Trinitarian question

[The Gregorian]

As most people in this forum accept the Nicene Creed, I suppose there are quite a few trinitarians here. Some of you believe in three seperate dieties in one form, or one diety with three bodies, or just one diety who only exists in one place at a time, but has gone through three stages (i.e. before Christ came to earth, he was the Father, then was born on earth as the son... at which time there was no God in heaven... then God died as the Son, and is now the holy spirit).

Which flavor of trinitarianism do you subscribe to and why? Also, does it bother anyone that most flavors of the trinity teach polytheism whereas the bible specifically states "There is for us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we are for him" then follows up to specify that Jesus is "Lord" rather than "God?"

(note: Yes, this question is loaded in order to start conversation. The intent is to have the different explanations of "the trinity" discussed side by side. I do not intend or encourage anyone to belittle any religion.)

 

[R3quiem]

As most people in this forum accept the Nicene Creed, I suppose there are quite a few trinitarians here. Some of you believe in three seperate dieties in one form, or one diety with three bodies, or just one diety who only exists in one place at a time, but has gone through three stages (i.e. before Christ came to earth, he was the Father, then was born on earth as the son... at which time there was no God in heaven... then God died as the Son, and is now the holy spirit).

Which flavor of trinitarianism do you subscribe to and why? Also, does it bother anyone that most flavors of the trinity teach polytheism whereas the bible specifically states "There is for us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we are for him" then follows up to specify that Jesus is "Lord" rather than "God?"

(note: Yes, this question is loaded in order to start conversation. The intent is to have the different explanations of "the trinity" discussed side by side. I do not intend or encourage anyone to belittle any religion.)

I think the Trinity may be a decent tool to trying to understand God. While I don't reject it, I don't put much stock in it. Jesus would have been more clear about how it works if it was truly necessary for us to understand it. He didn't even use the word "Trinity" in the Bible.

I can't know for sure what the truth about God is, so I can't disagree with anyone's interpretations of God. At most I can "highly doubt" them, but never discard.

 

[Hentenza]

Gregorian,
I am going to save you some headaches and reporting. The rules of this forum say:

The Nicene Theology forums are for discussion of orthodox Christian theology, as defined by the Nicene Creed. Topics which are ruled upon by the Creed (ie., the Trinitarian nature of God) are not up for discussion. While everyone is welcome to participate, and questions are fine, all debates should come from a Nicene perspective. There is to be no promotion of non-Nicene doctrines.

I would suggest that you take this discussion to the non-nicene areas.

 

[Oblio]

Gregorian,
I am going to save you some headaches and reporting. The rules of this forum say:

The Nicene Theology forums are for discussion of orthodox Christian theology, as defined by the Nicene Creed. Topics which are ruled upon by the Creed (ie., the Trinitarian nature of God) are not up for discussion. While everyone is welcome to participate, and questions are fine, all debates should come from a Nicene perspective. There is to be no promotion of non-Nicene doctrines.

I would suggest that you take this discussion to the non-nicene areas.

We agree again

Who said post 777 CF was all bad

 

[Yekcidmij]

1 God, 3 Persons, all 3 of which are God.

 

[Oblio]

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Trinity, One in essence and undivided.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Three in One.

 

[Hentenza]

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Trinity, One in essence and undivided.

Now this is really scary. We agree again.

 

[Oblio]

 

[The Gregorian]

I am going to save you some headaches and reporting. The rules of this forum say:

The Nicene Theology forums are for discussion of orthodox Christian theology, as defined by the Nicene Creed. Topics which are ruled upon by the Creed (ie., the Trinitarian nature of God) are not up for discussion. While everyone is welcome to participate, and questions are fine, all debates should come from a Nicene perspective. There is to be no promotion of non-Nicene doctrines.

I would suggest that you take this discussion to the non-nicene areas.

Aye... that's why I'm not giving my viewpoints. Maybe I phrased it wrong in the OP. I'm not saying any part is wrong, and I'm not debating. I'm asking for clarification:

The trinity as you see it... is it three beings? Is it one being with three forms at the same time? Or one being that changes between three forms depending on what role he's taking? Or are they three beings in one form?

If the Father came to earth to become manifest in the flesh, does that mean there was no Son before he existed on earth? Is it one being that was God, then became manifest in the flesh and then stopped being God to be the Christ (i.e. there was a Father, but no Son, then when the Son came down there was no Father)? Or when the Son came down, did God just make another one of himself?

I'm not saying any are wrong... I'm just asking which one you subscribe to because in my discussions I've been told that one of these is "how God is" and all others are absolutely false... unfortunately the same person will switch between quite a few of these explanations... then eventually leave off with "it's a divine mystery which we are not meant to understand."

So... more specific than "They are one." If they are "They" they aren't one. That's just how numbers work. If "they" were "one" ... "They" wouldn't be "one" and "another" and "a third" .... "they" would just be "that one." So which "they" do you think it is?

If you're unhappy with any of the above explanations, feel free to explain it in your own words... but please use complete thoughts... i.e. "They are three, yet infinitely one, undivided in divinity." That's a lot of words people string together which inherently don't fit together.

 

[MrSnow]

Really, there is only one Trinitarian theology. All the rest are not Trinitarian. Trinitarian theology is that there are three Persons who are all one essence. The Father, who is eternal and uncaused, eternally begets the Son, who is therefore eternal and of the same essence as the Father. The Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father, and is therefore eternal and of the same essence as the Father (and also of the Son). Sort of like a Thought speaking a Word on the power of a Breath.

The Father, Son, and Spirit are all unique Persons. However, they are all one and the same Divinity/Substance/Essence. Three Persons, One Divinity.

That is the only Trinitarianism. All other theologies are something else. If someone believes in three dieties, then that person is a Tritheist. If someone believes that God is one being who manifests himself in three different ways at different times, then that person is a modalist (God has three modes of existing). There are not multiple ways to be a Trinitarianist. Either you are or you aren't.

 

[Oblio]

The trinity as you see it... is it three beings? Is it one being with three forms at the same time? Or one being that changes between three forms depending on what role he's taking? Or are they three beings in one form?

No, No, No, and No.

 

[Oblio]

All other theologies are something else.

That something else would be called heresy

 

[Hentenza]

Aye... that's why I'm not giving my viewpoints. Maybe I phrased it wrong in the OP. I'm not saying any part is wrong, and I'm not debating. I'm asking for clarification:

The trinity as you see it... is it three beings? Is it one being with three forms at the same time? Or one being that changes between three forms depending on what role he's taking? Or are they three beings in one form?

If the Father came to earth to become manifest in the flesh, does that mean there was no Son before he existed on earth? Is it one being that was God, then became manifest in the flesh and then stopped being God to be the Christ (i.e. there was a Father, but no Son, then when the Son came down there was no Father)? Or when the Son came down, did God just make another one of himself?

I'm not saying any are wrong... I'm just asking which one you subscribe to because in my discussions I've been told that one of these is "how God is" and all others are absolutely false... unfortunately the same person will switch between quite a few of these explanations... then eventually leave off with "it's a divine mystery which we are not meant to understand."

So... more specific than "They are one." If they are "They" they aren't one. That's just how numbers work. If "they" were "one" ... "They" wouldn't be "one" and "another" and "a third" .... "they" would just be "that one." So which "they" do you think it is?

If you're unhappy with any of the above explanations, feel free to explain it in your own words... but please use complete thoughts... i.e. "They are three, yet infinitely one, undivided in divinity." That's a lot of words people string together which inherently don't fit together.

Trinity is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God, the fact that there are 3 coexistent, co-eternal persons that make up God. Understand that this is NOT in any way suggesting 3 Gods. The Trinity is 1 God made up of 3 persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, which are of one essence and undivided.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

As most people in this forum accept the Nicene Creed, I suppose there are quite a few trinitarians here. Some of you believe in three seperate dieties in one form, or one diety with three bodies, or just one diety who only exists in one place at a time, but has gone through three stages (i.e. before Christ came to earth, he was the Father, then was born on earth as the son... at which time there was no God in heaven... then God died as the Son, and is now the holy spirit).

No, you have several false and erroneous notions of this concept. This well known type of erroneous statement is described as the "Strawman fallacy". It is most frequently used by people who are too lazy to do the proper scholarship necessary to find the true facts. You can find out more about it by doing a search for 'strawman fallacy'.

 

[Tinker Grey]

No, you have several false and erroneous notions of this concept. This well know type of erroneous argument is known as the "Strawman fallacy". It is most frequently used by people who are too lazy to do the proper scholarship necessary to find the true facts. You can find out more about it by doing a search for 'strawman fallacy'.

Strange. I didn't think he was arguing at all. Merely asking you to define your beliefs.

 

[BrBob]

I believe we are made in the image of God. Three in one. I am my body, I am my soul and I am my spirit. The three are one. BUT the difference between us and God (and this is where the analogy breaks down) is that God, as Father, Son and Holy Spirit each is God in his own right, without anything subtracted from His Being.

The Trinity is something that is too Godlike for us to totally grasp with our finite minds. That's why faith is involved, not just intellectual understanding. I'm looking forward to being able to understand more clearly when I get to be with Him in Heaven!

Bob
Spearfish, SD

 

[JimfromOhio]

Tell me how it is that in this room there are three candles and but one light, and I will explain to you the mode of the divine existence. John Wesley

 

[SeraphimSarov]

I think the Trinity may be a decent tool to trying to understand God. While I don't reject it, I don't put much stock in it. Jesus would have been more clear about how it works if it was truly necessary for us to understand it. He didn't even use the word "Trinity" in the Bible.

You're Roman Catholic...?

I second everything Oblio said.

 

[PaladinValer]

Trinity:

Three distinct Persons equally and eternally of the same One Unique Substance.

See here for more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_of_the_Trinity