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Exploring Christianity
Reality vs Non-Reality
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<blockquote data-quote="lucaspa" data-source="post: 59778005" data-attributes="member: 4882"><p>The first lines of the text in the paper:</p><p>"I<span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">n 1871, Mitchell</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px">1 </span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">used the term &#8220;phantom limb&#8221; to describe</span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">the commonly reported sensation that an amputated</span></span></p></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">limb is still present. In the intervening years, many</span></span></p></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">studies have been performed to evaluate pain, including</span></span></p><p></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">phantom-limb pain, after amputation</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px">2-8</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">."</span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">So yes, the paper does discuss phantom limb pain. They are testing to see whether their voluntary patients have it.</span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">The Discussion starts with:</span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">"T<span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">he present retrospective cohort study demonstrated</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">substantial improvement in patient outcomes after</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">below-the-knee amputations performed for intractable foot</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">and ankle pain in limbs that were considered unreconstructible."</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">Later in the Discussion we find a contrast in the results of the study to:</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">"<span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Many studies have been performed to assess the levels of</span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">pain and function in amputees</span></span></span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px">4-10,12-15,20</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">, but none of those studies</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">focused specifically on the results of below-the-knee amputations</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">performed because of intractable pain due to a</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">posttraumatic, degenerative, or anatomically focal pathological</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">condition of the foot or ankle. The relevance of the information</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">derived from studies of patients with different disease</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">processes, different indications for amputation, and different</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">levels of amputation is uncertain.</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span><p style="text-align: left"></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span><p style="text-align: left"></p> </p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><p style="text-align: left"></p> </p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><p style="text-align: left"></p> </p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><p style="text-align: left"></p> </p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Similar levels of pain frequency and intensity have been</span></span></span></span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">documented in studies of amputations due to trauma. In an</span></span></span></span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">analysis of 2694 amputees who were veterans of the United</span></span></span></span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">States military, Sherman et al.</span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px">14 </span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">reported that 78% of the individuals</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">had some phantom pain and, of those, 56% reported</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">that their pain decreased or resolved completely. No correlation</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">was noted between the preamputation level of pain, the</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">development of phantom pain, and the ultimate level of pain.</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">In a similar analysis of 526 amputees who were veterans of the</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">British military, Wartan et al.</span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px">8 </span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">reported that 55% of the individuals</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">had some phantom pain and, of those, 53% reported</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">that the pain decreased or resolved completely. Both of those</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">studies, however, included both upper and lower extremity</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">amputations as well as amputations proximal and distal to the</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">knee. ... </span></span><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">Parkes</span></span></span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 9px">5</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px">, in a study of forty-six patients with both</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">upper and lower extremity amputations, found that 50% of the</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">patients had persistent phantom-limb pain. The persistence of</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">phantom-limb pain was correlated with unemployment, persistent</span></span></p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">illness, and a rigid, self-reliant personality."</span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">This is what they are comparing their results to. They are studies in the literature with high levels of phantom-limb pain. But their patients don't have any. Instead, the pre-op pain they have been experiencing goes away with a below the knee amputation. No feeling a limb that isn't there. </span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">Now, why you wanted to lie about what was in the study is unknown. Apparently it was an excuse not to listen to what I have to say. If what you wanted to do was put your fingers in your ears and yell "Nyahh, nyahh, I can't hear you." you could have done that. You didn't need to lie about what the study said or what I wrote about it.</span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Minion-Regular'">Fortunately, the boards are set up so that I can still respond to what you say to others, so my fellow Christians can see the arguments. <img src="/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/old/wave.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wave:" title="wave :wave:" data-shortname=":wave:" /></span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span></span></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lucaspa, post: 59778005, member: 4882"] The first lines of the text in the paper: "I[FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]n 1871, Mitchell[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1]1 [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]used the term “phantom limb” to describe[/SIZE][/FONT] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]the commonly reported sensation that an amputated[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]limb is still present. In the intervening years, many[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]studies have been performed to evaluate pain, including[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]phantom-limb pain, after amputation[/FONT][/SIZE] [/SIZE][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1]2-8[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]."[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]So yes, the paper does discuss phantom limb pain. They are testing to see whether their voluntary patients have it.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]The Discussion starts with:[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]"T[FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]he present retrospective cohort study demonstrated[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]substantial improvement in patient outcomes after[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]below-the-knee amputations performed for intractable foot[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]and ankle pain in limbs that were considered unreconstructible."[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]Later in the Discussion we find a contrast in the results of the study to:[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]"[FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]Many studies have been performed to assess the levels of[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]pain and function in amputees[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [/size][/font][/font][/size][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1]4-10,12-15,20[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2], but none of those studies[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]focused specifically on the results of below-the-knee amputations[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]performed because of intractable pain due to a[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]posttraumatic, degenerative, or anatomically focal pathological[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]condition of the foot or ankle. The relevance of the information[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]derived from studies of patients with different disease[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]processes, different indications for amputation, and different[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]levels of amputation is uncertain.[/FONT][/SIZE] [/LEFT][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/LEFT][/FONT][LEFT][LEFT][/left][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][LEFT][/left][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][LEFT][/left][/left][/FONT][LEFT][LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]Similar levels of pain frequency and intensity have been[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]documented in studies of amputations due to trauma. In an[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]analysis of 2694 amputees who were veterans of the United[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]States military, Sherman et al.[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [/size][/font][/LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1]14 [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]reported that 78% of the individuals[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]had some phantom pain and, of those, 56% reported[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]that their pain decreased or resolved completely. No correlation[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]was noted between the preamputation level of pain, the[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]development of phantom pain, and the ultimate level of pain.[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]In a similar analysis of 526 amputees who were veterans of the[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]British military, Wartan et al.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1]8 [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2]reported that 55% of the individuals[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]had some phantom pain and, of those, 53% reported[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]that the pain decreased or resolved completely. Both of those[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]studies, however, included both upper and lower extremity[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]amputations as well as amputations proximal and distal to the[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]knee. ... [/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]Parkes[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [/size][/font][/font][/size][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=1]5[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2], in a study of forty-six patients with both[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Minion-Regular][SIZE=2] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]upper and lower extremity amputations, found that 50% of the[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]patients had persistent phantom-limb pain. The persistence of[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]phantom-limb pain was correlated with unemployment, persistent[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]illness, and a rigid, self-reliant personality."[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]This is what they are comparing their results to. They are studies in the literature with high levels of phantom-limb pain. But their patients don't have any. Instead, the pre-op pain they have been experiencing goes away with a below the knee amputation. No feeling a limb that isn't there. [/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]Now, why you wanted to lie about what was in the study is unknown. Apparently it was an excuse not to listen to what I have to say. If what you wanted to do was put your fingers in your ears and yell "Nyahh, nyahh, I can't hear you." you could have done that. You didn't need to lie about what the study said or what I wrote about it.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Minion-Regular]Fortunately, the boards are set up so that I can still respond to what you say to others, so my fellow Christians can see the arguments. :wave:[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT] [/LEFT] [/QUOTE]
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