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Suicidal thoughts due to husband's porn addiction

Discussion in 'Separation and Marriage Restoration' started by peckaboo, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    Stopping may be half the battle, but it's a necessity - a priority. If you don't make the effort to stop, all the talking and counseling in the world won't make a bit of difference. Again, do we belong to God or do we belong to self?

    I'm aware of how it is to just "stop" and not be changed inside. My first period of sobriety, I was a dry drunk. I resented every day I did not drink. I craved alcohol. Inevitably I fell off the wagon. I realized then that I wasn't convicted, and that I needed to get convicted. It took another year to get to that point. But I was always trying to stop, always aware I needed to stop, and stopping was my one aim in life -rather than my number one aim being understanding why I drank (which I'm pretty sure is a multitude of reasons, but I have never had counseling on it.) You can get dry/clean/sober without having your head shrunk. If you need it shrunk after, go right ahead, but to continue to sin and sin and sin and sin .. while mouthing platitudes about how you have to quit, have to stop, but just caaaan't do it, and years pass, and you're still falling off and on the wagon - I just don't see that as Christian behavior. Especially with the kind of addictive sin that damages marriages in this manner.

    I'm sorry but we all have hurt, abuse, sadness .. etc. I don't know anyone who has not experienced at least some of these things. But an adult Christian cannot hide him or herself in this manner, and there is no special dispensation for men to become addicted to porn because they were hurt or sad. None. Either that, or I don't know my Bible very well, because I fail to see that part. I'm not saying it's okay to be unloving to someone who has been hurt, because we should love people - it's a command to do so, even if we're not feeling it - but that doesn't mean that that person can just wallow in love, and never feel compelled to change. That's how enabling starts. "Poor Fred. He just can't stop getting off on watching prostitutes have sex." Really? I do feel sympathy for those who struggle with addiction - heck, I sometimes even have that spasm where I crazily think "I want a glass of wine. Just one glass of wine. Just let me buy that bottle of red that looks so appetizing. I can just have one glass. Just today. Just because it's Christmas/Easter/my birthday/Valentine's Day/Friday .." But it is crazy thinking, and I know it, and I don't do it. It's very possible to recognize what is beneath the lure of the forbidding (the devil himself) and refuse to go there, and reject that crazy thinking.
     
  2. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    That’s the problem. The person bound by pain, regret, fear, guilt, shame, disappointment, has taken the wheel. While they belong to God, they have taken the effort to numb the pain upon themselves. In addition, merely quitting the behavior is an effort of willpower… self. It’s not done through the Spirit. One has to mend the spirit else it’s just a work of fleshly willpower. One has to find the issue and give it to God and be healed. Do we fix ourselves through ourselves, or do we give ourselves to God and allow God to change our nature? An excellent book on this concept is titled, Grace Walk, by Tim McVey. Surrender, accept, and pray. Forgive and love. Soon, the desire fades and the soul is at peace. Spiritual growth and maturity into the fullness of Christ Jesus is what’s needed. Not an effort to do better. So many Christian men live life scared with boundaries, rules, laws, regulations, monitoring, “accountability partners”, etc. A walk of grace, marked by a healed nature is true freedom. And that isn’t found in well power, systems of accountability, or more rules and regulations. I’m talking about the supernatural power of true Christianity.

    Most don’t understand the nature of salvation. For example, if I asked what God’s intention for every human soul is… most Christians say, “To go to Heaven.” Nothing could be further from the truth. God’s desire is that we allow Him to conform us into the very image and likeness of Jesus. Most also don’t know why they struggle with sin after being saved. So they resort to “will power” and legalism to modify behavior. That’s a form of bondage in and of itself. It’s just seeking to be justified by the law, our own set of laws. Now, seeking oneness with the Father through the Holy Spirit, that’s abiding in Christ. He being the vine, we being the branches. He abiding the Father, we in Him, and He in us. A perichoretic spiritual indwelling. God seeks to be one with us. To be in us, not in the quantative sense, but the qualitative sense. He desires us to partake in His nature through the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. When we are saved and receive the Holy Spirit we become one spirit with the Lord. God and you are one organism. Athanasius said that God became man so that man could become God. It’s a union between you… and God. So upon being born again of the Spirit the human spirit becomes one with God, His life and righteousness flowing through it. However, a believer’s “soul” (Grk. Psuche, psyche, or mind) needs to be renewed daily through the Word of God. We have to apply the Word of God to the soul (psyche). This requires soul searching, confession, and repentance. You can’t repent of harboring bitterness, pain, guilt, shame, and burying it with self-destructive behaviors if you don’t take the time to search the soul and find them. A counselor (a “Christian” counselor) can really help to resolve these issues. One must align their mind with the Spirit by taking on the mind of Christ. Not by will power (memorizing how Jesus acted and copying Him) but by personal transformation through spiritually abiding in Him and He in in us. Again, I’m talking about a spiritual transformation. Not the “effort to do better” or to “be a better you”.

    True. However, we all respond differently. Temperament, and emotional maturity all play a part. When I was a medic in the Army I saw many men experience the same things. However, they each respond a little differently. I believe that your one size fits all approach, while sounding “strong” (in reality it’s not), it isn’t true. Anyone who has counseled individuals (both adults and children) after trauma, abuse, or deep emotional hurt, knows that everyone responds differently. Counseling allows one to have a mature Christian come alongside them in the journey and help them see things from a more objective place. It’s here that one discovers that they need to just stop (your position), forgive, heal, let go, etc. I’m saying that many men and women have hurt their spouses by not caring enough to engage in healing to wholeness. Most just want that man or woman to act differently. To that, I say, find a new one. Because unless they love and wish to help their suffering and bound partner no matter what… they just want to control what someone does (most often for what they perceive is the better). But that’s not healthy. We can’t force someone to be something they aren’t. Nor should we seek to force someone to continue to suppress pain, fear, anger, bitterness, or grief if it is indeed there. We have a tendency to want to force someone to be who we want them to be… NOW. And that is something just as damaging to a relationship as any behavior. I’ve seen couples bounce back from horrendous abuse and deception and be a stronger couple for it. Whole. Beautiful. Why? They accepted one another and took the journey necessary. Until then, couples just sit on opposite sides of the table, pointing fingers, and demanding that the other do something or stop doing something else. It’s actually sad. And when they are Christians… you wonder where Jesus is in their fight. Neither are being Christ.

    Ummm… the essence of the Gospel is a dispensation of grace for a hurting, wounded, and dying world. That includes those who struggle with lust. The sin has already been atoned for. If the cross has no power to atone for future sin... we have no hope today, over 2,000 years later. Also, the cross provides us "salvation" through Christ, not "probation".
    True love brings change Jane. Love’s power cannot go underestimated. Love, true love, will inspire a desire to be changed. I’ve seen wives LOVE and respect their husbands. And pray for them daily until God got a hold on the man’s heart. They didn’t nag, they didn’t ride, they didn’t’ argue, they didn’t pester, they didn’t judge. In fact, many of them maintained their husband’s dignity and refused to even reveal his struggle unless it was directly to their pastor or counselor. And when God changed the man’s heart… it was a change that is eternal, gracious, powerful, loving, supernatural. The women didn’t threaten suicide to get him to stop. They loved him into wholeness.
    P.S…. it goes both ways. Men need to love their wives into wholeness too. Too many men “lord” over their wives and “demand” changes that are not initiated by God. Sadly, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s not where so many women in our culture have gotten the same approach.

    LOL We all face temptations. I’m glad you know it’s crazy to give in to those thoughts. Have you ever seen someone come out of addiction or depression through sheer will power? I have. Many times the deeper issues aren’t addressed… and they know it. If they are Christian, they sense something is amiss in their Christianity, but they don’t understand what it is. And when they see someone in addiction or depression, they want to kick that person in the bottom and demand they get on their feet. When the person in their brokenness can’t… it reminds them on a deeper level of their own unaddressed issues. If they aren’t careful, they will smell blood and turn on the weak one…only to cause more pain and disappointment.
    I’d start by counting my blessings. Somewhere, someone’s husband has just hit a family van and killed an entire family after drinking. Somewhere, someone’s husband is pinned down under enemy fire that they will not survive this battle. Somewhere, someone’s husband is about to pull the trigger and take his own life. Somewhere, a family is starving to death. But in this thread someone has contemplated suicide because their husband is currently struggling with dirty movies and grappling with something deep in his heart. If I were them, I’d praise God that dirty movies is all it is and love him like there was no tomorrow. A struggling spouse is no greater a sinner than we are. We all have a disease in our flesh we call sin, even if our own symptoms are in remission. Let us take heed, lest we fall. Satan wants to turn this into the battle of a lifetime. And in reality… all that’s needed is a love that can heal and mend the human soul.

    I’m talking about an old time religion that makes you love everybody, not seek to control them or modify them. An old time religion that allows you to trust in the power and grace of God and His timing for one who is struggling with sin. I’m talking about something supernatural.

    P.S.
    We’ve talked about the soul (the psyche) and healing. But often the body needs healing too. Desires, moods, etc. are strongly influenced by hormones. I’ve yet to meet a woman who can deny the power of hormones as it relates to mood and desires. Men deal with hormones also. Those hormones can make a man irritable, irrational, and yes… some hormones can significantly increase physical desire for release. It’s part of a hardwired drive to procreate designed by God Himself. I’m not altogether sure if some men don’t face an overactive libido on account of these hormones being out of balance. Origen, an ancient theologian faced such a drive… he castrated himself. For a man to resort to that to attempt to curb his passions tells me a lot. Some men might also need a touch from God in their flesh (body) to bring things down to a reasonable level. We are fallen creatures. Sin has affected us and twisted us down to our very genetic level. Therefore, I believe that when battling the flesh we should understand that it comes with all kinds of issues ranging from biological issues, psychological issues, and spiritual issues. We must not be afraid to address all three aspects of man’s nature in our battle against sin and our quest for healing, wholeness, and conformity to Christ’s own nature and person.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  3. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    It's more than that. It's a rallying call, imo. It's a means and a way to live your life, to be reborn, to embrace what God has to offer you. To not do that - is to miss out on a LOT. Anyone can make a death bed conversion, but living as a convert? So much more satisfactory and joyful than waiting until the 11th hour.

    Then I guess I don't love my husband. Except I know that it doesn't happen that way. My husband's recovery is dependent upon my husband wanting recovery - and this is true for Peek's husband too. If they don't want recovery, you can love them heart and soul and they will not change.
     
  4. Aquila001

    Aquila001 Guest

    My point is that recovery is not enough. A recovered being, still bound by a sinful nature, is simply a "recovered" sinful being. They need a supernatural transformation, not recovery. You are right though, they have to want transformation. Beyond that, all you can do is love your husband and pray.
     
  5. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    Exactly! If I recover scrap metal from the bottom of the ocean... it's still just scrap metal. God desires a transformation! Our best efforts are often just self and fleshly will power. In Christianity our very nature is changed.
     
  6. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    A “rallying call”? Christ’s point is that we must crucify self and spiritually abide in Him. We do not strive to work or to correct ourselves to obey any list of rules. In fact, our quest as Christians is to spiritually abide in Christ (maintain a oneness of spirit between ourselves and Christ), surrender all self-originating works (rather they be good or bad), and walk after the indwelling Spirit. This produces spiritual fruit in our lives. I don’t see the Gospel as a religion one converts to with a list of rules that one must obey to be saved. Every religion has that. To me, Christianity is so much more… oneness with God through Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit. It is through our mortification of self (the flesh) and our union with Christ that our very nature is changed. Therefore, if one is struggling with a fleshly passion, the answer isn’t to try harder not to do it. The answer is delving more deeply into our spiritual union with Christ, increasing our love for Him through study, and reckoning ourselves crucified and abiding in Christ’s own Spirit, He increasingly living “His life” out through us. Instead of putting guards on the computer, monitory cell phones, having “accountability partners” (moral police), we are to be conformed into the very image and likeness of Jesus. Jesus is the standard. The answer to man dealing with the flesh and it’s desires is to fall more deeply in love with Jesus and seek greater union with Him through the Holy Spirit. So the end result is Christ in us… not an us that is obeying rules.

    No, I believe you do.

    Some want a changed nature and don’t know how to experience or find it. Some have searched through seminars, books, programs, partners, etc. all to no avail and they’ve given up in frustration. Some aren’t regenerated in their spirits and don’t have an inclination towards abiding in Christ. These are “religious” but not truly “saved” or “born again”. Tragically, some are deeply religious and “disciplined” through will power (flesh). They live clean lives… but they too are not “born again”.

    Christianity isn’t about performance. It isn’t a performance based religion. Many can’t grasp this because so many churches are deeply entrenched in legalism. Christianity and Christian living isn’t about what we do… it’s about what we are. Are we abiding in Christ, one with Him through the Spirit? Are we surrendering self (our own good and evil) and walking after the Spirit, growing and maturing into the image and likeness of Christ? And this is a lifelong journey. Our sins, temptations, etc. all serve to teach us about our nature and God’s grace. Our individual sinful actions are like symptoms to the actual problem…fallen and sinful flesh. Our sinful nature is like a disease. When we fall into temptation, compromise, and commit sin… the sin is only a symptom of the flesh flaring up and gaining control again. Our aim is to enter remission. We have the disease, but we do not exhibit the symptoms. And this is not done through trying harder… it’s done by resting in God’s love and grace through Jesus.

    So, when we “try harder” to modify our behavior through will power… we’re walking after the flesh. It doesn’t mean that our spirits have a new and abiding nature through a union with Jesus. Our entire being must be properly addressed: body (biology), soul (psyche), and spirit (living essence). When we continually “try harder” and lean on others to “try harder”, it only serves to frustrate the work of grace. We must not strive to be better… we must be Jesus. I had an elder tell me once, “God doesn’t want you to be a better you. God doesn’t like you. God wants you to die. You must reckon your ‘self’ to be crucified and thereby be supernaturally conformed into the image of Jesus. So trying to give God a better you doesn’t resolve your problem. You are your problem in every way. Be Jesus.” It’s hard to surrender your identity to Christ, and allow Him to consume you from the inside out. It’s hard to manage this flesh at times. But I know that I’m atoned for and that Jesus served as my propitiation. In God’s economy… I died the day I was baptized into Christ. From that time forward, God has only desired to see me increasingly become like Jesus. That track record has waxed and waned throughout the years. But I’m still abiding thus far. And it’s only by his grace.

    God is love. God’s love, as exhibited through the Gospel is transforming and is supernatural. I remember struggling with sin. I had a dear friend tell me, “You know that’s sin right?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “When you discover God’s love and who you truly are in Christ, you’ll want to lay it down.” I said, “You’re not asking me to stop?” He said, “No. Your fallen flesh has a sinful nature. It will do what it does. I can’t demand that a fish not swim. However, your spirit is regenerated. In your spirit you are holy and sinless before God because of His abiding nature. You feel distressed, depressed, and conflicted because your flesh desires things that are contrary to the nature of Jesus that’s been imparted into your spirit, and you have walked in your flesh. Repent, of allowing the flesh to drive you, and pray that God inspire you to surrender to the indwelling Spirit. You need inspiration…not more effort.”

    If your husband is saved... and he lacks desire to walk after the Spirit... he needs to repent of allowing the flesh to reign in his life... and pray for inspiration to rise into the fulness of Christ in himself.

    I’ve lived my life like this since and it’s been a joyous journey. So, this is why I’m so against works or effort based behavior modification.
     
  7. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    I guess I just disagree. That's fine.
     
  8. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    You do realize that you are essentially saying that we walk by human will power and not by the Spirit don’t you?

    Most struggle with this today, especially in the wake of so much rampant legalism. Christians have drifted into a performance based religion wherein our choices make us lords over our own destinies. Christians have neglected the understanding of “nature”. The nature of a thing is important, because it determines what that creature is. I like to use fish as an example. The very nature of a fish limits its abilities. It cannot walk. A fish swims. A fish can make all the “choices” it might want…but it is still shackled to the water.

    Even if a fish “gets religion” and tries to walk… it will flounder on the pier and die…or flop right back into the water to survive. A fish’s nature limits it to not being able to breathe air or walk. Our human nature is fallen and sinful. BY NATURE we are sinners. You see, we have free will. However, all that we are, including our will, is limited by that sinful nature. Every choice we make, everything we do, is tainted with “self” via the sin nature. So even if we “get religion” and try very hard to live right… guess what… it’s still flesh. It’s still rooted in self desire, self-will, and self-determination. On the natural level, that’s pretty good. One doesn’t need God or the Spirit to affect change in them using will. Alcohol Anonymous and other “addiction” programs function on this level.

    Christianity, biblical Christianity, is spiritual. You see, when God draws a soul to Himself and brings that soul to its knees with conviction, a kind of effectual grace that awakens the deadened human spirit and the soul becomes aware of its need for God. This leads to conversion and regeneration. When one is converted to Christ they repent of sin and are filled with the Spirit, born again. When we say “filled”… it doesn’t mean that God pours the Holy Spirit into you like a glass of water or something. It means that God pours out His Spirit into your very being. Your spirit and the Holy Spirit are essentially fused into a coinherent union. You are united with God through Christ, by the Holy Spirit. NOW your human spirit has partaken in the divine nature and is regenerated as God’s own life flows through it. Now, your soul (your mind) still needs renewal through the Word and prayer. So old habits die hard. The only problem is… when you do something rooted in the flesh that is against your new spiritual nature… you sense something is wrong. That’s the feeling of guilt, discomfort, or shame that a born again believer feels. The key is to renew your mind (repentance) and align your mind with the inner nature of God’s Spirit in accordance to the Word. We renew our mind through finding our identity in Christ. Drawing near and abiding in Him. The born again believer discovers that letting go of the “works of the flesh” brings peace. It’s not a struggle to restrain any longer. It’s a Christian’s quest to let go and be holy in accordance to that new inner nature.

    If a man is not regenerated he’s at home in sin because it’s against his very nature to be holy. He CANNOT choose to stop sinning. Even if he gets “religion” and chooses to “stop” through fleshly will… it’s still the flesh. As it is written:

    1 John 3:8-10
    New Living Translation (NLT)
    8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.
    So, if a man continues in habitual sin without remorse, depression, guilt, shame, and a desire to be free, hating his own sin… he’s most likely unregenerate. He might have religion. He might carry a Bible. He might go to church. He might even preach. But he’s as spiritually dead as a door knob. We could hound him to change all day long, but he wouldn’t feel the need to. He’s a child of the devil who is at home in his element (sin). And even if we convince him because of health problems that he might face (as with drugs or alcohol), it’s still just carnal will power. Such a man needs to repent of religion, self, and sin….turn to God… and be born again.

    See, Christianity isn’t about a change of behavior. It’s not about deeds. It’s not about trying harder. It’s not about performance. It’s about NATURE. God isn’t concerned with what you do. God is concerned with what you are. Because if you become what you should be by nature… your deeds will align in accordance to that nature. You’ll take to living for God… like a fish in water.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  9. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    I said no such thing, and I would thank you not to put words in my mouth.

    My perspective is very far removed from yours on this. I am a recovered addict and I know how it can be done. It's both a spiritual and a physical effort. If the addict does not stop engaging in their addiction, then all the counseling in the world will make zero difference.

    Ask yourself this - if this was a person beating their spouse, would you advocate, "just love them, they will get better .. one day"? Or if it were an adulterous spouse "just love them, wait, the spirit will turn them .. eventually"? I would hope not. I would hope you would be saying that the person needed to STOP that behavior first, and then seek help. That's true for any addiction.

    Yes, I do believe that the Gospel is partly a call to arms. Ephesians 4:24 calls on us to "put on the new self". Is that pro-active? Something to actively do? Or is it just waiting around for the new self to put itself on the old self with no intermediary?

    You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness

    Colossians 3:2 gives us instructions on what to do also - "Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."

    Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

    Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

    This is calling for action, and when I say "call to arms", I'm not talking about war in the literal sense - but this IS a call to arms for new behavior, for a new person, for the removal of what is evil and the taking on of what is good. Those are actions, they are changes in behaviors. The scripture calls for direct action.
     
  10. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    Yes, you are a recovered alcoholic. But you’ve not faced addiction to heroin, crack, ecstasy, coke, or sex addiction. And yes, you’ve been spiritually inspired and used your will power to break it. You’ve admitted to the same. I’m talking about something deeper.

    A man with an issue concerning dirty movies isn’t the same as someone who beats their spouse. Could we compare women who are “addicted” to steamy romance novels to people who beat their spouses? Of course not. Of course we advocate that the abused flee the abuser. And yes, for the sake of public safety we expect the abuser to stop, seek counseling, and find the issues that fuel the abusive behavior. But again, I’m talking about a change in nature. Not just behavior control.

    A dear brother left his wife in Ohio and moved to California for almost five years. He started drinking, got into drugs, alcohol, and yes… other women. He was belligerent and abusive over the phone and eventually stopped talking to her. They only communicated through his brother. A faithful Pentecostal woman, she prayed for him daily. She even cooked enough food for him to be served should he come home unannounced any given night. She told his brother to tell him that she loved him and that God had beautiful plans for him. She anointed his belongings with oil. At one point she felt God say, “It’s time. I’ve spared him on account of your prayers. I’m about to teach him what he most know. Then he will come home.” Within a week his brother overdosed. That sent him in a tail spin that landed him… at his wife’s front door weeping. She took him in, comforted him, and stood by him as he began making peace with God. He was still struggling with cocaine addiction. When he received the Holy Ghost at the altar he spoke in tongues for nearly an hour. The union between himself and the Holy Spirit was so powerful over half the church was on their knees worshiping throughout the altar service. After the altar service… the man had no desire for drugs again. The addiction was gone. Simply gone. All he wanted was more of God. It was having more of God that healed him. It didn’t take more effort. He was later baptized again (he wanted to rededicate) and became faithful to church once more. His wife is a woman of much Christian grace. She has never asked him or talked about his “wilderness” as she calls it. That was over ten years ago. Today he is a locally licensed preacher and minister of the church. When asked how she stood by him and didn’t lose heart she simply said, “I had faith that God was at work in him.” You see, she didn’t berate him. She didn’t ride him. She didn’t nag him. She didn’t “mother hen” him. She prayed as a faithful loving wife in the face of his infidelity. The children also got to see how mightily God works when we let go and let God.
    Amen. Notice something. We are to put off the old self, be renewed in the attitude of their minds, and put on the new self. This is a change of identity that takes place by faith. Do you see yourself as being one with the Lord through the Spirit? Do you understand the nature that now resides in you? Do you walk in the living reality that you are a branch of the vine, Jesus Christ? Here one is called to a changed ontological identity. They are not called to stop doing anything.
    We are to “set our minds” on heavenly things and not earthly things. Again, a focus of the mind. A focus of spiritual realities found only in Christ Jesus. No one is told to stop any behavior here.
    Again, we are to put to death sinful actions through putting on “the new self, which is being renewed in the knowledge and image of its Creator”. Again, reckoning our identity as new creatures by faith.

    Changed nature, a change in identity.
     
  11. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    The point is... stop trying to "control". That's not your place. You can't "control" him. All you can do is love him... and pray for him. Fasting helps also.


    Threatening suicide is a bit mentally unbalanced if you ask me.

    Turning your home into a prison where he has no privacy or respect is only contributing to the problem.

    You can love and pray. Love and pray. Love and pray. It's not your responsibility to change him. It's God's. Have faith in God. Don't nag. Give privacy, respect, and live a life of love that shines Christ. He'll be convicted as he sees your holiness and grace.

    Also be open. Be open to the reality that he might be struggling with something deep within his heart. Be open to the possibility that he needs medication or has hormonal issues. Any woman should know how deeply hormones can enfluence behavior and feelings. Imagine a hormone released into your system that activates your drive. Men are men. Women are women. It's always been this way. And it will always be this way. Be open to a wide range of additional issues or needs that your spouse might have. You are his wife. And frankly, should you face this kind of battle... he should do the same.

    Or... you guys can continue down a never ending road of pain and conflict. Let it go and let God. Just love your husband and have faith in God's power.
     
  12. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    Eh? I'm not the OP.
     
  13. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    Stopping is the beginning to it all which sounds ironic, but it's true. Until you clear your mind, you can't put on the new.

    I'm not going on here any further because I see the accusations coming through about "riding" husbands and "controlling" them, and it's just the same old.
     
  14. sdmsanjose

    sdmsanjose Regular Member

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    Good stuff Jane!!!

    You have been in addction and also have suffered in your marriage.
    In the addiction you have 6 years clean and with your marriage situation you have decided to honor God, your marriage, your children, and your self.

    In addition I think you have some spiritual wisdom, probably prompted by your situations. I know that we do not always agree on everythibg but I do admire your victories and your wisdom. I also noticed that you posted several scriptures to substantiate your positions; that adds a alot of credibility to your wisdom. Thanks Jane!
     
  15. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    Stopping isn't the beginning. There must be a "change", call it regeneration, call it a change of heart, call it a change of mind, call it repentance. The point is... something must happen inside BEFORE one can bring victory to the outside.

    As for "accusations" of controlling or riding husbands... it's not true for all women. I know many women who quietly pray for their husbands in all spiritual struggles be it anger, bitterness, lust, unbelief, depression, etc. I also know wives who have little compassion and are more like drill sergents. That's not an "accusation".... it's a fact. lol
     
  16. Stealth001

    Stealth001 Seeker

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    Jane,

    I'd also like to agree with another post here. I admire your victory against alcoholism. Maybe a lot of our differences come from our schools of theology. I lean Calvinst. I believe strongly that our behaviors are determined by our nature, not our choices. Else a man could simply "choose" to be sinless. I believe that the Bible teaches that due to our sin nature we find ourselves struggling with sinful impulses and even actions that we'd rather not commit because it's in the very nature of our flesh to sin. So, in my perspective, you gained the victory because of God's grace. Grace that was imparted to you and awakened you and opened your eyes to your condition. Grace that inspired you to change before your victory came. Grace that impowered you to overcome the moment you surrendered to it's convicting power. Therefore, I don't believe one can just "choose" to quit sinning. I believe they'll move from one sin to another perhaps... but without God's effectual grace working in the sinner, His own goodness that leads to repentance, a person is bound by their nature. So I have much patience and compassion with those that struggle with sin. I believe that they should be lavishly covered in love and prayer. And when God chooses to set them free... He will. And therein HE receives all the glory... not the one who proudly says, "I did it. I stopped. I used my will power."

    Also, I believe in a holistic approach. Man is body, soul, and spirit. Salvation and/or deliverance must touch every aspect of a man. Mortifying the flesh and taking the victory is only part of the battle. One must be spiritually empowered through God's regenerative Spirit. One's own soul (or psyche) must also face the deeper issues that feed the desires of the flesh. I'm all for wholeness. The healing of the entire person.

    Old school tough love neglects the soul and the spirit by simply saying, "Stop it now." Having been a medic in the Army, I am aware that men can do awesome things through sheer human will. However, I am also aware that the human condition, and our experiences in life, can deeply affect us and our behavior. I don't believe we should neglect those things, become chest beating moralists, and chant "Tough love. Tough love." I think this is far too important to do that.

    Threatening suicide to control another (even if it's for what you perceive to be their good) is manipulative and sick. Actually feeling suicidal over another's struggle is a serious psychological issue that needs to be addressed. Not coddled. They are a danger to themselves and others. Far more danger than their husband who watches dirty movies after everyone else is in bed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
  17. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    Okay, I am not the suicidal one, so I don't know why you continue to refer those comments to me. I am not involved in that situation. I disagree regardless. Obviously someone who is suicidal needs help, but not condemnation. Condemning someone who is depressed and desperate is more likely to make that person more desperate, not less. They need just as much love as the person who is sinning and is contributing to that desperation. There is a bad move afoot in Christianity to condemn people who have been hurt, and to turn the word "victim" into a bad word, as in "don't be such a victim" (contempt). There are genuine victims who do not deserve contempt. (No, I'm not naming myself as one.)

    I don't agree with that outlook that "it's just nature". Using that, I could have continued to drink myself into oblivion. I don't believe that I did move from that sin to another, although of course I still sin, just not in that manner. I didn't replace that addiction with another though.

    To me it's just laziness to say that God will set a person free one day. It allows the person to just do whatever they want to do, for as long as they want to - including the rapist, the abuser etc. You can't say it only applies to some people and not others, because if it applies to one it will apply to all.

    Also, I don't attribute quitting alcohol to my own effort and the only pride I feel is in my sobriety - that I continue to be sober, because it is MY effort, and MY prayers, and GOD's grace that keeps me sober. But, however, *I* had to initiate that sobriety. I had to consciously decide to STOP. I made that decision and then I fought with myself for days, and yes I prayed my heart out. Without God in the mix, it would not have happened, and in fact I doubt I would have felt as compelled to quit if I had not felt when I became a Christian a massive compulsion to quit - that God wanted me sober. But I was the one who decided to STOP and not pick up another bottle, and without that thought, it would not have happened.

    I really don't want to continue this on because, as you said, we come from two entirely different places. I can't agree with your perspective. I disagree with it entirely in fact. I don't agree that we are just puppets - I KNOW that God gave us free will. So, I will just leave it there.
     
  18. JaneFW

    JaneFW New Member

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    Thank you Stan. I really appreciate that you said that and I also appreciate YOU. :hug:
     
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