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Why did Michael Servetus go to Geneva where he got burned by Calvin's Reformed community?
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<blockquote data-quote="rakovsky" data-source="post: 69247223" data-attributes="member: 31810"><p>This is the infamous story where John Calvin instigated the execution of Servetus for denying the doctrine of the Trinity. Servetus taught that Jesus and the Father could not be different "persons" and "hypostases", because they were "one". (<span style="font-size: 15px"><strong><a href="http://biblehub.com/john/10-30.htm" target="_blank">John 10:30</a></strong></span>) My personal opinion, is that as a matter of logic and Tradition, one must differentiate the the two as "persons". The most I could agree with Servetus is that they shared the same "hypostasis", using that term in its Biblical and etymological meaning (substance).</p><p></p><p>What I find especially interesting about this case though is what it shows about Calvin in real life. On the surface, Michael Servetus went to Geneva, Switzerland, which was under the Reformed Protestants (ie. Calvin et al., not the Lutherans), just because he was fleeing the Inquisition in France. It was an officially unexplained stopover, and he and Geneva portrayed things as if he were just caught while in attempted hiding, unbeknownest to the official Genevan government and public. End of Story.</p><p></p><p><img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a7/31/fb/a731fbd356947d586932c731d7a9d256.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> </p><p>Servetus in portrait and in background</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Is this, however, the real, full story?</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus#Imprisonment_and_execution" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus#Imprisonment_and_execution</a></p><p></p><p><img src="http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/switzerland/geneva/maps/munster_lat_1550_98_b.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> </p><p>Geneva 1550</p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/39726" target="_blank">http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/39726</a></p><p></p><p>Note the claim in bold from the "Reformed" website above that Servetus believed in executing Calvin. There is no citation for this. Indeed, the book <u>Did Calvin Murder Servetus</u> quotes Servetus as opposing the killing of heretics.(pp.20-21)</p><p></p><p>Before coming to Geneva,</p><p></p><p><a href="http://uudb.org/articles/michaelservetus.html" target="_blank">http://uudb.org/articles/michaelservetus.html</a></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/servetus.html" target="_blank">http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/servetus.html</a></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong>One curious thing,</strong> I find, is Servetus' escape from French prison before coming to Geneva. Calvin, by the way, said in March 1553 that he did not get Servetus arrested in order to get him killed because he was against killing heretics, but this is curious as 6 months or so later he advocated Servetus' death. What is curious about the arrest though is that Servetus was also well known in France as a doctor involved in scientific discoveries. His arrest was not at France's own instigation. I'm sure that true, unabetted escapes from medieval Inquisition prisons happened, but I think that they were rare. It would not surprise me then if Servetus was aided in his escape. The writer Stanford Rives writes that Servetus escaped due to the jailer's negligence. (Did Valcin Murder Servetus?_</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></p><p>The Earl Morse Wilbur's <em>Our Unitarian Heritage </em>says about the Inquisition's trial in France:</p><p></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 15px">The book </span><u><span style="font-size: 15px">Did Calvin Murder Servetus?</span></u></strong><span style="font-size: 15px"><strong> By Stanford Rives,</strong> does not take the view that Servetus' presence in Geneva was unknown to Calvin before Servetus' arrest. Rives explains that Servetus saw God's creative "Word" as a manifestation of God, and that Servetus concluded that this meant Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit were all "one", not separate "persons". Rives goes on to say this was reasonable enough that Italian Protestants supported Servetus and decried his execution in Geneva, and asks: "Hence the question comes to mind why did Servetus turn from satefy in Italy to end up in Geneva that Sunday in August 1553? Why would he make his face so prominently visible to Calvin?"</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"><a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=MlPrYQ5srKEC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=michael+OR+miguel+servetus+geneva+italy+1553&source=bl&ots=dE8v8I93L0&sig=hq6GzC4WOrRpZJPe4geJBvl-P10&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2r7K-pO_KAhVCkx4KHRrPBQcQ6AEIdzAS#v=onepage&q=michael%20OR%20miguel%20servetus%20geneva%20italy%201553&f=false" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/books?id=MlPrYQ5srKEC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=michael+OR+miguel+servetus+geneva+italy+1553&source=bl&ots=dE8v8I93L0&sig=hq6GzC4WOrRpZJPe4geJBvl-P10&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2r7K-pO_KAhVCkx4KHRrPBQcQ6AEIdzAS#v=onepage&q=michael OR miguel servetus geneva italy 1553&f=false</a></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Rives proposes that it is clear that Calvin was responsible for exposing Servetus to the Inquisition in France and that even Geneva's court admitted it at the time. He concludes that Servetus came to Geneva to confront Calvin directly, and that this is why Servetus came to Calvin's church sermon. He notes that Geneva had not had religious based executions before under Protestantism, and that the Inquisition and Catholic religious institutes were closed there. Calvin was a major author of Geneva's new laws. Further, until then it had been a major, general Protestant objection that the Catholic inquisition killed heretics, stated in Luther's 95 theses and by Calvin himself at one point. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Further, under the the laws of the Catholic Inquisition, criminals were not convicted in other countries for heretical crimes they committed elsewhere, and so Servetus claimed that Geneva lacked jurisdiction, as his heresies were made when he was abroad. The formal punishment for blasphemy in Geneva was banishment, not arrest. Rives concludes that Servetus did not expected to get killed by Calvin.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Further, there were political factions in Geneva. Geneva decided in 1552 that Calvin could no longer teach "predestination", because it made God a tyrant. The Libertines, Calvin's opponents, were in power in the city, and so Servetus might expect their protection. Yet later that year, Calvin's ally Farel had Geneva pass a law saying that Calvin's <u>Institutes</u> were "God's holy doctrine" and <em>could not be criticized.</em> This is ironic considering Calvin's criticisms of "man-made" Catholic authoritarianism, and Rives proposes that news of this shameful law probably didn't spread far outside Switzerland to where Servetus would know about it.</span></p><p></p><p>Calvin had strong power in Geneva, beyond what one might expect. To attack him personally or his particular Protestant teachings was to risk criminal penalties. For example, a man named Gruet was tortured and burned for a placard calling Calvin a representative of the devil and of renegade priests, however Calvin himself noted that the placard was not in Gruet's handwriting. Rives lists other such cases on p. 418.</p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">After Servetus' death, Calvin admitted in correspondence that the arresting accusation for Servetus was made on his advice and that he "engaged one to be the accuser" and "the accuser proceeded from me." This is interesting, because on p. 11, Rives says that Calvin later admitted that from March to August 1553, he knew that Servetus was in Geneva. So by the chronology of events:</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Servetus was arrested in France, but escaped in April 1553, then in March-August Calvin knew he was in Geneva (but how can this be, if April comes after March?), and then in August Calvin in practice had Servetus arrested. So what was happening during those months when Genevans knew that Servetus was there? <strong>Why did no one in Geneva openly talk about this or take action, and then only in August did Calvin act? </strong>Rives says that at some point though, perhaps immediately after Servetus fled France, he went to Italy where he supporters were and only later went to Geneva. Rives cites alvin to that effect, but notes that Servetus says that he just went straight to Switzerland. Rives proposes that Servetus covered this up to protect his supporters in Italy.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">I do remember a proposition by another author that Servetus may have come to and stayed in Geneva in coordination with people from the Libertine party who opposed Calvin. This may not be such a surprise considering that Servetus had supporters in Italy and people who helped him flee France, so he may have had supporters in Geneva too.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rakovsky, post: 69247223, member: 31810"] This is the infamous story where John Calvin instigated the execution of Servetus for denying the doctrine of the Trinity. Servetus taught that Jesus and the Father could not be different "persons" and "hypostases", because they were "one". ([SIZE=4][B][URL='http://biblehub.com/john/10-30.htm']John 10:30[/URL][/B][/SIZE]) My personal opinion, is that as a matter of logic and Tradition, one must differentiate the the two as "persons". The most I could agree with Servetus is that they shared the same "hypostasis", using that term in its Biblical and etymological meaning (substance). What I find especially interesting about this case though is what it shows about Calvin in real life. On the surface, Michael Servetus went to Geneva, Switzerland, which was under the Reformed Protestants (ie. Calvin et al., not the Lutherans), just because he was fleeing the Inquisition in France. It was an officially unexplained stopover, and he and Geneva portrayed things as if he were just caught while in attempted hiding, unbeknownest to the official Genevan government and public. End of Story. [IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a7/31/fb/a731fbd356947d586932c731d7a9d256.jpg[/IMG] Servetus in portrait and in background [B] Is this, however, the real, full story?[/B] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus#Imprisonment_and_execution[/URL] [IMG]http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/switzerland/geneva/maps/munster_lat_1550_98_b.jpg[/IMG] Geneva 1550 [URL]http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/39726[/URL] Note the claim in bold from the "Reformed" website above that Servetus believed in executing Calvin. There is no citation for this. Indeed, the book [U]Did Calvin Murder Servetus[/U] quotes Servetus as opposing the killing of heretics.(pp.20-21) Before coming to Geneva, [URL]http://uudb.org/articles/michaelservetus.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/servetus.html[/URL] [SIZE=4][B]One curious thing,[/B] I find, is Servetus' escape from French prison before coming to Geneva. Calvin, by the way, said in March 1553 that he did not get Servetus arrested in order to get him killed because he was against killing heretics, but this is curious as 6 months or so later he advocated Servetus' death. What is curious about the arrest though is that Servetus was also well known in France as a doctor involved in scientific discoveries. His arrest was not at France's own instigation. I'm sure that true, unabetted escapes from medieval Inquisition prisons happened, but I think that they were rare. It would not surprise me then if Servetus was aided in his escape. The writer Stanford Rives writes that Servetus escaped due to the jailer's negligence. (Did Valcin Murder Servetus?_ [/SIZE] The Earl Morse Wilbur's [I]Our Unitarian Heritage [/I]says about the Inquisition's trial in France: [B] [SIZE=4]The book [/SIZE][U][SIZE=4]Did Calvin Murder Servetus?[/SIZE][/U][/B][SIZE=4][B] By Stanford Rives,[/B] does not take the view that Servetus' presence in Geneva was unknown to Calvin before Servetus' arrest. Rives explains that Servetus saw God's creative "Word" as a manifestation of God, and that Servetus concluded that this meant Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit were all "one", not separate "persons". Rives goes on to say this was reasonable enough that Italian Protestants supported Servetus and decried his execution in Geneva, and asks: "Hence the question comes to mind why did Servetus turn from satefy in Italy to end up in Geneva that Sunday in August 1553? Why would he make his face so prominently visible to Calvin?" [URL]https://books.google.com/books?id=MlPrYQ5srKEC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=michael+OR+miguel+servetus+geneva+italy+1553&source=bl&ots=dE8v8I93L0&sig=hq6GzC4WOrRpZJPe4geJBvl-P10&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2r7K-pO_KAhVCkx4KHRrPBQcQ6AEIdzAS#v=onepage&q=michael%20OR%20miguel%20servetus%20geneva%20italy%201553&f=false[/URL][/SIZE] [SIZE=4]Rives proposes that it is clear that Calvin was responsible for exposing Servetus to the Inquisition in France and that even Geneva's court admitted it at the time. He concludes that Servetus came to Geneva to confront Calvin directly, and that this is why Servetus came to Calvin's church sermon. He notes that Geneva had not had religious based executions before under Protestantism, and that the Inquisition and Catholic religious institutes were closed there. Calvin was a major author of Geneva's new laws. Further, until then it had been a major, general Protestant objection that the Catholic inquisition killed heretics, stated in Luther's 95 theses and by Calvin himself at one point. Further, under the the laws of the Catholic Inquisition, criminals were not convicted in other countries for heretical crimes they committed elsewhere, and so Servetus claimed that Geneva lacked jurisdiction, as his heresies were made when he was abroad. The formal punishment for blasphemy in Geneva was banishment, not arrest. Rives concludes that Servetus did not expected to get killed by Calvin.[/SIZE] [SIZE=4]Further, there were political factions in Geneva. Geneva decided in 1552 that Calvin could no longer teach "predestination", because it made God a tyrant. The Libertines, Calvin's opponents, were in power in the city, and so Servetus might expect their protection. Yet later that year, Calvin's ally Farel had Geneva pass a law saying that Calvin's [U]Institutes[/U] were "God's holy doctrine" and [I]could not be criticized.[/I] This is ironic considering Calvin's criticisms of "man-made" Catholic authoritarianism, and Rives proposes that news of this shameful law probably didn't spread far outside Switzerland to where Servetus would know about it.[/SIZE] Calvin had strong power in Geneva, beyond what one might expect. To attack him personally or his particular Protestant teachings was to risk criminal penalties. For example, a man named Gruet was tortured and burned for a placard calling Calvin a representative of the devil and of renegade priests, however Calvin himself noted that the placard was not in Gruet's handwriting. Rives lists other such cases on p. 418. [SIZE=4] After Servetus' death, Calvin admitted in correspondence that the arresting accusation for Servetus was made on his advice and that he "engaged one to be the accuser" and "the accuser proceeded from me." This is interesting, because on p. 11, Rives says that Calvin later admitted that from March to August 1553, he knew that Servetus was in Geneva. So by the chronology of events: Servetus was arrested in France, but escaped in April 1553, then in March-August Calvin knew he was in Geneva (but how can this be, if April comes after March?), and then in August Calvin in practice had Servetus arrested. So what was happening during those months when Genevans knew that Servetus was there? [B]Why did no one in Geneva openly talk about this or take action, and then only in August did Calvin act? [/B]Rives says that at some point though, perhaps immediately after Servetus fled France, he went to Italy where he supporters were and only later went to Geneva. Rives cites alvin to that effect, but notes that Servetus says that he just went straight to Switzerland. Rives proposes that Servetus covered this up to protect his supporters in Italy.[/SIZE] [SIZE=4]I do remember a proposition by another author that Servetus may have come to and stayed in Geneva in coordination with people from the Libertine party who opposed Calvin. This may not be such a surprise considering that Servetus had supporters in Italy and people who helped him flee France, so he may have had supporters in Geneva too.[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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