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Thank you StTherese and God Bless. That video sums up the reasons I came into the Catholic Church. It's great to be home.

Is there any writings from the ECF's speaking out against those who believed the the bread and wine was the body and blood of Christ?

The only point I am making is that James White argument is invalid just like the JW's argument that just because we do not find a define word to describe a doctrine at some later time in history does not disprove the concept of the doctrine.

That was the premise of his argument or one of them, he threw out more then I could keep up with, and since he was linked to this thread my point was that it was a weak argument at best. Just because we do not find the word transubstantiation until the 11th century proves nothing.

Couldn't the same be said about the Trinity, that it was not developed until the 4th century so it is not from the apostles. I have heard the JW's use that same argument.

So the silence means that everyone understood the oral teaching correctly so that's why we want find anyone speaking out against this until the reformation? I just thought there would be something out there before that time especially with the ECF's. Since I've heard that the Roman accused the...

The real presence as in the bread and wine becoming the actual Body and Blood of Christ.

Simon, do you have anything on the ECF's that explicitly spoke out against those who believed in the real presence as heretics?

Praying for you and my you find peace

My 13 year old son took a bad fall yesterday and I fear that he might have a fractured hip, he will be having a CT scan tomorrow. Please pray for his pain and the best possible outcome. Thanks Hap

Jesus please touch Kiran and my your love sign brightly in his heart:crossrc:

My son took a bad fall yesterday and I fear that he might have fractured his hip. Please pray for him Thanks, Hap

As long as we have an odd number of Patriarchs we would have unity with the doctrines?

So if the Pope became a Patriarch that would make a total of 6 Patriarchs and the possibility of a split discission at any given council...:scratch: </IMG>

So do the Patriarch's get together to agree on doctrines? What happens if a Patriarch disagrees with the other 4? As you can tell I do not know much about the EOC.

So lets say the Catholic Church gives up Papal primacy, then what. We are all called an Orthodox Church with/hyphen, all led by a different Patriarch, all having the same sacraments but teaching slightly different doctrines, sounds like Protestantism. If the EO and CC united wouldn't there need...

I chose #1, It was when I started looking at the early church that caused me to investigate the Catholic Church and it's teaching.

I do not understand why you think this was condesending, I myself meditate on scripture or whatever I might be thinking about in order to look for an answer. My conclusions may be seen as incorrect or flawed by others, but it helps me sort throught my thoughts. I thought you would have...

In your opinion how does Christianity portray God.

So you disargee with the premise that if more people seeked God and lived a Christian life that it would not reduce evil in this world. Could you please explain further.