Porn is natural?

[HisdaughterJen]

It seems the men in my husband's family are ok with porn.

(Someone reported this thread as not belonging in this particular forum so I've deleted most of the body of the original post. Sorry, people)- Nov 14

 

[kanga22]

I think porn is cheating. That said, here is an illustration of the justification that goes on in a cheating husband's mind. I think this shows how porn/adultery erodes a marriage. Porn also seems to be addictive and creates obsessive thoughts about sex that do not glorify God.​

Some lame reasons WHY a man cheats on his wife.​

"WHY" can take us down a lot of different paths...'till we've followed them as far as we can... but saying, "I don't know why I had an affair", is a cop-out. Some typical “whys":​

1. Sex with another partner appealed to me, the opportunity came up, and I took advantage of it.


2. The appeal of having sex with another person outweighed the risk I perceived to my marriage.

(The top 2 apply to every adulterer)

3. The appeal of sex with multiple partners grew, when I started spending more time viewing pornography.

4. I started devaluing my relationship with my wife, when I obsessively focused on my expectations that weren't being met in our relationship.

5. As my obsessive thoughts about my expectations not being met in my marriage took over, my anger and justification for having an affair with someone that "valued me", grew.

6. The need for "external approval", that I've come to see I've always had, wasn't being met--in my opinion-- in my marriage. My self esteem has always been "low', and I talked myself into believing my wife no longer cared for me.

7. Selfishness and inability to communicate and obsession with sex.

8. My mind was given over to lust.

 

[free4all]

It seems the men in my husband's family are ok with porn...

Is it grounds for divorce?

Hi Jen,

My post has the possibility of being totally misconstrued, so I'm asking you to please read it carefully and not insert any meanings you think may be there. I am NOT advocating or justifying viewing of porn in any way.

That said, my opinion on whether it is grounds for divorce is this: Jesus said whoever looks at a woman lustfully is guilty of adultery. He also said if we are angry at someone without cause, we are guilty of murder.

If you want to impose the fullest earthly, legal penalty possible on those who lust after others (divorce due to adultery), in order for you to be impartial and consistent with your application, are you also willing to impose the fullest earthly, legal penalty possible on those who are angry at others without cause (imprisonment, or in some areas, the death penalty for murderers)? Are you willing to have such a penalty imposed on yourself, for angry thoughts?

I don't see how we can pick and choose which acts to hold others fully accountable for, including legal actions against them, yet other similar acts (similar in that the offense originates in the mind, perhaps without the second party even being present) are not prosecuted. It is not consistent, and may even be hypocritical, to accept the penalty phase of one sin while totally ignoring the penalty phase of another sin.

Again, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING PORNOGRAPHY. Nothing in my post should be misconstrued to even hint at that. I just ask you to look at the rest of what Jesus said objectively, and see if you think we should be able to prosecute fully others' sins of the mind (I fully recognize that the sins of others may affect us personally). How many of us could survive judgment like this? Do you think divorce and imprisonment are what Jesus had in mind when he spoke about lust and anger?

No, I do not think viewing pornography is justification for divorce. If I did, then I should have also been allowed to have my wife put in jail 10,000 times when she was angry at me without cause. Honestly, I would have liked to have done that many times. My life would have been much easier at times had I been able to do that.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this, and I in no way am justifying what your dh's family does. But I do not think porn is justification for divorce.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hi Jen,

My post has the possibility of being totally misconstrued, so I'm asking you to please read it carefully and not insert any meanings you think may be there. I am NOT advocating or justifying viewing of porn in any way.

That said, my opinion on whether it is grounds for divorce is this: Jesus said whoever looks at a woman lustfully is guilty of adultery. He also said if we are angry at someone without cause, we are guilty of murder.

If you want to impose the fullest earthly, legal penalty possible on those who lust after others (divorce due to adultery), in order for you to be impartial and consistent with your application, are you also willing to impose the fullest earthly, legal penalty possible on those who are angry at others without cause (imprisonment, or in some areas, the death penalty for murderers)? Are you willing to have such a penalty imposed on yourself, for angry thoughts?

I don't see how we can pick and choose which acts to hold others fully accountable for, including legal actions against them, yet other similar acts (similar in that the offense originates in the mind, perhaps without the second party even being present) are not prosecuted. It is not consistent, and may even be hypocritical, to accept the penalty phase of one sin while totally ignoring the penalty phase of another sin.

Again, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING PORNOGRAPHY. Nothing in my post should be misconstrued to even hint at that. I just ask you to look at the rest of what Jesus said objectively, and see if you think we should be able to prosecute fully others' sins of the mind (I fully recognize that the sins of others may affect us personally). How many of us could survive judgment like this? Do you think divorce and imprisonment are what Jesus had in mind when he spoke about lust and anger?

No, I do not think viewing pornography is justification for divorce. If I did, then I should have also been allowed to have my wife put in jail 10,000 times when she was angry at me without cause. Honestly, I would have liked to have done that many times. My life would have been much easier at times had I been able to do that.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this, and I in no way am justifying what your dh's family does. But I do not think porn is justification for divorce.

WOW, excellent point.

Christ's words, then, are more for keeping check on yourself and not for "punitive" grounds.

A man who doesn't take Christ's words about lust to heart can then view pornography as a "safe" way of gratifying a desire for other women while in a marriage covenant because, technically, the marriage covenant is intact. (as appears to be the case with my situation with in-laws)

On the other hand, a man who does take Christ's words about lust to heart will avoid pornography and keep himself in check.

 

[joeman1]

My question is if he doesn't think its wrong why is he hiding it?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

My question is if he doesn't think its wrong why is he hiding it?

Exactly!

Also, what recourse is there for a wife when her husband stashes it in their home and promises that he doesn't have any or even worse, thinks nothing is wrong with it? What should a wife do when she walks in on her husband having a "private moment" for which he makes no apologies?

 

[free4all]

Christ's words, then, are more for keeping check on yourself and not for "punitive" grounds.

Great summary! I was thinking along those lines but wasn't able to phrase it so succinctly.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Great summary! I was thinking along those lines but wasn't able to phrase it so succinctly.

 

[free4all]

Also, what recourse is there for a wife when her husband stashes it in their home and promises that he doesn't have any

Assuming what the wife found wasn't left over from before and he forgot about it (here I go again, sounding like I'm defending the dh ) I would make an issue of the lie, if it could conclusively be called a lie. I would highlight the fact that trust and honesty are the building blocks of a relationship. I would ask if he would mind being lied to on a regular basis. One-way truthfulness in a marriage is a recipe for disappointment and disaster.

or even worse, thinks nothing is wrong with it? What should a wife do when she walks in on her husband having a "private moment" for which he makes no apologies?

Perhaps state that since he's doing something like that, which supposedly isn't harming a relationship (in his views), then she is going to pursue some internet or emotional affairs? Surely he won't mind, since "they are not real people." Okay, maybe bad advice, but the analogy may have some merit.

I'm not asking for an answer, but I wonder why he doesn't come to you when he is interested in sex. I'm sure you've told him how it hurts you to see him turn to porn.

I'm sorry I don't have any easy answers. It seems this is a way of life for him since his family thinks it's normal. Is he not a Christian?

 

[joeman1]

Assuming what the wife found wasn't left over from before and he forgot about it (here I go again, sounding like I'm defending the dh ) I would make an issue of the lie, if it could conclusively be called a lie. I would highlight the fact that trust and honesty are the building blocks of a relationship. I would ask if he would mind being lied to on a regular basis. One-way truthfulness in a marriage is a recipe for disappointment and disaster.

Perhaps state that since he's doing something like that, which supposedly isn't harming a relationship (in his views), then she is going to pursue some internet or emotional affairs? Surely he won't mind, since "they are not real people." Okay, maybe bad advice, but the analogy may have some merit.

I'm not asking for an answer, but I wonder why he doesn't come to you when he is interested in sex. I'm sure you've told him how it hurts you to see him turn to porn.

I'm sorry I don't have any easy answers. It seems this is a way of life for him since his family thinks it's normal. Is he not a Christian?

Brother I couldn't think of what to say to this dear sister you took the words out of my mouth.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Assuming what the wife found wasn't left over from before and he forgot about it (here I go again, sounding like I'm defending the dh ) I would make an issue of the lie, if it could conclusively be called a lie. I would highlight the fact that trust and honesty are the building blocks of a relationship. I would ask if he would mind being lied to on a regular basis. One-way truthfulness in a marriage is a recipe for disappointment and disaster.

I have an eerie "sixth sense", if you will, or a hyper-active intuition (or maybe it's the Holy Spirit) and can tell when something is up or if he's lying. He's lied about having it in the house three times that I can remember in our marriage. I told him if I find it again, that's it, it's over. I told him I wouldn't tell him that I found it, that I'd package it up and send it to his Christian parents with a note saying, "this is why your son is getting a divorce". That seems to have done the trick in that regard. Sadly, I suspect he may have moved on to the real but have no proof.

Also, there's been some kind of spiritual opening (foothold) because we are under attack in our finances. I've noticed this happens when a sexual sin is being committed. It's almost like the household is in jeopardy when the head of the household isn't behaving properly.

Perhaps state that since he's doing something like that, which supposedly isn't harming a relationship (in his views), then she is going to pursue some internet or emotional affairs? Surely he won't mind, since "they are not real people." Okay, maybe bad advice, but the analogy may have some merit.

Yes, that would be a good argument.

I'm not asking for an answer, but I wonder why he doesn't come to you when he is interested in sex. I'm sure you've told him how it hurts you to see him turn to porn.

I wondered that too because I thought everything was good. When I caught him the first time, I asked. His reply was, "I need naked women". I can only imagine that it is an addiction.

I'm sorry I don't have any easy answers. It seems this is a way of life for him since his family thinks it's normal. Is he not a Christian?

That's the frustrating part. He was raised in a Christian household but not taught that porn and such was bad. Now, I don't know where he stands with the Lord because he doesn't pray (only at meal times and only if I say 'let's pray'), go to church, or read the Bible.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I think porn is cheating. That said, here is an illustration of the justification that goes on in a cheating husband's mind. I think this shows how porn/adultery erodes a marriage. Porn also seems to be addictive and creates obsessive thoughts about sex that do not glorify God.​

Some lame reasons WHY a man cheats on his wife.​

"WHY" can take us down a lot of different paths...'till we've followed them as far as we can... but saying, "I don't know why I had an affair", is a cop-out. Some typical “whys":​

1. Sex with another partner appealed to me, the opportunity came up, and I took advantage of it.


2. The appeal of having sex with another person outweighed the risk I perceived to my marriage.

(The top 2 apply to every adulterer)

3. The appeal of sex with multiple partners grew, when I started spending more time viewing pornography.

4. I started devaluing my relationship with my wife, when I obsessively focused on my expectations that weren't being met in our relationship.

5. As my obsessive thoughts about my expectations not being met in my marriage took over, my anger and justification for having an affair with someone that "valued me", grew.

6. The need for "external approval", that I've come to see I've always had, wasn't being met--in my opinion-- in my marriage. My self esteem has always been "low', and I talked myself into believing my wife no longer cared for me.

7. Selfishness and inability to communicate and obsession with sex.

8. My mind was given over to lust.

I agree with you that it is cheating. But is it Biblical adultery?

I'd love to print out that list and post it on the door for my husband to read...

 

[shepsgirl]

I agree with you that it is cheating. But is it Biblical adultery?

I'd love to print out that list and post it on the door for my husband to read...

I believe it it is biblical adultery. The Bible says that when one man and one woman are married, anything sexual should go on only between them. Any third party (porn, other people) would be considered cheating by God.

 

[joeman1]

Even Jesus said to look upon a woman to lust after her is adultry. To me thats what porn is all about.

 

[dayknee]

It certainly isn't that I do not agree with all the posters here. I know what the bible says about the looking lustfully etc. I Know God says it is comitting adultery. i also know that other things that we may personally do, that we don't want to be held accountable to or persecuted for. With that said. Porn is a very big deal and a very big issue. I am all for restoring a marriage that are dealing with these issues. However, more than just the actual looking at it and lying about it is what the problem is. It seaps into every part of that marriage.
My husband has been into porn for the last 10 years. And yes, every time I caught him with it or found it, I always got the song and dance of im sorry and i will never do it again..Only to find it again some months later. What happened to my marriage is that all sexual relations stopped. No, not becuase of me, but becuase of him. See I wasnt one of those women in the magazines. i am a beautiful blond hair curvey women who has had two children with this man. But becuase I sagged in a few places here and there I wasnt what he wanted to be with. Not only is the problem lying and lusting but it also can take a husband away from the intimate parts of marriage. That, to me, is leaving the marriage. We have been seperated for 8 months now with no sign of change on his part. I wont even say that I am at peace with my choices. I have consequences whether I stay married or divorce. I refuse to be in a marriage (17 years now) that is sexless. This is a very big thing for me. Now int he case that sex couldnt happen due to illness or an accident, that would be entirely different. But when my husband willfully withholds from me becuase of his porn addiciton then there is where I have the problem. I have not been intimate with him for almost 2 years. This is what porn addiciton and viewing come to. I would put my foot down OP and make it clear that it is NOT acceptable. and then make your boundries known and stick by them if they are broken. This doest have to mean divorce, but it should be something that might shake his fantasy a bit. My husband wouldnt and refused to go to counseling. I go and I think it has helped me a great deal. I am ready for a divorce becuase I know I have exhausted all my options. I continue to pray about things but I have wasted two years of my precious life worrying and being hurt and upset. I wont waste another two. If he does NOT want to be with me. I will let him go.
God Bless you in making the right choices.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

It certainly isn't that I do not agree with all the posters here. I know what the bible says about the looking lustfully etc. I Know God says it is comitting adultery. i also know that other things that we may personally do, that we don't want to be held accountable to or persecuted for. With that said. Porn is a very big deal and a very big issue. I am all for restoring a marriage that are dealing with these issues. However, more than just the actual looking at it and lying about it is what the problem is. It seaps into every part of that marriage.
My husband has been into porn for the last 10 years. And yes, every time I caught him with it or found it, I always got the song and dance of im sorry and i will never do it again..Only to find it again some months later. What happened to my marriage is that all sexual relations stopped. No, not becuase of me, but becuase of him. See I wasnt one of those women in the magazines. i am a beautiful blond hair curvey women who has had two children with this man. But becuase I sagged in a few places here and there I wasnt what he wanted to be with. Not only is the problem lying and lusting but it also can take a husband away from the intimate parts of marriage. That, to me, is leaving the marriage. We have been seperated for 8 months now with no sign of change on his part. I wont even say that I am at peace with my choices. I have consequences whether I stay married or divorce. I refuse to be in a marriage (17 years now) that is sexless. This is a very big thing for me. Now int he case that sex couldnt happen due to illness or an accident, that would be entirely different. But when my husband willfully withholds from me becuase of his porn addiciton then there is where I have the problem. I have not been intimate with him for almost 2 years. This is what porn addiciton and viewing come to. I would put my foot down OP and make it clear that it is NOT acceptable. and then make your boundries known and stick by them if they are broken. This doest have to mean divorce, but it should be something that might shake his fantasy a bit. My husband wouldnt and refused to go to counseling. I go and I think it has helped me a great deal. I am ready for a divorce becuase I know I have exhausted all my options. I continue to pray about things but I have wasted two years of my precious life worrying and being hurt and upset. I wont waste another two. If he does NOT want to be with me. I will let him go.
God Bless you in making the right choices.

Wow, striking similarities.

 

[Brotherfromanothermother]

I agree porn is wrong. It is sinful. I don't believe (depending on circumstances) that it is a proven permission to divorce.
I believe if a man is following Christ and is loving his wife (assuming she is willing and able to meet his needs intimately) that he'd be a fool to allow porn to come into his marriage. (I have seen some "christian" couples that allow all sorts of IMO un-Christ like practices into their marriage bed in the name of "if nobody gets hurt or whatever, we have freedom through grace" including porn)
The husband has a responsibility to his wife due to the fact his body is no longer his alone just as his wifes body is no longer hers alone.
Sometimes though it seems as if a woman is looking for a loophole in her marriage (not saying you are) and porn fits her agenda.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Sometimes though it seems as if a woman is looking for a loophole in her marriage (not saying you are) and porn fits her agenda.

Funny that you should say that, though...in a way, I believe it may be what I have been doing. It's funny the curves/temptations life throws at you.

I love my husband. I believe our marriage was arranged and blessed by God...all those years ago...regardless of what has happened throughout.

We've (hubby and I) had a good talk and God has faithfully given me peace of mind so that I feel like I can continue and move forward.

It's funny too how God sends people into your path to say the right things that they don't think will make a difference, but they do. Praise God for all my brothers and sisters in Christ!!!

 

[Johnnz]

He and God aren't on the same wavelength, even though he came from a Christian home. Sometimes that is a person's choice. Sometimes it's that he has never been presented with Jesus in a way that really resonates with him. Two different issues with different possibilties.

He may never been made to think through sex and his sexuality. A lot of Christian teaching tends to focus on the "don'ts until marriage" without much detail on what human sexuality is all about. I reckon this lies behind much porn addiction.

The issues are not simple, but it seems that right now he is not too interested in changing. If that is the case you must really consider the rest of your life and those of any children.

John
NZ

 

[Droppo]

Is looking at pornography natural? I think so. Human sexuality is extremely complex and some fantasies just can't be acted out in real life for whatever reason, whether it's because the person is in a committed relationship with another person, is embarrassed of his/her own sexuality, or it's just plain physically impossible (giantess fetishes and anthropomorphic fetishes come to mind).

Naturally, people with a fetish or preferences will want some sort of outlet; it's not healthy to suppress one's sexuality. Whether it's in the form of written erotica, photographs, drawings or videos, finding a connection to another person who has the same interests as the consumer is self-affirming and comforting.

But are you a prude for not liking it? Not at all. Many people would be offended or feel threatened if their spouse had pornography, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You are 100% justified in that position, but I do hope that you made your stance on pornography clear before you were married.

Is is grounds for divorce? If it detracts from your happiness with the relationship and therefore your quality of life in a significant fashion, then it most definitely is. But only you can make that call.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. I hope the two of you can work this out.