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Struggles by Non-Christians
Is god willing to prevent evil but not able to?
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<blockquote data-quote="DwarfJuggler" data-source="post: 55493568" data-attributes="member: 267455"><p>So when the village of sodom wanted to sleep with those men, god was respecting man's dominion by torching them alive? </p><p></p><p>So when (can't remember his name off the top of my head.. orne? ornan?) was choosing to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] onto the floor rather than impregnate his brothers wife, and was put to death. This was god respecting man's dominion and not intervening? He violated the man's choice not to impregnate her.</p><p></p><p>This is just within genesis. I've yet to tackle the other passages. Heck he killed that man's brother to. And tried to kill moses. There is lots of death that god did. So why is this idea of free will not being violated around?</p><p></p><p>I can understand if perhaps the new testament he's apparently not as spiteful and controlling as old. But if this were the case why aren't we letting out all the prisoners on the chance that they will learn their lesson and be kind? Because we know that it won't happen, there filled with "demons" and need to be retrained on the ways of society... mind you I think our current prison system is a joke but so be it...</p><p></p><p>and if i remember correctly it mentions that god is unchanging. So why is it we don't have miracles freeing people, not just 1 or 2, but whole groups much like moses and his flock. Although I'm quick to don the theist hat when it comes to a statement like this and imagine the answers. such as a plane able to land safely on the water and save it's passengers is a miracle... I'd say otherwise. They had the skill and training to prepare them for the situation.</p><p></p><p>also hentenza. You're entering the realm of the paradox with the omnipotent idea. If god were to make a rock so heavy he could not lift it that would rule out his ability to be omnipotent. And if he were not able to make said rock so heavy he could not lift it then he would not be able to. Which again rules out omnipotent. So if he is able allegedly but not willing to do, or rather dons the wait and see mindset. He doesn't overly care about intervening and say perform miracles such as... stirring an african revolution creating prosperity in the land and ending famine while considerably increasing their medical abilities to knock out a huge % of aids spreading with in. </p><p>But again for him to do this he would have to violate free will by getting the people to stand up to their government. Or perhaps directing tiny asteroids to pepper their government officials to death. By definition what ever god does is a violation of his free will claim. Which applying rules onto oneself is preventing you from doing something. Much in the same that someone wanting to lose weight may prevent themselves from eating cheese cake. To lose weight in their mind they're not able to eat cheesecake. To allow free will in god's mind he wouldn't be able to intervene. And not being able again rules out omnipotence.</p><p></p><p>(thought of more to say on the topic lol...)</p><p></p><p>And if he were to suddenly change his mind and perform miracles much like that of the biblical stories. Then we'd have God changing. Which apparently God claimed he does not change, which no disrespect would mean god kind of psychotic as he is quick to punish and kill but seems kind and loving elsewhere. It's almost like there's no consistency with the mentality of this omnipotent being. So to say god is a being of love is invalidated when you consider the past events god has done onto man. Like wise to say he's a spiteful vengeful god is invalid as well for the moments he seems to be loving.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DwarfJuggler, post: 55493568, member: 267455"] So when the village of sodom wanted to sleep with those men, god was respecting man's dominion by torching them alive? So when (can't remember his name off the top of my head.. orne? ornan?) was choosing to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] onto the floor rather than impregnate his brothers wife, and was put to death. This was god respecting man's dominion and not intervening? He violated the man's choice not to impregnate her. This is just within genesis. I've yet to tackle the other passages. Heck he killed that man's brother to. And tried to kill moses. There is lots of death that god did. So why is this idea of free will not being violated around? I can understand if perhaps the new testament he's apparently not as spiteful and controlling as old. But if this were the case why aren't we letting out all the prisoners on the chance that they will learn their lesson and be kind? Because we know that it won't happen, there filled with "demons" and need to be retrained on the ways of society... mind you I think our current prison system is a joke but so be it... and if i remember correctly it mentions that god is unchanging. So why is it we don't have miracles freeing people, not just 1 or 2, but whole groups much like moses and his flock. Although I'm quick to don the theist hat when it comes to a statement like this and imagine the answers. such as a plane able to land safely on the water and save it's passengers is a miracle... I'd say otherwise. They had the skill and training to prepare them for the situation. also hentenza. You're entering the realm of the paradox with the omnipotent idea. If god were to make a rock so heavy he could not lift it that would rule out his ability to be omnipotent. And if he were not able to make said rock so heavy he could not lift it then he would not be able to. Which again rules out omnipotent. So if he is able allegedly but not willing to do, or rather dons the wait and see mindset. He doesn't overly care about intervening and say perform miracles such as... stirring an african revolution creating prosperity in the land and ending famine while considerably increasing their medical abilities to knock out a huge % of aids spreading with in. But again for him to do this he would have to violate free will by getting the people to stand up to their government. Or perhaps directing tiny asteroids to pepper their government officials to death. By definition what ever god does is a violation of his free will claim. Which applying rules onto oneself is preventing you from doing something. Much in the same that someone wanting to lose weight may prevent themselves from eating cheese cake. To lose weight in their mind they're not able to eat cheesecake. To allow free will in god's mind he wouldn't be able to intervene. And not being able again rules out omnipotence. (thought of more to say on the topic lol...) And if he were to suddenly change his mind and perform miracles much like that of the biblical stories. Then we'd have God changing. Which apparently God claimed he does not change, which no disrespect would mean god kind of psychotic as he is quick to punish and kill but seems kind and loving elsewhere. It's almost like there's no consistency with the mentality of this omnipotent being. So to say god is a being of love is invalidated when you consider the past events god has done onto man. Like wise to say he's a spiteful vengeful god is invalid as well for the moments he seems to be loving. [/QUOTE]
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Is god willing to prevent evil but not able to?
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