Free Will

[Yekcidmij]

What is it?

Do we really have free will?

How does God's nature and character relate to free will?

 

[Jipsah]

Do we really have free will?

If we didn't have free will we wouldn't sin. Nobody's forcing us.

 

[beloved57]

Man having a freewill is the biggest lie of the century..

 

[Yekcidmij]

Man having a freewill is the biggest lie of the century..

So, we have no free will whatsoever?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Yes, we have free will. But our will never freely chooses Christ until God first works regeneration in us.

 

[Epiphoskei]

A man's will is free as long as what he wants and what he does is a natural progression of his own nature. God, however, as the creator of each man's nature, is the creator of everything done by free will, such that by means of man's free will, God accomplishes his predetermined plan for history.

 

[cygnusx1]

our wills are not forced , yet they are not inderteminate , 'tis a paradox. and some people simply hate all mystery and parodoxes and must claim to have "all the answers" ...... what is man

 

[LonesomeTexan]

It's a yes and no sort of deal. Since God is all knowing, he knew exactly how our lives are going to turn out and he knew all of the choices that we will make before he even created us. So in that sense, we can't prove God wrong and no matter what choices we make, we are ultimately carrying out God's will and not our own.

I also believe that we shape our fate/destiny by the choices we make. Certainly there are many different ways our lives can turn out being based on our actions and choices we make. Just because God know's our fate doesn't mean we didn't make it happen the way he knew it would happen.

I try not to think about it too much. It makes me feel pretty insignificant knowing that I am just one of billions of people carrying out God's will. It's whatever. I'm quite happy being a servant of God.

 

[nobdysfool]

What is it?

Do we really have free will?

How does God's nature and character relate to free will?

First, you have to define what is meant by free will. Is it freedom to choose anything I want? If so, then desire is a major factor, as well as the possibility of what is chosen. For instance I may want to walk on the moon without a spacesuit and not die, but it is impossible, therefore I cannot really choose to do so. Therefore, free will has limitations, but those limitations do not diminish it in and of themselves.

So, we must conclude that only what is possible is within the realm of free will. But, what is possible for an individual is limited by other factors beyond their control, like circumstances, availability, opportunity, and the like. Therefore we must conclude that free will is limited to what is available, what circumstances will allow, and what opportunities are present and available. This also is not a limitation of free will, it is just dealing with reality.

What limits the will of man is his own desires, which cause him to choose according to his strongest desire with every choice he makes. Some would argue for "autonomous free will", but such a concept collapses when one realizes that all men are affected by outside influence, either from Satan, or from God. Autonomous means to be free from outside influence or control.

God's influence in those whom He saves is to monergistically change their desires, by way of the new birth (regeneration) to desire righteousness and holiness, where before they desired sin and wickedness. Those who are unregenerate are influenced by Satan, who tempts and draws them into sin, and more sin, things which unregenerate men naturally desire.

Men are not autonomous, because they are influenced and controlled by their passions, and sinful desires, if they are unsaved, or they are influenced and guided by God in righteousness and holiness if they are saved. They are free within the bounds of those definitions and parameters to make choices, but those choices are not free in the sense that they are entirely self-generated.

As has been pointed out, God knows all of our choices before we make them, and has incorporated those Foreknown choices into his Purpose and Plan, and affects what choices are available to us at every point of choice. We freely choose to do say, and act exactly as He has Foreseen and Foreknown that we will choose and do. He leaves nothing to chance, but "all is open and naked before Him with Whom we have to do."

 

[jmacvols]

What is it?

Do we really have free will?

How does God's nature and character relate to free will?

Yes man has a free will given to him by God, and God allows man to excercise that free will. But man's free will is not unlimited. We live in a free country, yet we cannot do as we please for there are laws (boundaries) that our free will must operate within. Likewise God has set boundaries. He has given us the limited option of (1)heaven or (2)hell, no third choice, yet we have the free will to choose between the two. Just because God foreknows what we do and where will will spend eternity does not mean God causes these things. Jos 24:15, Joshua told the people to choose between these two options. Likewise in 1 Kings 18:21, Elijah told the people to make a choice between these two options.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Yes man has a free will given to him by God, and God allows man to excercise that free will.

Except God doesn't say this.

Just because God foreknows what we do and where will will spend eternity does not mean God causes these things.

Except God does say that he does.

Jos 24:15, Joshua told the people to choose between these two options. Likewise in 1 Kings 18:21, Elijah told the people to make a choice between these two options.

Free will in the sense you seem to be implying cannot be proven merely by the offering of a choice. That our choices are real does not necessarally mean they are free to the extent that man creates decisions apart from his natural proclivities.

 

[jmacvols]

Except God doesn't say this.

Yes, we can see man use his free will in the bible. Why would God give man this ability and then not allow him to use it?

Except God does say that he does.

Just because God foreknows does not mean He causes. If God's foreknowledge means He causes, then those that are lost are not lost due to their own sin, but are lost due to God's fault. If one is lost not due to his own fault but God's and cannot do anything about it, then God cannot be called a fair and just God under these conditions.

Free will in the sense you seem to be implying cannot be proven merely by the offering of a choice. That our choices are real does not necessarally mean they are free to the extent that man creates decisions apart from his natural proclivities.

If man has no free will then why would these prophets of God offering a choice to the people. Free will is simply that, the ability to make choices whether between as few as two options or more.

 

[BBAS 64]

What is it?

Do we really have free will?

How does God's nature and character relate to free will?

Good Day, Yekcidmij

The ability to choose between a various amounts choices that are presented to him in any given circumstance, and will always chose that which represents his strongest desire or inclination. Those are directly and by necessity affected by nature, affections, and predispositions.

Baker’s Theological dictionary:

Freedom of self determination and action independent of external causes.

Webster’s:

1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

Man in the absent the external force of God, will always choose sin and does so freely. Man has a will not "free" as external things that he does not/ can not control effects the will of man.

Does God have a free-will??

In Him,

Bill

 

[jmacvols]

Man in the absent the external force of God, will always choose sin and does so freely. Man has a will not "free" as external things that he does not/ can not control effects the will of man.


Bill

Rom 2:14 The Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law. This would have been impossible for the Gentiles to do if man will always choose sin. From Acts 10, Cornelius, a Gentile, was a devout man that feared God, prayed to God alway, gave alms and was called "righteous" yet was lost Acts 11:14. How was Cornelius able to pray to God and fear him if man will always choose sin.

If it takes an external force from God to cause man to choose to "do good" then how does God go about deciding whom He will cause to "do good" and save and leave alone and cause to be lost?

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

What is it?

Free will is simply the ability to choose.

The choices though, depend on the context.

Do we really have free will?

Yes, we do have free will. Our free will though is limited by our nature. For example, fish by their nature are free to swim. Fish though, by their nature cannot fly like a bird or walk on the land like a mammal. Likewise humans are limited by their human nature.

In the Garden of Eden, God told Adam he was free to eat from any tree in the garden with one exception. So Adam had free will at that point. After the fall however, both Adam and Eve were affected by sin - sin which disrupted the original fellowship they enjoyed with God. Christians differ on the extent of how Adam and mankind were affected by sin, particularly as it relates to "choosing" God. That choice for humans is the core of the free will debate.

Only a very few extreme hyper-Calvinist Christians (i.e. Westboro) completely deny free will altogether and hold to a type of deterministic view.

How does God's nature and character relate to free will?

God allowed Adam and Eve to freely choose to eat any fruit in the Garden. Scripture also states that unbelievers are themselves responsible for rejecting Christ. These two examples show God does treat humans as autonomous beings who are responsible for certain choices.

Scripture is clear that God, based on His love, choose certain people long before they existed. Also we Christians often have an awareness of a personal commitment to believe in Jesus, or of a voluntary choice to love and serve God. So how does God's choice and our choice appear in the sequence of salvation? Some Christians say God acts, even giving us faith to believe. Other Christians say God acts, opens our eyes and we believe. Still other Christians say that God has already acted and so we respond to Him through faith.

Also we Christians, believers, have the freedom to worship and respond to God and love Him. Indwelling sin within us has not been eradicated, but neither are we limited by the nature of sin as we were before we believed. Christians differ on the extent of how our indwelling sin has been dealt with at our conversion. But it is clear from Scripture that God has implanted in believers a "new nature" from which we - by nature - make good choices.


LDG

 

[Epiphoskei]

Yes, we can see man use his free will in the bible. Why would God give man this ability and then not allow him to use it?

The Bible does not say this. Man has will, but the Bible does not say man was given free will.

Just because God foreknows does not mean He causes. If God's foreknowledge means He causes, then those that are lost are not lost due to their own sin, but are lost due to God's fault. If one is lost not due to his own fault but God's and cannot do anything about it, then God cannot be called a fair and just God under these conditions.

God says he causes. Predestination. Not foreknowledge alone, but predestination is taught by God in the Bible.

If man has no free will then why would these prophets of God offering a choice to the people. Free will is simply that, the ability to make choices whether between as few as two options or more.

Free will is not the ability to make choices. Total determinism still says man's choices are genuinly his own.

 

[jmacvols]

The Bible does not say this. Man has will, but the Bible does not say man was given free will.

Then where did Adam get the ability to choose to eat between the wrong tree and right trees?

God says he causes. Predestination. Not foreknowledge alone, but predestination is taught by God in the Bible.

God did not predestinate particular individuals, He predestinated a class of people called Christians. So one has the free will to choose to be or not be a Christian.

Free will is not the ability to make choices. Total determinism still says man's choices are genuinly his own.

Yes, free will is the ability to make choices. Just as Adam had the ability to make the choice from what tree he ate of.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Then where did Adam get the ability to choose to eat between the wrong tree and right trees?

Like I said, Free will isn't choice, it's sovereign choice.

God did not predestinate particular individuals, He predestinated a class of people called Christians. So one has the free will to choose to be or not be a Christian.

No, the scripture says the people are predestined. Salvation is the thing predestined, and salvation comes to people, not assemblies. Assemblies are composed of "the sanctified," but salvation is for people, not churches.

Yes, free will is the ability to make choices. Just as Adam had the ability to make the choice from what tree he ate of.

As said before, free will is sovereign choice, not just genuine choice.

 

[BBAS 64]

Then where did Adam get the ability to choose to eat between the wrong tree and right trees?




God did not predestinate particular individuals, He predestinated a class of people called Christians. So one has the free will to choose to be or not be a Christian.




Yes, free will is the ability to make choices. Just as Adam had the ability to make the choice from what tree he ate of.

Good Day, Jmacvols

You are confusing will with agency.

Class of people are made up of sigular people, difference with out distiction.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Singular pronoun, the object of the (verbs) Forknown and presdestined.

"If" the Lord shall set you free then you are free indeed, "if" he does not you are not.

 

[BBAS 64]

Rom 2:14 The Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law.

Good Day, Jmavols

The Gentiles had not the law.... Who did?

Paul is makeing a comparsion.

This would have been impossible for the Gentiles to do if man will always choose sin.

I will write my law on their heart and I shall be their God...

From Acts 10, Cornelius, a Gentile, was a devout man that feared God, prayed to God alway, gave alms and was called "righteous" yet was lost Acts 11:14. How was Cornelius able to pray to God and fear him if man will always choose sin.

In the Jewish alms givers were seen as righteous before men. Our righteous is rags to an Holy God.

If it takes an external force from God to cause man to choose to "do good" then how does God go about deciding whom He will cause to "do good" and save and leave alone and cause to be lost?

I do not know, nor do I care, But he has the free-will to do so. It is God that work our will to do his good pleasure.

In Him,

Bill