he" as a pronoun for a female noun. Just as you can't use the pronoun "she" for the noun "man".

This was written in Hebrew, not Greek

 

[razeontherock]

thanks, but why would a diversion from "He" occur, even start? my question is, why would God refer to wisdom as a "she"?

Nobody else has said it, so I will. All the chauvinistic stuff is an affront to G-d. He made all things good, and that did not exclude the female intellect. The depth of this question you raise has yet to really ripple through our society, but it's quite clear in the Word of G-d. Consider:

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Why should G-d hide His feminine attributes?

 

[Thekla]

This was written in Hebrew, not Greek

We use the LXX OT, so my mind goes to that. But, grammatical gendering of nouns and their associated pronouns are pretty consistent (as in my actor, actress, play example sentence in English).

(IIRC, spirit is female in Hebrew, neuter in Greek).

The scriptures were written into existing language/s - the content of terms was modified somewhat (as in John's use of the term Logos) - but I am not aware of any grammatical changes.

 

[brinny]

this has intrigued me since starting to read a chapter a day of Proverbs a couple years ago.......i didn't pay any attention at first....but then one day, i just noticed it all of a sudden......and it has intrigued me since....

still boggles me mind...wisdom is never described as a "he" in Proverbs....."she" shouts from the housetops..."

 

[Seeking Him]

God has feminine characteristics. Isn't El Shaddai considered the nurturing mother side of God.

 

[brinny]

God has feminine characteristics. Isn't El Shaddai considered the nurturing mother side of God.

yet we are told there is no male or female in heaven

 

[Hentenza]

I find this intriguing and it boggles me mind.....that "wisdom" which was there at the foundation of the world is referred to as "she"......

feedback would be most appreciated.....

(just a side note)...anybody ever read the Geneva Bible?

My wife has a lot more wisdom than I.



Yes. I've read the Geneva bible.