Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Leaderboards
Games
Our Blog
Blogs
New entries
New comments
Blog list
Search blogs
Credits
Transactions
Shop
Blessings: ✟0.00
Tickets
Open new ticket
Watched
Donate
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
More options
Toggle width
Share this page
Share this page
Share
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Menu
Install the app
Install
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Exploring Christianity
Did Jesus Exist?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="GakuseiDon" data-source="post: 57265140" data-attributes="member: 278217"><p>Excellent. So we have Mark who might well have been writing about the leader of the Q community, saying many of the things in the Gospels, and performing healing miracles in the Gospels, etc. And also incorporating the Jerusalem apostles that Paul apparently knew in his Gospel (though you believe those apostles weren't disciples of an earthly Jesus, of course).</p><p> </p><p></p><p>That isn't the best explanation. Here is what I regard is the best explanation:</p><p></p><p>Jesus was the leader of the Q community, as you've suggested might be the case. He was a Galilean, said many of the things in the Gospel, did some of the things in the Gospels, and gained a following as a prophet and holy man within his lifetime. These followers continued on after Jesus died as the Ebionites and Nazarenes. They didn't think Jesus was virgin-born. </p><p></p><p>Jesus went to Jerusalem, where he was crucified after running afoul of the religious establishment of his day. The body went missing, and people had visions of a risen Jesus, which confirmed to them that Jesus was the Son of God. This became the Jerusalem group.</p><p></p><p>Paul then came along and had a revelation that Jesus' death had significance to the Gentiles, and became the apostle to the Gentiles.</p><p></p><p>As far as I can see, the data we have fits perfectly with that scenario. You counter that Paul doesn't write like we would expect him to write, but without even trying to address whether that is a warranted assumption or not. I've note examples where other writers don't write like we would expect them to write, so have concluded that your assumption is not warranted.</p><p></p><p>And with your explanation you have to posit the existence of a Christianity not know in the historical record, interpret phrases like "in the flesh" that have no precedent either before or after Paul, and invoke a metaphysical framework of "fleshly sublunar realms" that goes against what we know of the times.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GakuseiDon, post: 57265140, member: 278217"] Excellent. So we have Mark who might well have been writing about the leader of the Q community, saying many of the things in the Gospels, and performing healing miracles in the Gospels, etc. And also incorporating the Jerusalem apostles that Paul apparently knew in his Gospel (though you believe those apostles weren't disciples of an earthly Jesus, of course). That isn't the best explanation. Here is what I regard is the best explanation: Jesus was the leader of the Q community, as you've suggested might be the case. He was a Galilean, said many of the things in the Gospel, did some of the things in the Gospels, and gained a following as a prophet and holy man within his lifetime. These followers continued on after Jesus died as the Ebionites and Nazarenes. They didn't think Jesus was virgin-born. Jesus went to Jerusalem, where he was crucified after running afoul of the religious establishment of his day. The body went missing, and people had visions of a risen Jesus, which confirmed to them that Jesus was the Son of God. This became the Jerusalem group. Paul then came along and had a revelation that Jesus' death had significance to the Gentiles, and became the apostle to the Gentiles. As far as I can see, the data we have fits perfectly with that scenario. You counter that Paul doesn't write like we would expect him to write, but without even trying to address whether that is a warranted assumption or not. I've note examples where other writers don't write like we would expect them to write, so have concluded that your assumption is not warranted. And with your explanation you have to posit the existence of a Christianity not know in the historical record, interpret phrases like "in the flesh" that have no precedent either before or after Paul, and invoke a metaphysical framework of "fleshly sublunar realms" that goes against what we know of the times. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Exploring Christianity
Did Jesus Exist?
Top
Bottom