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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Primordial Soup Based Origin of Life
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<blockquote data-quote="CarlosTomy" data-source="post: 64109800" data-attributes="member: 338149"><p>Actually I am recognizing the primary problem. This complexity of which you speak is NOT beyond these bounds (and I must point out that chemistry isn't really "random", while there are stochastic drivers to reactions, it would be technically improper to consider it purely random since there are rules and "biases" that drive reactions, etc.).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And RNA and DNA are chemical compounds. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So? There is still no indication that such requires an Intelligent Designer. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But this is simply arguing from incredulity of the probabilities. That still doesn't mean it cannot happen without an intelligent designer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually it is not. Think about it from a non-supernatural/non-theistic view (which is what ID comes assymptotically close to doing).</p><p></p><p>You want these probabilities to be so low as to eliminate the very possibility of the chemistry working.</p><p></p><p>But given that the chemicals are all following the exact same chemistry seen all across nature (without any intelligent designer necessary to run it) and given that no reactions are occuring that cannot occur (even with a catalyst, and remember, catalysts exist throughout nature, some inorganic, some organice) then one has all the pieces parts necessary to explain life's origins if not yet the exact step-by-step process.</p><p></p><p>If I come across a chemical product that is a natural complex molecule; do I assume that the ONLY way there is to have arrived at this was through an intelligent agent? Or am I allowed to first assume that common reactions could have formed it?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean other than the known chemical reactions which CAN result in many of these products?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course it does! By definition. The physical realm is the only thing we can all agree exists and we all experience it roughly the same.</p><p></p><p>The "Spiritual Realm" is experienced differently by all observers and arrives at gods in plenty many of whom are mutually exclusive of other gods meaning that these two gods cannot co-exist, yet in the MINDS OF THE COLLECTIVE OF BELIEVERS they do.</p><p></p><p>It is as if we have a physical realm in which a single force acts to repel things according to some observers and attract things to others and yet a third group of observers fails to see any force at all.</p><p></p><p>The spiritual realm is not testable or useful there. The physical realm, while imperfectly known is still at least TESTABLE.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CarlosTomy, post: 64109800, member: 338149"] Actually I am recognizing the primary problem. This complexity of which you speak is NOT beyond these bounds (and I must point out that chemistry isn't really "random", while there are stochastic drivers to reactions, it would be technically improper to consider it purely random since there are rules and "biases" that drive reactions, etc.). And RNA and DNA are chemical compounds. So? There is still no indication that such requires an Intelligent Designer. But this is simply arguing from incredulity of the probabilities. That still doesn't mean it cannot happen without an intelligent designer. Actually it is not. Think about it from a non-supernatural/non-theistic view (which is what ID comes assymptotically close to doing). You want these probabilities to be so low as to eliminate the very possibility of the chemistry working. But given that the chemicals are all following the exact same chemistry seen all across nature (without any intelligent designer necessary to run it) and given that no reactions are occuring that cannot occur (even with a catalyst, and remember, catalysts exist throughout nature, some inorganic, some organice) then one has all the pieces parts necessary to explain life's origins if not yet the exact step-by-step process. If I come across a chemical product that is a natural complex molecule; do I assume that the ONLY way there is to have arrived at this was through an intelligent agent? Or am I allowed to first assume that common reactions could have formed it? You mean other than the known chemical reactions which CAN result in many of these products? Of course it does! By definition. The physical realm is the only thing we can all agree exists and we all experience it roughly the same. The "Spiritual Realm" is experienced differently by all observers and arrives at gods in plenty many of whom are mutually exclusive of other gods meaning that these two gods cannot co-exist, yet in the MINDS OF THE COLLECTIVE OF BELIEVERS they do. It is as if we have a physical realm in which a single force acts to repel things according to some observers and attract things to others and yet a third group of observers fails to see any force at all. The spiritual realm is not testable or useful there. The physical realm, while imperfectly known is still at least TESTABLE. [/QUOTE]
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