[PERMANENTLY CLOSED]"Pigs in a blanket" Black Lives Matter Chant During Police Escorted March

[Red Fox]

There is the problem. Not everybody is being treated equal.

And as a Native American, I can attest to this truth, both from personal experience and knowing the racial discrimination and stereotyping my people still face in this country. I know from personal experience, as a Native American, that not every person in this country is treated equally and not all lives are valued equally by the majority.

 

[The Cadet]

All lives matter. That's the truth.

Yes. Just like when you are with your family at the diner, the phrase, "We should all get to eat what we ordered" is the truth. However, if it's coming from your spouse after the kitchen gave you the wrong order (while everyone else got the right order) and you said, "I should get to eat what I ordered", it might come across as dismissive and mean. "What, does she think I don't think they should get what they ordered? They already got what they ordered; everyone else is doing just fine!" Fundamentally, this is the problem here:

"All lives matter" treats everyone equally valueable.

It doesn't. It just doesn't. In a vacuum, with absolutely no cultural context, it's an equitable, reasonable statement. But we aren't in a vacuum, and given the context, it's what your hypothetical spouse said to you at your hypothetical restaurant: a dismissive response to a group of the populace saying, "Hang on, we're being treated unfairly", dismissing their claims as irrelevant and saying "we all should be treated fairly" as if their problems didn't matter.

The problem here is that everyone else already is being treated fairly, and nothing in #BlackLivesMatter devalues anyone else's life. What, do you think the people saying "Save the rainforest" mean "Save only the rainforest and slash and burn all the others"? No, they're drawing specific attention to a specific issue. Same deal with #BlackLivesMatter. Of course the people saying that understand that white lives matter too. EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT WHITE LIVES MATTER. Even the police. At the same time, it seems like people don't understand that black lives matter. Not in the same way, anyways.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I am sure they understand they they also hurt themselves. Do you believe that they don't?

Well, I'm not sure as there only seems to be an objection or a movement or a protest or a word said when the killing is done by someone of a different racial group. If I go to my neighbor and complain about something he is doing while I am doing the same thing but even more than he is what is my neighbor supposed to think about that?

 

[Tallguy88]

There is the problem. Not everybody is being treated equal.

But isn't that the goal?

 

[TerranceL]

All this talk of 'all lives matter' is a red herring. The 'black lives matters' movement is not saying that the other lives don't matter, it is about how the black community has been singled out and punished more than the others.

They are seemingly saying that the only lives that matter are those taken by cops, otherwise they would be talking about how if a black person is going to be murdered the chances are overwhelming that they'll be killed by another black person.

 

[JustOneWay]

But isn't that the goal?

Their purpose:

#BlackLivesMatter is an online forum intended to build connections between Black people and our allies to fight anti-Black racism, to spark dialogue amongst Black people, and to facilitate the types of connections necessary to encourage social action and engagement.

All lives matter would not have the same purpose because all lives are not black lives.

 

[stamperben]

Either all lives matter or they don't. Or some matter more than others.

"All lives matter" treats everyone equally valueable. I don't know about the movement itself, but from a coalition building standpoint, it certainly is attractive to a larger segment of the population than just saying one particular group's lives matter.

The sheriff here in Houston, his life matters more than other's do. Didn't read the link in this post?

 

[TerranceL]

I am sure they understand they they also hurt themselves. Do you believe that they don't?

The problem is not seeing the forest for the trees, things would be interesting if they were more concerned by the many killed by other blacks than the minuscule few killed by police.

 

[Tallguy88]

Yes. Just like when you are with your family at the diner, the phrase, "We should all get to eat what we ordered" is the truth. However, if it's coming from your spouse after the kitchen gave you the wrong order (while everyone else got the right order) and you said, "I should get to eat what I ordered", it might come across as dismissive and mean. "What, does she think I don't think they should get what they ordered? They already got what they ordered; everyone else is doing just fine!" Fundamentally, this is the problem here:



It doesn't. It just doesn't. In a vacuum, with absolutely no cultural context, it's an equitable, reasonable statement. But we aren't in a vacuum, and given the context, it's what your hypothetical spouse said to you at your hypothetical restaurant: a dismissive response to a group of the populace saying, "Hang on, we're being treated unfairly", dismissing their claims as irrelevant and saying "we all should be treated fairly" as if their problems didn't matter.

The problem here is that everyone else already is being treated fairly, and nothing in #BlackLivesMatter devalues anyone else's life. What, do you think the people saying "Save the rainforest" mean "Save only the rainforest and slash and burn all the others"? No, they're drawing specific attention to a specific issue. Same deal with #BlackLivesMatter. Of course the people saying that understand that white lives matter too. EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT WHITE LIVES MATTER. Even the police. At the same time, it seems like people don't understand that black lives matter. Not in the same way, anyways.

I don't support BLM, not because they dont, but because of some of the acts that have been perpetuated by members of that organization are criminal and agains what I believe in. Not to say all members are like that or believe that, but I won't associate with them since the organization won't repudiate these actions.

On a side note, I don't really like the police either and think there does need to be more accountability, body cams, etc. So there is common ground.

 

[Red Fox]

I don't support BLM, not because they dont, but because of some of the acts that have been perpetuated by members of that organization are criminal and agains what I believe in. Not to say all members are like that or believe that, but I won't associate with them since the organization won't repudiate these actions.

I support the movement because I feel solidarity with its initial purpose, although I don't condone the bad acts or behavior perpetuated by some its members.

On a side note, I don't really like the police either and think there does need to be more accountability, body cams, etc. So there is common ground.

And I definitely agree with you about more sufficient monitoring or policing of the police.

 

[Gadarene]

I am sure they understand they they also hurt themselves. Do you believe that they don't?

Given that Black Lives Matter is only wheeled out when there is a white person to blame, no.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Black Lives matter, unless you're a black cop.

 

[Gadarene]

Here's a take on Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter.

“All lives matter” is meaningful as an aspiration. Stated as a claim about present conditions, it is a lie that carries dark political implications. Until we live in a country where the lives of Americans like Tamir Rice and John Crawford and Eric Garner actually matter as much to the justice system as the life of Darren Goforth, then “all lives matter” will continue to be a couched insult, an obstacle to our aspiration of ensuring justice for all.​

A study in why ‘Black Lives Matter’

I would recommend writer Will Shetterly's Excluded By Intersectionality series as a riposte to this rather simplistic narrative.

http://shetterly.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/All lives matter / Excluded by intersectionality
http://shetterly.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/a-handy-list-of-white-victims-of-police.html

In short, there are plenty of white victims of the police killed in the same circumstances.....but it's only BlackLivesMatter that we should hear. Otherwise YOU'RE RACIST etc

 

[The Cadet]

I would recommend writer Will Shetterly's Excluded By Intersectionality series as a riposte to this rather simplistic narrative.

http://shetterly.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/All lives matter / Excluded by intersectionality
http://shetterly.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/a-handy-list-of-white-victims-of-police.html

In short, there are plenty of white victims of the police killed in the same circumstances.....but it's only BlackLivesMatter that we should here. Otherwise YOU'RE RACIST etc

Do you think the overall rate is perhaps worth taking note of?

 

[Gadarene]

Do you think the overall rate is perhaps worth taking note of?

What, that the bulk of police victims are white?

 

[The Cadet]

What, that the bulk of police victims are white?

Not per capita.

 

[Gadarene]

Not per capita.

As Shetterly points out, the shooting rate seems to correlate better with poverty rather than race, so BLM would be misguided there.

However, the initial point implied that this simply doesn't happen to white people when it does. I take the same approach to BLM that I do to all groups who try and solve a problem via Oppression Olympics and ignoring what happens to other groups because they have it worse - disregard, and marginalise. It is like when men are accused of being "privileged" just because they suffer less from some issue - and their suffering is continually ignored.

 

[Skaloop]

Yes, all lives matter. But not all lives are facing the same issues.

 

[Gadarene]

Yes, all lives matter. But not all lives are facing the same issues.

When it comes to race, they kinda are though, when it comes to police abuse. Less severe in places possibly, but that doesn't mean they're not facing them.

 

[Grizzly]

The "All Lives Matter" reaction reminds me of children who would complain because there was a Father's Day and a Mother's Day but no Childrens Day. Every day is Children's Day...