After Vatican text, pope tells Jeannine Gramick: Trans people 'must be accepted'

[fide]

An article in the N.C. Reporter, by JEANNINE GRAMICK ( co-founder of the Maryland-based LGBTQ Catholic advocacy group New Ways Ministry), includes this from the pope, in his response to her letter to him expressing grief in reading Dignitas Infinita, the Declaration on Human Dignity:

Pope Francis wrote:
Gender ideology is something other than homosexual or transsexual people. Gender ideology makes everyone equal without respect for personal history. I understand the concern about that paragraph in Dignitas Infinita, but it refers not to transgender people but to gender ideology, which nullifies differences. Transgender people must be accepted and integrated into society.

So "transgender people" - by identifying themselves as being "transgender persons", and who have thereby embraced this very "transgender ideology" which Francis claims to condemn - these persons, internally contradictive and living a lie - Francis says "must be accepted and integrated into society." I don't see how one tongue, speaking out of both sides of his one mouth two such contradictory judgments, can complete the sentence without tying itself in such a knot that it strangles him.

 

[AlexB23]

An article in the N.C. Reporter, by JEANNINE GRAMICK ( co-founder of the Maryland-based LGBTQ Catholic advocacy group New Ways Ministry), includes this from the pope, in his response to her letter to him expressing grief in reading Dignitas Infinita, the Declaration on Human Dignity:


So "transgender people" - by identifying themselves as being "transgender persons", and who have thereby embraced this very "transgender ideology" which Francis claims to condemn - these persons, internally contradictive and living a lie - Francis says "must be accepted and integrated into society." I don't see how one tongue, speaking out of both sides of his one mouth two such contradictory judgments, can complete the sentence without tying itself in such a knot that it strangles him.

I wish I could speak out against the pope, but that would be a sin. But, what he is doing is dangerous by accepting the trans community.

 

[fide]

I wish I could speak out against the pope, but that would be a sin. But, what he is doing is dangerous by accepting the trans community.

I cannot believe that speaking truth is a sin.

 

[AlexB23]

I cannot believe that speaking truth is a sin.

Me neither. Sadly, Catholics get all mad if one critiques the Pope.

 

[RileyG]

She must repent or face the consequences.

 

[AlexB23]

She must repent or face the consequences.

Agreed. Why does Francis accept trans people though, if trans is a sin?

 

[RileyG]

Agreed. Why does Francis accept trans people though, if trans is a sin?

Yes.

 

[AlexB23]

Yes.

Our Pope has gone woke. I like his declaration on no killing people, and climate stuff, but the trans stuff got to go.

 

[JSRG]

I would be cautious trying to read too much into this, because the whole letter doesn't seem to be available--or at least the article never links to any full version of it--leaving us only with a (presumably translated) excerpt and a summary of the rest... all of it by someone with obvious bias pro-transgender in this manner who would have every incentive to make it look as pro-transgender as possible. Before attempting to make any real judgments I'd want to see the full letter in the original language, and preferably also the letter it was a response to.

All that said, even with the excerpt we see, it looks to me like it could be one of those "love the sinner, hate the sin" sort of things.

 

[fide]

Agreed. Why does Francis accept trans people though, if trans is a sin?

He seems to think, or believe, that he can accept and accompany and befriend the "person,"and not the "trans". He wants to love the person and condemn "trans" at the same time - but without saying to the "trans" what Jesus said the woman caught in adultery: "Go and do not sin again." It is no mercy to appear to accept sin! Sin kills! Sin violates the person. Sin, and lies, are the commerce of satan. So when he literally embraces Biden, for example, in their meeting in the Vatican, and according to Biden, "We just talked about the fact he was happy that I was a good Catholic and I should keep receiving Communion," he abandoned Biden to the false religion he was living: a life in contradiction to the true faith.

 

[AlexB23]

He seems to think, or believe, that he can accept and accompany and befriend the "person,"and not the "trans". He wants to love the person and condemn "trans" at the same time - but without saying to the "trans" what Jesus said the woman caught in adultery: "Go and do not sin again." It is no mercy to appear to accept sin! Sin kills! Sin violates the person. Sin, and lies, are the commerce of satan. So when he literally embraces Biden, for example, in their meeting in the Vatican, and according to Biden, "We just talked about the fact he was happy that I was a good Catholic and I should keep receiving Communion," he abandoned Biden to the false religion he was living: a life in contradiction to the true faith.

I have a daily devotional that talks about avoiding anything with the appearance of evil. Seems that the Pope is endorsing this evil: 1 Thessalonians 5:22-23 - Abstaining from Evil

Date	May 2, 2024
Verse	1 Thessalonians 5:22-23 (KJV): "Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Explanation	1 Thessalonians 5:22-23 is a powerful passage that encourages believers to live holy and righteous lives, avoiding anything that may appear evil or give the impression of sin. The first part of the passage, "Abstain from all appearance of evil," means that we should not only avoid actual sin, but also anything that might look like sin or could lead us into sin. This includes not only overtly evil actions, but also attitudes, thoughts, and behaviors that are not in line with God's will. The second part of the passage, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," emphasizes the importance of being sanctified, or set apart for God, and being preserved blameless until the return of Christ.
Societal Relevance	In the context of our daily lives in the 2020s, this verse calls us to be discerning and intentional in our choices and actions. Here are some modern trends that may appear innocent at first, but could potentially be evil: Social media: While social media platforms can be used for positive purposes, such as connecting with friends and family, sharing inspirational content, and engaging in meaningful discussions, they can also be a breeding ground for gossip, bullying, and the spread of false information. It's important to use social media in a way that honors God and avoids anything that may appear evil. Entertainment: The entertainment industry often pushes the boundaries of morality and decency, with movies, TV shows, music, and video games that glorify violence, sex, and other sinful behaviors. While it's important to remember that not all entertainment is evil, it's essential to be discerning and to avoid anything that may lead us into sin or compromise our spiritual growth. Fashion: The fashion industry can be a source of temptation, with trends that may be immodest or sexually suggestive. It's important to remember that our clothing choices should reflect our commitment to live holy lives and avoid anything that may appear evil. Food and drink: While it's important to enjoy the good gifts that God has given us, it's also important to avoid anything that may be harmful to our physical or spiritual health. This includes excessive consumption of alcohol, drugs, or unhealthy foods. Relationships: Building healthy, God-honoring relationships is essential for our spiritual growth and well-being. However, it's also important to avoid relationships that may be destructive or unhealthy, such as those that involve deceit, manipulation, or abuse. In summary, 1 Thessalonians 5:22-23 calls us to avoid anything that may appear evil and to live holy, blameless lives that honor God. This requires discernment, intentionality, and a commitment to living in a way that reflects God's love and grace in all areas of our lives.

 

[fide]

I would be cautious trying to read too much into this, because the whole letter doesn't seem to be available--or at least the article never links to any full version of it--leaving us only with a (presumably translated) excerpt and a summary of the rest... all of it by someone with obvious bias pro-transgender in this manner who would have every incentive to make it look as pro-transgender as possible. Before attempting to make any real judgments I'd want to see the full letter in the original language, and preferably also the letter it was a response to.

All that said, even with the excerpt we see, it looks to me like it could be one of those "love the sinner, hate the sin" sort of things.

Or more like, "love the person, overlook the sin." That is not from God. Yes, sin is definitely a problem in the matter of love. Love - true, real eternal love - is holy, is of God, IS God. The life of the Holy Trinity is an eternal exchange and mutual indwelling of divine Love among the Persons. Love in this world, on the other hand, is based on acquiring, not giving - on self-gratification, not self out-pouring in self-sacrifice. Such is not love, it is deceit. It is a lie to manipulate the other to gain something from him. In other words, mere "accompaniment" apart from the apostolate of evangelization, is not of supernatural faith it is merely politics, a work of this world.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Me neither. Sadly, Catholics get all mad if one critiques the Pope.

The pope, any pope, is infallible in a very circumspect limited way. Not at all impeccable. Consequently, except for those limited moments of infallibility, popes can and should be criticized just like the rest of us.

Pope Francis is incoherent here. You can say so if you want, politely respecting his authority as pope.

 

[AlexB23]

The pope, any pope, is infallible in a very circumspect limited way. Not at all impeccable. Consequently, except for those limited moments of infallibility, popes can and should be criticized just like the rest of us.

Pope Francis is incoherent here. You can say so if you want, politely respecting his authority as pope.

As a Catholic myself, it is disturbing why Francis supports this movement. He was good up until recently.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Agreed. Why does Francis accept trans people though, if trans is a sin?

The ideology is sinful. The confused people are some combination of sinners and victims who we do not need to hate. I’m not keen on making trans ok at all. But not going to hate them either. It’s accepting people as people and not as their sins. I can’t tell if that’s really how pope Francis sees it or not. He’s unclear at best.

 

[AlexB23]

The ideology is sinful. The confused people are some combination of sinners and victims who we do not need to hate. I’m not keen on making trans ok at all. But not going to hate them either. It’s accepting people as people and not as their sins. I can’t tell if that’s really how pope Francis sees it or not. He’s unclear at best.

I agree with you. We will have to see what the Pope does in the next 1 to 5 years.

 

[chevyontheriver]

As a Catholic myself, it is disturbing why Francis supports this movement. He was good up until recently.

If personnel is policy he has not been ‘good’ for a long time based on his appointments of bishops and cardinals.

 

[AlexB23]

If personnel is policy he has not been ‘good’ for a long time based on his appointments of bishops and cardinals.

Well, maybe we will get a Pope in the future who is more centrist, or true to God's Word in the following years.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Well, maybe we will get a Pope in the future who is more centrist, or true to God's Word in the following years.

Popes should be true to God’s Word. Please Lord.

 

[AlexB23]

Popes should be true to God’s Word. Please Lord.

I will pray tonight that our Pope returns to God's Word. Heck, even the AI on my laptop is closer to God's word when it helps me understand Bible verses.