The death penalty

[david_x]

Maybe that is whty God originally invoked the death penalty for bearing false witness. I wonder how trials would go if the witnesses and, especially, the lawyers were afraid for their lives to lie in court. I'll bet we would see a lot more truth in the legal system.

or a lot more dead lawyers.

 

[jiminpa]

or a lot more dead lawyers.

Failing to see a downside.

 

[Mela Monkey]

I personally am completely against the death penalty.

My reasoning is..

What gives humans the right to say that another human has done something so horribly wrong, that they don't deserve life?
You can at least have someone do life in prison.

 

[Bro_Sam]

I personally am completely against the death penalty.

My reasoning is..

What gives humans the right to say that another human has done something so horribly wrong, that they don't deserve life?

What gives God the right to ordain governments to carry out capital punishment?

 

[Mela Monkey]

What gives God the right to ordain governments to carry out capital punishment?

Well I don't really think that's right either, but it's an alternative to death.

Also, I don't think society would be willing to let criminals, who commit serial murders and whatever else, have low prison time.
Like when a guy recently killed 4 cops over here in washington, people got mad at Mike Huckabee because he had let the guy out of prison early.

 

[Bro_Sam]

Well I don't really think that's right either, but it's an alternative to death.

So then, you believe that God was wrong and did not have the right to do so?

 

[Mela Monkey]

So then, you believe that God was wrong and did not have the right to do so?

No, i'm saying humans do not have the right to do so.

God did condemn people to death in the old testament, but do you think he still works like that? I've always been taught that he doesn't condemn people for their sins anymore, because Jesus died so we wouldn't have to.

 

[Bro_Sam]

No, i'm saying humans do not have the right to do so.

By saying that humans do not have the right to do so, you're saying that God does not have the right to give humans the right to do so.

God did condemn people to death in the old testament, but do you think he still works like that?

Do I think Romans 13 is true? Yes, I do.

I've always been taught that he doesn't condemn people for their sins, anymore because Jesus died so we wouldn't have to.

It isn't condemning them for their sins. It's punishing them for their crimes.

 

[Mela Monkey]

By saying that humans do not have the right to do so, you're saying that God does not have the right to give humans the right to do so.

Well yeah I guess you could say he gives us the right to do anything, because of free will, but does that make it right?

 

[Bro_Sam]

Well yeah I guess you could say he gives us the right to do anything, because of free will, but does that make it right?

Yes. If God ordains something and tells us to do it, then it's right for us to do it.

Very bizzare that I'd have to explain that to somebody with a Christian icon.

 

[Mela Monkey]

Yes. If God ordains something and tells us to do it, then it's right for us to do it.

Yes, I agree with that, but do you think he tell us that "so and so" deserves to be put to death because of what they did? I personally don't think he would. Because to me it seems that goes against the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill."

 

[Bro_Sam]

Yes, I agree with that, but do you think he tell us that "so and so" deserves to be put to death because of what they did?

Yes, He tells us so repeatedly, not least of which in the passage I already cited for you.

I personally don't think he would.

But the Bible already tells us that He does.

Because to me it seems that goes against the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill."

The sixth commandment isn't "thou shalt not kill", but "thou shalt do no murder".

Your pastor should be ashamed of himself.

 

[Mela Monkey]

Well whatever, I have nothing else to add to why I believe what I believe.

And btw, my pastor has nothing to do with why I believe this

 

[I-can-see]

I do not like the death sentence because it leaves no room for forgiveness or repentence. So, you may have just decided that persons eternal fate for them in a way. Kinda sucks.

 

[Bro_Sam]

I do not like the death sentence because it leaves no room for forgiveness or repentence. So, you may have just decided that persons eternal fate for them in a way. Kinda sucks.

I'll ask you the same question: do you believe that God has the authority to ordain capital punishment?

Are you an open theist?

 

[Macrina]

I find it helpful to remember the context in which the ancient Hebrews received the Law -- they were a nomadic people, without the capacity for lifelong incarceration that is now available to most modern peoples. In that society, the options for criminal justice were different from the options we have today.

To my mind, of course God was justified in ordaining the death penalty as part of the Law. However, that does not mean that we are required to exercise it today, nor that it is the best option for our current society. We can imprison people in a way which was impossible in an ancient nomadic society.

We have the ability to offer a measure of grace to someone who deserves death; why would we, who have ourselves received grace, seek the death penalty instead of life imprisonment? Shall we not use our freedom to choose a measure of mercy, sparing the convict a most extreme punishment which, while not forbidden in scripture, certainly is not required?

 

[Mela Monkey]

Hey Brother Sam, I think we started off on the wrong foot.

Which parts of Romans 13 are you talking about? Or are you talking about the whole chapter?

 

[Bro_Sam]

Hey Brother Sam, I think we started off on the wrong foot.

Which parts of Romans 13 are you talking about? Or are you talking about the whole chapter?

vv. 1-4

 

[I-can-see]

Yes, in the Law given to Israel, there is the death penalty for a few things. Eye for an Eye and Tooth for a Tooth. However, when Jesus came he abolished these things and instructing us to "turn the other cheek". That does not mean you gotta let people walk over you, it simply means that we must be forgiving. Since we all have been forgiven. We are to reflect God's Light to this world. To do so we must treat others as the Lord has treated us. With love and forgiveness.

Judge not lest you be judged.

That was from Mathew 7:1-2

Judging is playing the role of the judge in your heart.

 

[lawtonfogle]

The sixth commandment isn't "thou shalt not kill", but "thou shalt do no murder".

Your pastor should be ashamed of himself.

Not really. That is the most common mistake I have ever seen in Christian theology, and is more the fault of certain Bible translations that incorrectly say 'do not kill'. And the way people can hold that the 6th commandment says 'do not kill' and yet also hold that there was a death penalty for a number of things (such as homosexuality) back in the Jewish culture and not see how these views conflict just amazes me.