Ellen White stated that Lucifer was A) once an archangel B) a covering cherub C) stood next to God and D) was highly exalted. My argument proves, without a doubt, that according to Ellen White, Lucifer was an archangel. As in Lucifer the archangel which sounds very similar to Michael the archangel, Gabriel the archangel, etc.
Originally Posted by
Luke 1,19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Originally Posted by
Ellen White, Lucifer's proximity to God
Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and was highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Lucifer, "son of the morning," was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. He stood in the presence of the great Creator
Ezekiel 28 (NASB):
12"Son of man, (
L)take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"
You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13"You were in (
M)Eden, the garden of God;
(
N)Every precious stone was your covering:
The (
O)ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your (
P)settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
14"
You were the (Q)anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there
You were on the holy (R)mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the (S)stones of fire.
15"You were (
T)blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until (
U)unrighteousness was found in you.
16"By the (
V)abundance of your trade
You were internally (
W)filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17"Your heart was lifted up because of your (
X)beauty;
You (
Y)corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before (
Z)kings,
That they may see you.
18"By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought (
AA)fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to (
AB)ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19"All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become (
AC)terrified
And you will cease to be (
AD)forever."'"
The anointed cherub who covers - check out the Ark of the Covenant - the covering cherubs were at the mercy seat of God.
Isaiah 14:12:
12"How you have (
O)fallen from heaven,
O (
P)
star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!
13"But you said in your heart,
'I will (
Q)ascend to heaven;
I will (
R)raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
14'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
(
S)I will make myself like the Most High.'
15"Nevertheless you (
T)will be thrust down to Sheol,
To the recesses of the pit.
16"Those who see you will gaze at you,
They will ponder over you, saying,
'Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17Who made the world like a (
U)wilderness
And overthrew its cities,
Who (
V)did not allow his prisoners to go home?'
Seems that Eleen calling Lucifer a covering cherub and such aligns with scripture.
And it seems the Catholic Catechism also agrees that sin entered the world through Satan:
2852 "A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies," Satan is "the deceiver of the whole world." Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be "freed from the corruption of sin and death."
You wrote:
Therefore, if Ellen states that Satan once stood in the presence of God and he was an archangel then Gabriel, who Sacred Scripture states stands in the presence of God is an archangel. As a Baptist I would assume you are familiar with Strong's #1043
This brings me to the Greek word "archaggelos" which is defined by Strong's # 743 as,
A cheif "what"? The Greek of the New Testament says an archangel is a head of angels, prince of angels or an "archANGLE". This is no different then saying a madman is a man who is crazy.
Gabriel IS an archangel.
Yep, I am familiar with Strongs. And I am also familiar with scripture.
And I see a difference between "an angel of the Lord" and "the Angel of the Lord". There is a difference between the Angel of the Lord in Exodus and the burning bush, and an angel of the Lord sent such ad Gabriel.
And there is a difference between
prince and
Prince of princes.
And a difference between archangel and the archangel...but it needs to be read in context in light of the whole message.
That was nice, you sent me to a Seventh-day Adventist apologist's website. Back in the day I got to chat with Mike a couple of times when I was running around with Mario Derkson. I did read his take on the Trinity. His apology for Michael the archangel is a spot-on for the apology offered by the Jehovah's Witnesses in their attempt to prove that Michael is Christ.
Not the same as jehovah Witnesses as they deny the eternal preexistence of Christ's diety and deny that He is oe essence with the Father. To them, Jesus is created from an angel and is "a god". That is different from the quote of Ellen's above and from the Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA.
Let's stay away from trying to question whether the SDA are Trinitarian or not, Pythons. And please do not try to align them with nonTrinitarians in your effort here to criticize Ellen White. The TOPIC is about Michael the Archangel'
BTW The quotes you are using Pythons are from 1869 and 1183 - yet comments by EGW in the 1900's support the view that Christ always was, and is the Second Person of a Godhead of 3 Pesons who are one
I mean no offense when I say you have not read enough. I am not misstating Ellen White. I do appreciate however the unswerving loyalty you've shown toward her defense.
I do not regard her positively, but what I see in your posts is a bias against her - it is not objective at all. You are exSDA and here to proselytze folks from the SDA church - that in itself colors your understanding of what she writes.
You wrote:
How about we let Ellen White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church state it?
Wonderful statement! The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the personality of either. THEY ARE ONE IN PURPOSE, IN MIND, IN CHARACTER BUT NOT IN PERSON. IT IS THUS THAT GOD AND CHRIST ARE ONE
And doesn't the Catholic Church view Christ as the Second Person in the Trinity? That there are 3 Persons, one essence?
Hasn't EW stated that the Holy Spirit was the thrid Person of the Godhead? That in Christ is the fullness of God?
The topic is NOT about whether the SDA are Trinitarian so please steer away from that.
Please, do me a favor, print out this post and take it to your Baptist clergy and have him test the things I've said - be sure to post the findings right here.
I don't need to run to the pastor - I have been studying stuff like this for decades.
While I personally do not view Michael the Archangel as a name of preIncarnate Christ, I do believe there are Christophanies in the OT where He is called the Angel of the Lord. The burning bush is one instance.
But that is not why I am posting. My goal is to keep this away from questioning the Trinitarianism of the SDA and away from rule violations.