Stumbling block in forgivness

[FanthatSpark]

Hi Forum & Gods blessings,

Where to start, where to start ... For me, a stumbling block is in place in Spiritual conceptual thinking. To make this a flowing fellowship with little work involved for the reader in reference to the Word, the following links in topic of this post in parts. What Does the Bible Say About Forgiving?

Pain. Weather physical or mental is to be forgiven by us the vessel in accordance to scripture of mankind (See link above). Stumbling block lies for me in Spiritual pain caused by sin/devil/self/my nature that we all suffer in different ways but comes back to our own sin/deceiver/devil/father/our nature John 8:42-47(Use Bible). Question lies in if we forgive in physical then should not we forgive in Spiritual of devil/self/sin/our nature that is constantly bombarding thoughts to please the flesh = conscious in physical & spirit/thoughts?

Bet a lot of yall are saying ,Huh? What is this mad man speaking of?
Why stumbling blocks of course .

I am speaking to those that know who our father is (Devil, John 8: 42-47) and has accepted that it is out of Love/Hope/Grace & light etc etc that God chose the vessel in us to impart the baptism in the Spirit to forsake our father the devil in obedience to God and knows that without God one is truly lost .
What Does the Bible Say About For All Good Things Come Through God?

Acceptance of who our father is, is paramount to identifying the problem inside of us all correct? Does not mean we like it, just means we are born dark and strive to the light in goodness that is of God.
What Does the Bible Say About Devil Is Our Father?

So... Should we the vessel forgive Satan as scripture states to forgive mankind that is Satan/born of sin and let God meet out justice if any? Or , because we forgive mankind, is it not the same as forgiving Satan for being what he is...

Pain, physical, mental and Spiritual, and the author of that voice inside of us all bombarding us in Spiritual warfare that is evil in concept to gratify self -vs- that other voice that says self is secondary too God/love/hope/faith/another as he/she sins against us. God gives grace in sin for loves sake in hope we come to Him right? Is this not giving grace for a time to Satan too?

So, in Spiritual conceptual thinking, judge not lest I be judged & perfection in love, demands, I forgive Satan too right? This vessel is limited in either love or hate in that it can hold but one at the time, so if love is the choice, then hate is not in me for he/devil is of Gods creation too and this vessel must let God deal in matters of Satan while in limited capacity this vessel must forgive in perfection of love correct? If this vessel holds to hate Satan then in that hate is the juxtaposition to my own Spirit correct?

What Does the Bible Say About Perfection Of Love?

Deeep fellowship here boys and girls, men & women. Please meditate on this for a time to loose emotional ties to anything here in that may provoke a follower to lash out in emotional passion in this personal stumbling block of this vessel... All that is sought... Is this concept correct or incorrect in source = Good/God -vs- Bad/Satan and forgive the "source" and not just the tools the "source" uses if love is the choice one follows?

 

[Emmy]

Dear FanthatSpark. You talk of quite a few questions, may I start with the first: forgiveness. Jesus Himself taught us in the Prayer:" Our Father who art in Heaven." In it Jesus tells us: " Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us." That is straightforward and easy to understand. We ask God here to forgive us our sins, as we will forgive those who sin against us.
That should make it easy enough for us to FORGIVE. We are asking God to forgive us our sins, as we ourselves will forgive others.
I say this with love, FanthatSpark. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Emma & Blessings,

In this format know that this vessel comes in meekness to fellowship in things that stick into this vessels head for a while now. So, lets begin

Matt 6:9-15
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If one takes your verse Emmy 12, and puts the rest of what is said about verses 9-13 in verses 14 & 15 then forgiveness of the tools of the "source/Satan" is forgiven. For me, a stumbling block is in place about the source.

God Abhorreth :What Does the Bible Say About God Abhorreth?

If God abhors sin/Satan should I not too? The problem arises in my limited capacity to emotion and New Testament teaching in love. Abhorrence can not be held in love by mankind if one dwells in charity, hope and faith 1Cor. 13: 4-13. We are just limited like that lol.

So , because of limitations in holding two emotions at once...

Abhorrence can lead to hate and hate can lead to sin but love leads to
God for God is love 1 John 4:16 then because of my limitations should I not forgive even Satan and let God abhor?

 

[brinny]

Hi brother. Did Jesus die on the cross for Satan?

Jus' askin'

 

[FanthatSpark]

brinn brinn!!

Interesting question that. If he died for Sin then ??? Who authors sin? The lay down answer is, "Us", "Our" . However, the tree of good and evil is the Source . All we know is us, our but what of the sin as an abstract thing we know as thought/deeds/pain/suffering of sin through the knowledge of the tree? How do I forgive the man without forgiving the source too and let Gods Will deal with source/Lucifer ?

What Does the Bible Say About Jesus Died For?

In Rom 5:8 it states "Us".

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.<-- Can that include principalities too that interact with the tools/mankind?

In that verse lies mysteries for this vessel as the OP is a mystery in, Spiritual concept of perfecting love in a limited vessel in emotional states.

Whatcha think? Merit to the concept or (and this is the easiest
choice-->) dat dude is crazy . Thanks for comen in and partaking of a deeper fellowship wit yur brother in the walk Brinny. Gods blessings. Oh yeah, I was fellowshipping with a brother and he put this on the table...

If you could save anothers life by a simple action of reaching out and just pushing them out of the way; would you do it? I said, of course I would. He says next...Why do you sit here and let that stranger (we are sitting in a park as people are walking by) go to his "true death" in ignorance of Jesus ?

Mayhap you can share dat with a fellow follower, or not . Blessings Brinny.

 

[brinny]

Sparks!!!

Who was made in the image of God?

Jus' askin'

 

[Norah63]

Keep going Brinny, good lines!
Simple and pure.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Gods blessings & Brinny , Nora.

So God is love John 4:8 = New Covenant in part in Matt 5:38-48 but concentrate on 45.

We being in His image "I" must assume "you" agree the concept of OP has merit but speak in mystery ?
That is the problem in over simplifying, is assumption . Praise God
in His grace !!!

 

[brinny]

Howdy again Sparks

How does God define Satan?

Jus' Askin'

 

[FanthatSpark]

see OP for that.

 

[brinny]

perhaps i'm missing it? I don't see where Satan is defined by God in the OP?

Just a note: those who are not saved are Satan's, however once one becomes a believer, God is their Father.

 

[FanthatSpark]

I get it, that we should be God "like". But , we have the ability to hold sin where God can not, thus a choice must be made to hold love only or hate only and because of the ability and or limitation in us, sin. We can only be an image and not hold to hate as God can out of His purity of no sin in Him. This ability is actually a limitation in our nature for to hold hate comes negativity or "Not Love" in purest form and no matter how hard one tries it is impossible because of our ability/limitation of holding sin.

Thus, with ability/limitation recognized and set aside for scrutiny, one asks, because we are not equipped to hate in purest form as only God can. Then, does it not stand to reason in the new covenant, as love as my choice, does not that demand "I" forgive the source because "I" can not hate in purity in my ability/limitation to hold sin?

 

[FanthatSpark]

perhaps i'm missing it? I don't see where Satan is defined by God in the OP?

Just a note: those who are not saved are Satan's, however once one becomes a believer, God is their Father.

Agreed , John 8:44 is Devil defined by God / Jesus.

 

[brinny]

I get it, that we should be God "like". But , we have the ability to hold sin where God can not, thus a choice must be made to hold love only or hate only and because of the ability and or limitation in us, sin. We can only be an image and not hold to hate as God can out of His purity of no sin in Him. This ability is actually a limitation in our nature for to hold hate comes negativity or "Not Love" in purest form and no matter how hard one tries it is impossible because of our ability/limitation of holding sin.

Thus, with ability/limitation recognized and set aside for scrutiny, one asks, because we are not equipped to hate in purest form as only God can. Then, does it not stand to reason in the new covenant, as love as my choice, does not that demand "I" forgive the source because "I" can not hate in purity in my ability/limitation to hold sin?

Did/does the 'source' of sin seek forgiveness from God?

Jus' askin'

 

[FanthatSpark]

Now that is another concept altogether in principalities . There in lies ignorance in self, but what is given in the Word, in part, of Lucifer the Ark angle. If forgiveness could be granted in "us" weather he wants it or not then has he not lost the war in principalities? Keep in mind our ability/limitation to hold hate/sin? This clears the slate so we may be forgiven right? Just asken .

Now comes God in His ability to hold hate in pureness of no sin in Him (Note the huge gulf between Him and us) on the day of Lucifer's Judgment. His judgment is different from ours/mankind for he is of the angles where no faith is required and he knowingly discarded love of us choosing evil. Us, on the other hand forgives Lucifer in turning limitation to ability in sin to choose love and forgiveness . Note: the turning of ability & limitation has been turned around. God can hold no sin. We can, but choose love and the forgiveness required so we may be forgiven.

All this thread is based on our inability to hold hate in pureness as God can (Gulf).Thus, is it not because of this limitation, the juxtaposition of free will in Spirit which is unique in us/mankind that we hold sin and even God can not. We have free will to choose love/good through being born in sin/evil/negativity/life experiences/ and adversities from a baby until one says, "enough hate in me!", and seeks God/love Gospel and applies Rom:12:2 to restructure the id to perfection in love.

1 John 4:18 even unto punishment of the source coupled to Gen 3:5, where in, we participate in evil and God can not, but, He knows of it. Yet as a believer, we choose love through all the adversity of sin/source and our limitation to hold hate has now turned into ability to not entertain hate in our choice of love but we know of hate/evil for we were born and lived in it. Our knowledge comes from living it "sin/evil". Gods knowledge of sin/evil just is, for He can not live in it. Thus Jesus's death by whose hand? Ours or the source ? If one chooses source/sin made flesh in us, as the Word made flesh, in Jesus (vessels in mankind vs vessel for God). Then Jesus died for Source to forgive source weather he wanted it or not out of love in the laws & parameters of flesh? Wheew wordy that eh . Well any whoo...

 

[brinny]

Is God capable of error?

Jus' askin'

 

[FanthatSpark]

Gods blessings Brinny,

No, but Satan is. Error in free will of choosing hate when he knew love. Opposite stands true in mankind
to be born in hate/sin (no choice in that due to sources choice) and for the chosen that hear Rom:12:2 transform there id to perfecting love and no longer conform to world/hate/sin suffered/from another or transgressed/to another even the source right? Is that not perfection in love & hope? Statements like, "the devil made me do it", come to nil if a person comes to perfecting love/faith/hope/forgiveness out of living in sin = experience (keep in mind our inability to hold hate in entire thread above).

Break down = Satan knew love but chose pride to show us evil, however knows not the experiences of evil to himself. Mankind must find love & truth through living in evil & lies in all aspects our lives have to offer = The Word. Thus, the question remains, in perfect love in a human, who can not hold hate in limitations of living in sin, that human should forgive even the source in his error of choice now that we have lived through sin and chose love right? Who can wish harm to another being known and unknown when one went through evil to come to love? Which stands to reason that we be better than Satan in forgiving his nature in perfected love when he did not right? Kinda like this statement..."I wouldn't wish that on anybody." That usually is said out of experience. So does one take the moral high ground in forgiving the source? Keep in mind "anybody" refers to bodies unknown too if one chooses the truth in the NT. Just asken lol.

 

[brinny]

Is Jesus the Christ (the only begotten Son of El Elyon, the Most High, the living God, the God of the living) the Way, the Truth, and the Life as He says He is?

Jus' askin'

 

[FanthatSpark]

Yes, and what does He teach? Love ... Right?

 

[brinny]

If Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, does that mean that He always speaks the truth?

Jus' askin'