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the origins of the bible
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<blockquote data-quote="rainycity" data-source="post: 53593495" data-attributes="member: 246231"><p>what personal attacks ? <img src="/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/old/scratch.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":scratch:" title="scratch :scratch:" data-shortname=":scratch:" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>that's not what a fact means at all. A fact is something established to be true. In Science, since it always allows the possibility of being wrong (which is a good thing), a fact is taken as Gould defined it:</p><p> </p><p> "<em>In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.</em>"</p><p> </p><p> --Stephen Jay Gould</p><p></p><p><strong>fact</strong></p><p></p><p> &#8211;noun <span style="font-size: 12px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">1.</span> something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact. </p><p> 2. something<span style="font-size: 12px"> known to exist or to have happened: </span>Space travel is now a fact. </p><p>3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth. </p><p>4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable. </p><p>5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. </p><p></p><p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact" target="_blank">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact</a></p><p></p><p>Before you jump on 4., only 1. - 3. define scientific facts. </p><p></p><p>fact: tires are made of rubber</p><p>fact: the ocean is full of salty water</p><p>fact: wood comes from trees</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If either/or is might be true, and we haven't figured out what the correct answer is, then it isn't a fact yet, it's a theory.</p><p></p><p>If they're both facts, then they cannot be changed. Only more facts can be added to them to explain those facts already in place.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Your analogy doesn't even support what you're claiming. In a trial facts are presented yes, and if an innocent man is sent to prison, it's not the facts that are wrong, it's the conclusion we're making that was wrong. Two very different things.</p><p></p><p>Juries have to make decisions with incomplete sets of knowledge. That they make an erroneous decision (i.e. it happens that they convict an innocent man) does not mean the knowledge they had was incorrect, it means that it's incompleteness might have given a different impression. If the crime scene investigators found - among other things - blood on the floor ( which would be a fact), and they jury reached a guilty verdict but it turned out he was innocent it doesn't magically mean there was no blood on the floor; the fact stays the same: there was blood on the floor. It just means they were missing other facts (like he had cut himself with a knife, or had an accident, etc.). The facts aren't changing, the conclusion is simply getting better as new facts/information comes to light.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rainycity, post: 53593495, member: 246231"] what personal attacks ? :scratch: that's not what a fact means at all. A fact is something established to be true. In Science, since it always allows the possibility of being wrong (which is a good thing), a fact is taken as Gould defined it: "[I]In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.[/I]" --Stephen Jay Gould [B]fact[/B] –noun [SIZE=3] 1.[/SIZE] something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact. 2. something[SIZE=3] known to exist or to have happened: [/SIZE]Space travel is now a fact. 3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth. 4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable. 5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. [URL]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact[/URL] Before you jump on 4., only 1. - 3. define scientific facts. fact: tires are made of rubber fact: the ocean is full of salty water fact: wood comes from trees If either/or is might be true, and we haven't figured out what the correct answer is, then it isn't a fact yet, it's a theory. If they're both facts, then they cannot be changed. Only more facts can be added to them to explain those facts already in place. Your analogy doesn't even support what you're claiming. In a trial facts are presented yes, and if an innocent man is sent to prison, it's not the facts that are wrong, it's the conclusion we're making that was wrong. Two very different things. Juries have to make decisions with incomplete sets of knowledge. That they make an erroneous decision (i.e. it happens that they convict an innocent man) does not mean the knowledge they had was incorrect, it means that it's incompleteness might have given a different impression. If the crime scene investigators found - among other things - blood on the floor ( which would be a fact), and they jury reached a guilty verdict but it turned out he was innocent it doesn't magically mean there was no blood on the floor; the fact stays the same: there was blood on the floor. It just means they were missing other facts (like he had cut himself with a knife, or had an accident, etc.). The facts aren't changing, the conclusion is simply getting better as new facts/information comes to light. [/QUOTE]
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