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Did Jesus Exist?
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<blockquote data-quote="doubtingmerle" data-source="post: 57262100" data-attributes="member: 6687"><p>Nothing casts doubt on the reliability of the gospels? What about all the contradictions? What about the fact that they weren't written until 40 years later? What about the fact that they make fantastic claims that were not verified by others? What about the fact that the other writers simply copy Mark when something is in Mark, and thus are not providing independent confirmation? What about the fact that we don't even know who the writers were, and if they are reliable?</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Well, yes, but the name "Jesus" was used by Mark, and that Matthew and Luke basically copy Mark with a few changes if they repeat a story found in Mark. So yes, of course they keep the name Jesus. </p><p> </p><p>We don't know if the Q document made any mention of a name. Since Luke and Matthew throw the Q teaching in at different contexts, its likely that Q gave little if any narrative context of its own and mentioned no name of a leader.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>John the Baptist is a historical figure that represented a potential rival sect, so his involvement may have been added to show he approved of the group. The angry indictment of the Jews may mean that the founder struggled with the Jews, or it could mean that the people turned against the Jews when they rejected the Q community's Cynic-style peaceful teachings. The indictment of certain cities only means they were felt as a threat, not that the Q founder had been there. The disciples in Q are little more than a rhetorical device to setup the sayings. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>We cannot know for sure what was in Q. That's why it would be a fantastic find if we someday found Q.</p><p> </p><p>The passages we can discern that probably came from Q make none of the exalted claims about Jesus that are found in books like John.</p><p></p><p>Uh, Q is not based on similarities. It is based on finding nearly identical sayings that obviously come from a common source. Can you give me an example of something that might come from Q and tells us about the Passion week? (And no, I am not looking for endless quotes, arguments, links, apologetics, and references. Just a verse or 2 that you think could have come from Q that supports your view.)</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Uh no, we have at least 3 possibilities. The 2 you mention above, and the scenario I proposed in post #243.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doubtingmerle, post: 57262100, member: 6687"] Nothing casts doubt on the reliability of the gospels? What about all the contradictions? What about the fact that they weren't written until 40 years later? What about the fact that they make fantastic claims that were not verified by others? What about the fact that the other writers simply copy Mark when something is in Mark, and thus are not providing independent confirmation? What about the fact that we don't even know who the writers were, and if they are reliable? Well, yes, but the name "Jesus" was used by Mark, and that Matthew and Luke basically copy Mark with a few changes if they repeat a story found in Mark. So yes, of course they keep the name Jesus. We don't know if the Q document made any mention of a name. Since Luke and Matthew throw the Q teaching in at different contexts, its likely that Q gave little if any narrative context of its own and mentioned no name of a leader. John the Baptist is a historical figure that represented a potential rival sect, so his involvement may have been added to show he approved of the group. The angry indictment of the Jews may mean that the founder struggled with the Jews, or it could mean that the people turned against the Jews when they rejected the Q community's Cynic-style peaceful teachings. The indictment of certain cities only means they were felt as a threat, not that the Q founder had been there. The disciples in Q are little more than a rhetorical device to setup the sayings. We cannot know for sure what was in Q. That's why it would be a fantastic find if we someday found Q. The passages we can discern that probably came from Q make none of the exalted claims about Jesus that are found in books like John. Uh, Q is not based on similarities. It is based on finding nearly identical sayings that obviously come from a common source. Can you give me an example of something that might come from Q and tells us about the Passion week? (And no, I am not looking for endless quotes, arguments, links, apologetics, and references. Just a verse or 2 that you think could have come from Q that supports your view.) Uh no, we have at least 3 possibilities. The 2 you mention above, and the scenario I proposed in post #243. [/QUOTE]
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