I'm Catholic... and yet some non-Catholics inspire me

[discombobulated1]

I just got through reading this book that I almost didn't bother with. It was written by Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame. I always liked him but I figured I knew enough about him already... "just another Protestant," part of me said.

Well, this book called Happy Happy Happy (which title got on my nerves because I am not always a happy person or even believe I can be happy... long story) was incredibly interesting and inspiring. Robertson has led many people to Christ. True, you can't just lead people to Him, you kind of have to support their faith after they come to Him, but he seems to have done some of that also.

One interesting story was how he had read in the Word that you are to do good to your enemies. Well, one time some guys were down by a river near his home (I htink it was on Phil's property) and they were trying to steal fish out of his net. His first instinct was to get them, but he remembered that psg about doing good to enemies. Then... LOL, he grabbed his shotgun "just in case." Well, the guys didn't want to admit they were trying to steal his fish but Phil overlooked that as best he could and began GIVING them all the fish, not just some of them but all of them. It's a funny story as he tells it. I had some hearty laughs...

That was quite impressive to me because I've seen a lot of people who call themselves Christian and .. .well, in certain situations, they don't exactly act like it. At first Phil didn't want to accept those words in Scripture. We can all relate. But it was very intersting what he did

And the thieves never bothered him again...

 

[BobRyan]

Common ground between Catholics and non-Catholics
1. A lot of common ground in opposing abortion
2. Accept the teaching that the Bible is the Word of God - scripture and it can be trusted.
3. Accept the teaching there the God head is comprised of God the Father, God the Son , God the Holy Spirit
4. Accept the teaching of the virgin birth where Christ is born sinless, and God is His Father not Joseph,
5. Literal death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus
6. Literal miracles of Christ in the Gospels
At one time there was common ground in opposing gay marriage, transgender issues etc -- but I am not certain that is the case still and not all protestant or Catholic groups still oppose such things.

 

[discombobulated1]

At one time there was common ground in opposing gay marriage, transgender issues etc -- but I am not certain that is the case still and not all protestant or Catholic groups still oppose such things.

This is why I believe the Sedevacantists on what happened to the papacy. I have been to Sede sites and they claim (i concur) that there hasn't been a valid pope since Pius XII 1958.

Nothing else makes sense and i have studies this rather in depth. I wince when someone calls JP II a saint. If the Church was over-run by anti-Christs in 1958 as I say it was, then no canonization since then can be presumed to be valid. JP II taught that all religions can lead you to God/Heaven. NOT what Jesus said. Jesus said HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life (not Buddha, not Mohommad).

Why is it that the Church went decades, possibly centuries before canonizing a pope... I think Pius X was the last valid canonization... but today, every modern post -vatican II "pope" is now a saint?

That's ridiculous.

on the other hand, Jesus watches over his Church from Above. St Peter was thefirst pope. I would never say that Jesus or Peter has abandoned the novus ordo Church (like I feel like doing)

 

[discombobulated1]

I always wondered why Duck Dynasty came to an end, the show?

I liked it

 

[RileyG]

Common ground between Catholics and non-Catholics
1. A lot of common ground in opposing abortion
2. Accept the teaching that the Bible is the Word of God - scripture and it can be trusted.
3. Accept the teaching there the God head is comprised of God the Father, God the Son , God the Holy Spirit
4. Accept the teaching of the virgin birth where Christ is born sinless, and God is His Father not Joseph,
5. Literal death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus
6. Literal miracles of Christ in the Gospels
At one time there was common ground in opposing gay marriage, transgender issues etc -- but I am not certain that is the case still and not all protestant or Catholic groups still oppose such things.

Amen!

 

[RileyG]

There is nothing wrong with that. I have read lots of Protestant inspired literature as a faithful Catholic. If anything, it helped broaden my understanding.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think cross-traditional reading is fairly common among modern Christians of many different types. And, generally, it's often beneficial.

I'm a Lutheran, but among some of my favorite writers and thinkers are Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican. N.T. Wright, C.S. Lewis, Hans Urs von Balthasar, Kallistos Ware.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[discombobulated1]

I re-read the first part of Phil Robertson's book Happy Happy Happy

His wife is a true hero in that story. She stayed faithful to him when he was being "unruly" or whatever you call it. Reading it a 2nd time was way better than just once because sometimes I tend to read too fast and miss afew things, but interesting things caught my attn the 2nd time..

If Phil had been raised Catholic, I don'tbelieve he would have had thatbad period in his life. I had bad periods in my life that involved sin just as he did and I was raised Catholic, but still, there were things I would never do when I was "out there" sinning.. because of being raised Catholic. The thing is, my problems, the ones that caused me to commit certain sins when very young, were not caused by... well, it's complicated. I was not raised in a devout home, so that right there says it all (sort of ). But there were some serious issues w/ my parents, who... let's just say they did not treat their children equally.. favored some, disfavored others. That is not good and obviously causes problems.. Anyway, I am going off the trail somewhat...

 

[bbbbbbb]

This is why I believe the Sedevacantists on what happened to the papacy. I have been to Sede sites and they claim (i concur) that there hasn't been a valid pope since Pius XII 1958.

Nothing else makes sense and i have studies this rather in depth. I wince when someone calls JP II a saint. If the Church was over-run by anti-Christs in 1958 as I say it was, then no canonization since then can be presumed to be valid. JP II taught that all religions can lead you to God/Heaven. NOT what Jesus said. Jesus said HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life (not Buddha, not Mohommad).

Why is it that the Church went decades, possibly centuries before canonizing a pope... I think Pius X was the last valid canonization... but today, every modern post -vatican II "pope" is now a saint?

That's ridiculous.

on the other hand, Jesus watches over his Church from Above. St Peter was thefirst pope. I would never say that Jesus or Peter has abandoned the novus ordo Church (like I feel like doing)

How many Popes were valid prior to Pius XII? What do you make of the Avignon adventure?

 

[discombobulated1]

How many Popes were valid prior to Pius XII? What do you make of the Avignon adventure?

I know a little about it and it was terrible.

But never have we had a pope or anti-pope who said that same sex marriages should be blessed

and the old "Who am I to judge?" thing and etc... We never had a "pope" who focused on the environment when popes are supposed to be focused on Faith and Morals and people getting to Heaven/avoiding Hell

 

[Halbhh]

Speaking of cross church reading and listening, a couple of really great preachers I've found outside my church are Pope Francis and Alastair Begg -- I'm better off for being able to listen to faithful voices from varied churches, wherever they may be.

 

[Halbhh]

I just saw this new example (I've read many) of Pope Francis delivering yet another really good teaching from Christ to us:

HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
Saint Mark’s Square (Venice)
Fifth Sunday of Easter, 28 April 2024
[Multimedia]
_________________________________________

Jesus is the vine; we are the branches. Like a patient farmer, God, the merciful and good Father, tenderly cultivates us so that our lives may be filled with much fruit. This is why Jesus urges us to safeguard the invaluable gift of our relationship with him, upon which our life and fruitfulness depend. He persistently repeats, “Remain in me, as I remain in you. […] Abide in me, and I in you. […] He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit” (John 15:4-5). Only those who remain united with Jesus will bear fruit. Let us pause to consider this.
Jesus is about to conclude his earthly mission. At the Last Supper with those who will become his apostles, he entrusts to them several key words, along with the Eucharist. This is one of those words: “remain”, keep the connection with me alive, remain united to me as branches to the vine. Using this imagery, Jesus revisits a biblical metaphor that was well-known to the people and found in prayers, as in the psalm that says, “Turn again, O God of hosts! Look down from heaven, and see; have regard for this vine” (Ps 80:15). Israel is the vineyard that the Lord planted and cared for. When the people fail to produce the fruits of love that the Lord expects, the prophet Isaiah issues an indictment using the parable of a farmer who ploughed his vineyard, removed the stones, and planted choice vines, expecting it to produce good wine, but it yielded only sour grapes. The prophet concludes: “The vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, the men of Judah are his pleasant planting; and he looked for justice, but behold, bloodshed; for righteousness, but behold, a cry!” (Is 5:7). Jesus himself, drawing from Isaiah, recounts the dramatic parable of the murderous vineyard workers, highlighting the contrast between God’s patient work and his people’s rejection (cf. Mt 21:33-44).
Thus, while the metaphor of the vine expresses God’s loving care for us, it also warns us that if we sever this connection with the Lord, we cannot produce fruits of good life and we run the risk of becoming dry branches. It is a shame to become dry branches, those branches that get cast aside. ....

...Brothers and sisters, this is what matters: to remain in the Lord, to abide in him. Let us reflect on this for one minute: to remain in the Lord, to abide in him. This verb — to remain — should not be interpreted as something static, as if it were telling us to stand still, parked in passivity. Indeed, it invites us to move, because to remain in the Lord means to grow in relationship with him, to converse with him, to embrace his Word, to follow him on the path of the Kingdom of God. It thus involves following him on a journey, letting ourselves be challenged by his Gospel, and becoming witnesses of his love. ....
(continues)

Visit to Venice: Celebration of Holy Mass (Saint Mark’s Square, 28 April 2024) | Francis

Visit to Venice: Celebration of Holy Mass, Saint Mark’s Square, 28 April 2024

www.vatican.va

--------
Pope Francis here teaching the crucially important message to us from Christ about abiding in Him, the Vine, John 15:1-17.

 

[Michie]

I just got through reading this book that I almost didn't bother with. It was written by Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame. I always liked him but I figured I knew enough about him already... "just another Protestant," part of me said.

Well, this book called Happy Happy Happy (which title got on my nerves because I am not always a happy person or even believe I can be happy... long story) was incredibly interesting and inspiring. Robertson has led many people to Christ. True, you can't just lead people to Him, you kind of have to support their faith after they come to Him, but he seems to have done some of that also.

One interesting story was how he had read in the Word that you are to do good to your enemies. Well, one time some guys were down by a river near his home (I htink it was on Phil's property) and they were trying to steal fish out of his net. His first instinct was to get them, but he remembered that psg about doing good to enemies. Then... LOL, he grabbed his shotgun "just in case." Well, the guys didn't want to admit they were trying to steal his fish but Phil overlooked that as best he could and began GIVING them all the fish, not just some of them but all of them. It's a funny story as he tells it. I had some hearty laughs...

That was quite impressive to me because I've seen a lot of people who call themselves Christian and .. .well, in certain situations, they don't exactly act like it. At first Phil didn't want to accept those words in Scripture. We can all relate. But it was very intersting what he did

And the thieves never bothered him again...

I’ve never read it. I always passed it over. Duck Dynasty…ugh! But now I want to read it. Sounds like a fun and edifying read.

 

[discombobulated1]

I just saw this new example (I've read many) of Pope Francis delivering yet another really good teaching from Christ to us:

HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
Saint Mark’s Square (Venice)
Fifth Sunday of Easter, 28 April 2024
[Multimedia]
_________________________________________

Jesus is the vine; we are the branches. Like a patient farmer, God, the merciful and good Father, tenderly cultivates us so that our lives may be filled with much fruit.

I have a problem w/ it already

I tend to think Jesus is not always being "tender" with us. Sometimes I think He is kicking us in the... whatever. We americans in particular tend to be soft, living an affluent life. Did Jesus live that way? No, but people don't REALLY want to follow Him in all ways. When He asks us to sacrifice something, a lot of people say C ya, Jesus...

 

[discombobulated1]

I’ve never read it. I always passed it over. Duck Dynasty…ugh! But now I want to read it. Sounds like a fun and edifying read.

I love autobiographies, esp of people who take Jesus seriously. Did you ever watch DD?

I thought it was very funny and I loved the way their family was always together around thedinner table.. no cellphone, probably. Phil apparently never owned one, at least not b4 writing that book

Again his wife is a real hero in the story.. She came to Christ first

 

[Michie]

I love autobiographies, esp of people who take Jesus seriously. Did you ever watch DD?

I thought it was very funny and I loved the way their family was always together around thedinner table.. no cellphone, probably. Phil apparently never owned one, at least not b4 writing that book

Again his wife is a real hero in the story.. She came to Christ first

No I never watched it but I am interested in reading the book now. Thanks!

 

[bbbbbbb]

I know a little about it and it was terrible.

But never have we had a pope or anti-pope who said that same sex marriages should be blessed

and the old "Who am I to judge?" thing and etc... We never had a "pope" who focused on the environment when popes are supposed to be focused on Faith and Morals and people getting to Heaven/avoiding Hell

The papacy during the Renaissance was a moral sewer in which various Popes fathered illegitimate children with various courtesans and mistresses and did not express the slightest remorse about it. Some even elevated their children to high offices in the church bureaucracy including the office of cardinal, sometimes at an extremely young age. Nepotism was the order of the day and simony was business as usual. The sale of indulgences was big business, bringing in the necessary funds to reconstruct St. Peter's Basilica in Rome in addition to many other building efforts.

The pleasant thing was that the Popes did not need, or want, to put the lipstick of marriage on their forms of immorality. It was of no significant consequence to them. Even Erasmus, the solid Dutch theologian and defender of The Faith wrote some really pointed remarks regarding the eternal destinies of some of the Popes of his era.

 

[discombobulated1]

The papacy during the Renaissance was a moral sewer in which various Popes fathered illegitimate children with various courtesans and mistresses and did not express the slightest remorse about it. Some even elevated their children to high offices in the church bureaucracy including the office of cardinal, sometimes at an extremely young age. Nepotism was the order of the day and simony was business as usual. The sale of indulgences was big business, bringing in the necessary funds to reconstruct St. Peter's Basilica in Rome in addition to many other building efforts.

The pleasant thing was that the Popes did not need, or want, to put the lipstick of marriage on their forms of immorality. It was of no significant consequence to them. Even Erasmus, the solid Dutch theologian and defender of The Faith wrote some really pointed remarks regarding the eternal destinies of some of the Popes of his era.

I'd like to read what Erasmus had to say.

Yes, I knew a lot of what you wrote here. But did any of those popes TEACH the world to fornicate as they did?

I have not heard that. Again, things are different today...

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'd like to read what Erasmus had to say.

Yes, I knew a lot of what you wrote here. But did any of those popes TEACH the world to fornicate as they did?

I have not heard that. Again, things are different today...

How does one teach? To paraphrase St. Francis, preach the gospel at all times and, if necessary, use words. Much of what I learned from my parents came from their lives as they lived out their values to me. I am not aware of any member of the Roman Catholic clergy who is actively teaching Catholics how to fornicate. In fact, the prohibition against most birth control methods is still in effect, unless I am mistaken.

Here is the Wikipedia article regarding Erasmus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus

It provides an overview with links to his writings. I hope you find it helpful.

 

[The Liturgist]

The papacy during the Renaissance was a moral sewer in which various Popes fathered illegitimate children with various courtesans and mistresses and did not express the slightest remorse about it.

You might criticize individual Popes on that basis, namely Pope Alexander VI of the Borgias, however, it is unfair to characterize all holders of the office of the Bishop of Rome during the Renaissance in that manner. Certainly St. Pius V is undeserving of such criticism.

I strongly object to overbroad generalizations about the Roman Catholic Church (or any denomination).