Why is there suffering if God is real?

Donkky12 said:

Hello all,

I can't help but to question the existence of God particularly because of suffering in the world. e.g. I read the news regarding 5yo being raped and killed to say the least amongst all the other pain experienced by myself or others in the world.

I have read about the Adam and Eve answers but I don't quite understand - why would God create that tree just to test Adam and Eve but punishing us when we're totally unrelated? I have also heard answers about free will, why create hatred just so we can feel loved? Why not just fill us with a copious amount of love with free will of who we interact with so that we feel loved by each other everyday (just our choice on who we want to interact with but regardless, still loving one another) whether on Earth or in Heaven. What's the point of all these "tests" and "temporary time" on Earth?

Feels like God is treating us like an experiment in someway.

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Man chose suffering over eternal peace. But out of God's grace God is going to allow this suffering (for believers in Jesus) to only last a short time. As God will end all suffering and death soon.

Donkky12 said:

Sorry but I did not choose to suffer, even just for a "short" time. How is allowing suffering God's grace?

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Oh but Adam did when he choose to partake of satans deception and Adam choose for all of us

Donkky12 said:

Doesn't make sense, does it? God said he gave us free will because he love us and yet, Adam chose for ALL of us, we ALL didn't have or had a choice. How is that fair?

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Makes perfect sense to me, especially where God states he will correct what man has messed up. And even though God needs nothing, God decided to offer man a second chance at Eternal Life, living in a perfect creation eternally with God.

As without God there is no Life. So God offers His Life as a free gift to all who will believe in Jesus, for the free gift of Eternal Life (The Life of God). It can not get any better or simpler than that.

Donkky12 said:

Hello all,

I can't help but to question the existence of God particularly because of suffering in the world. e.g. I read the news regarding 5yo being raped and killed to say the least amongst all the other pain experienced by myself or others in the world.

I have read about the Adam and Eve answers but I don't quite understand - why would God create that tree just to test Adam and Eve but punishing us when we're totally unrelated? I have also heard answers about free will, why create hatred just so we can feel loved? Why not just fill us with a copious amount of love with free will of who we interact with so that we feel loved by each other everyday (just our choice on who we want to interact with but regardless, still loving one another) whether on Earth or in Heaven. What's the point of all these "tests" and "temporary time" on Earth?

Feels like God is treating us like an experiment in someway.

Click to expand...

We will always have this mystery but an important thing to consider is that we have been on a developmental journey. The figurative narrative of Adam and Eve begin to try to articulate it. But we find our selves between two realities: our fate, the mud from which we came, and our destiny, the future we choose to grow into. Even for Jesus we find that suffering and death are part of that journey, the Paschal Mystery is inescapable.

Donkky12 said:

Did God not create Adam and Eve? If so, why did he let them choose the apple?

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Ro 9:23 suggests an answer.

Donkky12 said:

Why can't it be right the first time, why do we need a second chance when God could've created us with eternal life with no suffering right off the bat.

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I suggest that perhaps because of the nature of physical human beings, divine wisdom chose experiential contrast (suffering) as the best way to work in physical man a realization and appreciation of the goodness and grace of God through his Son.

This I know. . .all is the choice and design of a divine infinite wisdom as the best way to procure his desired end, the glory of his Son, which glory did not come without cost to him.

Donkky12 said:

Hello all,

I can't help but to question the existence of God particularly because of suffering in the world. e.g. I read the news regarding 5yo being raped and killed to say the least amongst all the other pain experienced by myself or others in the world.

I have read about the Adam and Eve answers but I don't quite understand - why would God create that tree just to test Adam and Eve but punishing us when we're totally unrelated? I have also heard answers about free will, why create hatred just so we can feel loved? Why not just fill us with a copious amount of love with free will of who we interact with so that we feel loved by each other everyday (just our choice on who we want to interact with but regardless, still loving one another) whether on Earth or in Heaven. What's the point of all these "tests" and "temporary time" on Earth?

Feels like God is treating us like an experiment in someway.

Click to expand...

Not sure why suffering would have a direct correlation to the existence of God. Is He somehow obligated to keep a perfect world in tac or do you suppose that is our obligation. Think about it.
Be blessed.

Donkky12 said:

Did God not create Adam and Eve? If so, why did he let them choose the apple? Why can't it be right the first time, why do we need a second chance when God could've created us with eternal life with no suffering right off the bat.

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God did create Adam with The Life of God and no suffering. It just that was not enough for Adam, so Adam chose to the contrary and went with death and suffering.

Donkky12 said:

Hello all,

I can't help but to question the existence of God particularly because of suffering in the world. e.g. I read the news regarding 5yo being raped and killed to say the least amongst all the other pain experienced by myself or others in the world.

I have read about the Adam and Eve answers but I don't quite understand - why would God create that tree just to test Adam and Eve but punishing us when we're totally unrelated? I have also heard answers about free will, why create hatred just so we can feel loved? Why not just fill us with a copious amount of love with free will of who we interact with so that we feel loved by each other everyday (just our choice on who we want to interact with but regardless, still loving one another) whether on Earth or in Heaven. What's the point of all these "tests" and "temporary time" on Earth?

Feels like God is treating us like an experiment in someway.

Click to expand...

The lord is testing our faithfulness and obedience to his words, this is what he wants, for us to be HOLY as he is HOLY. we all have a choice to make to choose good and live or choose evil and suffer eternal death. Just imagine this earth if everyone were doing GOD's will, it would be paradise.

now why? here is my take on it but I could be wrong;

God created before us, angels, many types of angels. Lucifer was a very powerful angel that rebelled against GOD, the problem is that from creation he had eternal life.....the lord wants to test us before we are transformed into eternal beings in the likeness of GOD.... GOD wants us to choose the narrow path that if the way to eternal life, Jesus has many parables on this like the parable of the wheat and the tares..

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Peace

Donkky12 said:

Hello all,

I can't help but to question the existence of God particularly because of suffering in the world. e.g. I read the news regarding 5yo being raped and killed to say the least amongst all the other pain experienced by myself or others in the world.

I have read about the Adam and Eve answers but I don't quite understand - why would God create that tree just to test Adam and Eve but punishing us when we're totally unrelated? I have also heard answers about free will, why create hatred just so we can feel loved? Why not just fill us with a copious amount of love with free will of who we interact with so that we feel loved by each other everyday (just our choice on who we want to interact with but regardless, still loving one another) whether on Earth or in Heaven. What's the point of all these "tests" and "temporary time" on Earth?

Feels like God is treating us like an experiment in someway.

Click to expand...

Hello Donkky12.

Great questions. I asked those same questions way back when I first became a believer. In fact, I still ask a couple of those questions today, but now it's in defence of the gospel. I'll try and explain what I've come to understand over the years and hopefully it will be of help to you. I'll also try and keep this short as I do have a tendency to write long answers.

God has created us for a relationship. For us to have a relationship with God, in the truest sense of the word, we must also be free to deny this relationship. This means we are going to need freewill. Freewill, simply put, is the ability to choose between good and evil, right and wrong, and then to act according to our choice. But, more accurately, freewill is our God given freedom to deny him. Now in order to give man freewill, God will have to allow us the knowledge of good and evil. Before the fall man did not have this knowledge. We see this confirmed by both the serpent, Gen 3:5 and God, Gen 3:22. The only knowledge man had up until the fall was what God revealed to him in the previous chapter. Without the knowledge of Evil, one cannot distinguish what is good and vise versa. How is man to recognize that God is all good and loving without knowing what God is not? You don't choose to be in a relationship with someone you don't even know.

By placing the tree of knowledge in the garden and commanding Adam not to eat from it, God created the potential for free will. However, I truly believe if it wasn't for the serpent, neither Adam or Eve would have ever eaten from that tree. The serpent had it's roll to play. I believe this because God does nothing without intent and purpose. When man ate from the tree, his eyes were opened knowing both good and evil. Man now has choice and therefore freewill. But. there's a problem. God by his very nature is a just God.

He creates man for a relationship which is going to require that he allows man freewill. Freewill means allowing the knowledge of both good and evil, but because God is just, he must punish that evil. And the punishment for evil is spiritual death. Spiritual death means no possibility of a relationship with God. Why? Because God is spirit. It is only through our spirit, which is a part of the image we were created in, that we are able to have a relationship with God.

So, what's the solution? You guessed it. Jesus! It was predestined before the beginning of time that we would be children of God, but through Jesus. Jesus payed the penalty for the sin that God had to allow so that we can choose, or choose not, a relationship with God. Jesus paying this penalty has made us essentially sinless in the sight of God. We have been set free from punishment. Meaning, should we choose a relationship with God, we will receive new spiritual life. This spiritual life will be eternal since the only thing that could destroy it was taken care of at the cross.

There is no denying the suffering created by sin seen throughout the world and across time. But, the darker the world gets as a result of sin, the brighter God shines as a result of his love. How we experience God's love will be different for all of us, but once you experience it, there is no denying it only sharing it.

Donkky12 said:

Hello all,

I can't help but to question the existence of God particularly because of suffering in the world. e.g. I read the news regarding 5yo being raped and killed to say the least amongst all the other pain experienced by myself or others in the world.

I have read about the Adam and Eve answers but I don't quite understand - why would God create that tree just to test Adam and Eve but punishing us when we're totally unrelated? I have also heard answers about free will, why create hatred just so we can feel loved? Why not just fill us with a copious amount of love with free will of who we interact with so that we feel loved by each other everyday (just our choice on who we want to interact with but regardless, still loving one another) whether on Earth or in Heaven. What's the point of all these "tests" and "temporary time" on Earth?

Feels like God is treating us like an experiment in someway.

Click to expand...

It's because your pre-assumption is wrong. Earth should have been a hell, if it's not because God's sheep are still here.

Isaiah 14:17
the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?

Ever since Adam was kicked out of Eden, humans are living in a realm outside of God's dwelling realm, while any place outside of God's dwelling place will decay into a hell. In such a hell, the most evil and the most powerful will eventually rule due to the lack of God's direct influence. This happens to be Satan - the man who turned this world into a wilderness. That's why Satan is referred to as "the god of this world". Earth is no paradise as you might have presumed. That's actually we have to pray that "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven". We pray that God's direct influence coming back on earth.

Earth is not yet a hell under the influence of Satan, who turned everyone without exception into his captives, simply because God won't give up His sheep. God still has a salvation job here. Christians however are told that we don't belong here. We need to endure in order to be saved, just like the sheep in the wilderness full of beasts.

For that matter, earth should have been destoryed completely by a flood in Noah's days as it is supposed to be a hell.

Donkky12 said:

Did God not create Adam and Eve? If so, why did he let them choose the apple? Why can't it be right the first time, why do we need a second chance when God could've created us with eternal life with no suffering right off the bat.

Click to expand...

It's because the nature of free will is that one has the ability to choose to oppose God by sinning against Him. God is a completely sin-incompatible God who has an ultimate goal of building an eternity where entities with free will, which are angels and humans, can live with Him HAPPILY forever!

God won't be happy if by free will angels or humans choose to oppose Him by sinning to a certain extent. That's why God set up Law as an open standard, followed by the Final Judgment to identify who shall be able to live in Heaven the eternity. It's like a promise from the sin-incompatible God that if one passed the Final Judgment God would bear with him in eternity, no matter what. If one, by free will, chooses to sin beyond the standard as defined by Law, he won't be able to live in harmony with others as well as the sin-incompatible God in eternity. The story of Eden actually demonstrated that such a harmony cannot be reached without the exercising of Law and Judgment. It's like Adam and Eve were brought directly to Heaven but they sinned under the influence of the much more intelligent angelic beings (the crafty snake).

Only when those choosing to oppose God to the extent beyong the defined standard are removed that the harmony of Heaven can be reached, and a Heaven (New Heaven and New Earth) can be built.

I can't help either but think God is using and testing us as an experiment in some way and he doesn't necessarily want us to be happy here to speak.

And not only is there suffering and evil on an extreme scale (and scope) but we see no apparent justice for it and the only justice they will get is Hell, and some people who go there arguably don't deserve to go there anyway.

d taylor said:

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Man chose suffering over eternal peace. But out of God's grace God is going to allow this suffering (for believers in Jesus) to only last a short time. As God will end all suffering and death soon.

Click to expand...

Why did God even have or want to wait 6000 years for humans to screw up only to destroy it and create everything brand new in the end? It sounds like a silly gambit to me. Why couldn't he have just start everything over after Adam and Eve have sinned instead of continuing to allow new people to be born into this world inheriting sin? I would've preferred that a lot more. "You are suffering now, but God promises greatness later" whenever or whatever the essensw of that is, still doesn't quite cut it.

VCR-2000 said:

Why did God even have or want to wait 6000 years for humans to screw up only to destroy it and create everything brand new in the end? It sounds like a silly gambit to me. Why couldn't he have just start everything over after Adam and Eve have sinned instead of continuing to allow new people to be born into this world inheriting sin? I would've preferred that a lot more. "You are suffering now, but God promises greatness later" whenever or whatever the essensw of that is, still doesn't quite cut it.

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What ever is going on now the greater reason involves the angelic realm and has to do with the fall of satan.

Donkky12 said:

Hello all,

I can't help but to question the existence of God particularly because of suffering in the world. e.g. I read the news regarding 5yo being raped and killed to say the least amongst all the other pain experienced by myself or others in the world.

I have read about the Adam and Eve answers but I don't quite understand - why would God create that tree just to test Adam and Eve but punishing us when we're totally unrelated? I have also heard answers about free will, why create hatred just so we can feel loved? Why not just fill us with a copious amount of love with free will of who we interact with so that we feel loved by each other everyday (just our choice on who we want to interact with but regardless, still loving one another) whether on Earth or in Heaven. What's the point of all these "tests" and "temporary time" on Earth?

Feels like God is treating us like an experiment in someway.

Click to expand...

Sounds like someone needs to spend some quality time in the reading of the whole Bible.

VCR-2000 said:

Why did God even have or want to wait 6000 years for humans to screw up only to destroy it and create everything brand new in the end? It sounds like a silly gambit to me. Why couldn't he have just start everything over after Adam and Eve have sinned instead of continuing to allow new people to be born into this world inheriting sin? I would've preferred that a lot more. "You are suffering now, but God promises greatness later" whenever or whatever the essensw of that is, still doesn't quite cut it.

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It's already explained. See my post above.

#15

This is actually mathematical.
Freewill at the end means one is given the ability to oppose God.
By assuming a normal distribution (i.e., mathematical statistics and probabilities) of human or angel behavior by free will, it's estimated that 1/3 angels will choose to sin against God when measured by Law. Since humans are given a larger degree of freewill. It is estimated that more than 2/3 humans will choose to sin against God when measured by the same Law. Humans are thus said to be saved through the narrow gate.

However another factor jammed in besides the freewill factor. The 1/3 bad angels (crafty snake in Eden) are much more intelligent than humans and can pose a negative effect upon humans. As a result of the angelic influence, it is said that Satan kept all humans under captive. That is by freewill alone there shall be 1/3 or less humans are deemed savable, but with the angelic influence in place no human can be saved. After extended observation and witness, Law would enforce the destruction of humankind as a whole (that is what the Noah story told).

With Jesus Christ in place then, humans can dodge the Judgment of Law. That is, human behavior are no longer measured by the standard as defined by Law. Instead they are assessed by means of a series of covenants covering the different scope of humans at the various points of humanity.

While Law actually assesses the obedience of an entity with freewill, covenants would assess Faith which is equally crucial to humans for them to live with the eternal God (as told by the Eden story where Adam fell because of the lacking of faith in God and lacking obedience at the same time). A covenant thus would assess both Faith and obedience, and with the New Covenant only assesses a human's Faith and faith only, as both the saved and unsaved are equally inobedient that any form of Law won't be able to tell them apart. Only faith would indicate who can live the sin-incompatible God in the forever realm.

The math,
Freewill alone:
2/3 angels saved by means of a Judgment of Law, 1/3 or less humans are saved in the same way.

But with influence from angels:
zero humans are saved.

With Jesus' self-sacrifice:
1/3 or less humans will be saved by means of a Judgment of Covenant.

Promise from the completely sin-incompatible God,
If angels passed the Judgment of Law or humans passed the Judgment of Covenant, God would bear with them in eternity no matter what (as a Shepherd to His sheep).