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Exploring Christianity
Reality vs Non-Reality
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<blockquote data-quote="leftrightleftrightleft" data-source="post: 59797050" data-attributes="member: 246343"><p>Haha...the title of this thread is "reality vs. non-reality". How were you expecting to avoid metaphysics when the title of the thread is metaphysical in nature?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>It seems you've already decided what is reality for yourself and because you've assumed it, it seems self-evident. The whole topic of this thread is questioning this very assumption. You've assumed that what is real must be physical and material. To you, anyone who says otherwise is just deluded.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Its true that you can put your faith in the government and God in similar ways but most people aren't having to the put their faith in the government's actual existence. Even if someone does not put their faith in the government, they'll likely still acknowledge the government's existence. You're right, its not the same with God. Generally, those that don't put their faith in God also don't even acknowledge his existence. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>One of the primary differences between God and leprechauns is that leprechauns are posited as being physical and material objects. Since you are defining reality as things that are physical and material, it is easy to say that leprechauns don't exist because they have not been observed, have left no evidence etc. </p><p> </p><p>However, with God, the only way you can ever acknowledge God's existence is that if you acknowledge that things can exist that are not physical and material. The only way you can acknowledge God's existence is if you get rid of your assumption of materialism. Because I agree that God does not physically exist. He is not like a leprechaun.</p><p> </p><p>There are thousands of things that we say "exist" that do not fulfill your definitions of "existence". Love, consciousness and the sky are three examples I often give. Even if you are a reductionist and you reduce love down to its constituent parts of brain chemicals and molecular interactions you still must admit that "love" as a thing in itself "exists" insofar as it is a thing that people acknowledge, recognize, experience and even need. Even if it is an emergent property from a complex system of physical things, you must admit that love <em>itself</em> is not a material or physical property or thing. Consciousness follows in a similar way except it is not even a unique experience like love but it is Experience itself; without consciousness, experience doesn't even exist. The sky exists insofar as when you look up you recognize it as the sky but if you kept going up and up you wouldn't ever really "reach" the sky because it has no physical existence.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="leftrightleftrightleft, post: 59797050, member: 246343"] Haha...the title of this thread is "reality vs. non-reality". How were you expecting to avoid metaphysics when the title of the thread is metaphysical in nature? It seems you've already decided what is reality for yourself and because you've assumed it, it seems self-evident. The whole topic of this thread is questioning this very assumption. You've assumed that what is real must be physical and material. To you, anyone who says otherwise is just deluded. Its true that you can put your faith in the government and God in similar ways but most people aren't having to the put their faith in the government's actual existence. Even if someone does not put their faith in the government, they'll likely still acknowledge the government's existence. You're right, its not the same with God. Generally, those that don't put their faith in God also don't even acknowledge his existence. One of the primary differences between God and leprechauns is that leprechauns are posited as being physical and material objects. Since you are defining reality as things that are physical and material, it is easy to say that leprechauns don't exist because they have not been observed, have left no evidence etc. However, with God, the only way you can ever acknowledge God's existence is that if you acknowledge that things can exist that are not physical and material. The only way you can acknowledge God's existence is if you get rid of your assumption of materialism. Because I agree that God does not physically exist. He is not like a leprechaun. There are thousands of things that we say "exist" that do not fulfill your definitions of "existence". Love, consciousness and the sky are three examples I often give. Even if you are a reductionist and you reduce love down to its constituent parts of brain chemicals and molecular interactions you still must admit that "love" as a thing in itself "exists" insofar as it is a thing that people acknowledge, recognize, experience and even need. Even if it is an emergent property from a complex system of physical things, you must admit that love [I]itself[/I] is not a material or physical property or thing. Consciousness follows in a similar way except it is not even a unique experience like love but it is Experience itself; without consciousness, experience doesn't even exist. The sky exists insofar as when you look up you recognize it as the sky but if you kept going up and up you wouldn't ever really "reach" the sky because it has no physical existence. [/QUOTE]
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