Modest Dress for Women.

TPop said:

A lot of people at my church, men, wear suits. I don't own a suit.
Alot of the women wear dresses. My wife mostly does.

Sunday morning is much more formal.
Sunday night is much more formal.
Wednesday night is much more relaxed.

I heard once a lady that was talked to because she brought her kids to church Sunday morning in their PJs. People actually complained. Turns out, she is poor, single parent, and she is doing her best to get her kids to church!

Stop looking for other peoples sins. Especially when they are not even sins.
Women are not responsible for men's eyes and thoughts. That is up to the Man to train himself to not be subdued by his thoughts and feelings.

Churches need to teach TRAINING in things to their people! Its all about training!

Peace and Blessings

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I agree. People should wear whatever they feel comfortable in, this is what the vicar says in my church. If men can’t handle a bit of skin on show, they need to take a look at themselves.

Jermayn said:

Asking a question in regard to 1 Timothy 2:9-10, which states:

"I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God" (NIV).

How would you define the "dress code", if you will, described in this excerpt?

Do you think churches should have a defined dress code, such as guidance on neckline, skirt/pant length, sleeve length, etc., or do you think the interpretation should be left up to the individual?

Would you confront a woman who you thought may be pushing the boundaries with the way they were dressing in church? What about in public in general? If so, how? (I'm speaking of a fellow believer here, not just any random woman you think is dressed inappropriate.)

If a fellow believer approached you and said a woman in your church was dressing in a manner that caused them to either fall under temptation or to sin, how would you address this situation?

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I think there is some truth to how we dress and present ourselves and the messages it may send out to others. How we dress is an issue for public life and not just the church. We have certain dress codes for different situations that we deem appropriate. Like a suit or formal wear for important events and more casual wear when relaxing.

But when we socialise we tend to dress up and this is really an evolutionary instinct for attracting a mate. But unlike animals we have ethical codes and sometimes that line is hard to work out when business and pleasure are mixed.

I read somewhere that females wear high heels as this thrusts the hips forward as a position of being ready to mate. Red coloured makeup is also a signal of mating as in nature and so are other bright colours. The same with males in the style of clothing mean to exentuate parts of the body. Depending on the norms certain dress is recognized as sexually motivated.

This brings the issue as what exactly is the kind of dress code that is appropriate. Is it makeup itself, red lipstick, tight clothing, loose clothing. The Communist gt around this by making everyone where uniforms. So did our schools and many other professionals. Maybe we should all wear sack cloths lol.

But I do think there is something in the idea of not really caring about dressing up or looking good in the worldly and material sense which enables people to see past all that and get to a point of common ground where we can be closer to God.

I think some people think too much into it. Contrary to what some men think, not all women dress to impress the opposite sex. As a woman, when I choose what to wear, my aim is to look presentable and tidy and to also feel comfortable. When I wear a short dress in summer, it’s because I like to keep cool and I can’t stand being too hot. It’s not to attract attention. I do wear makeup every time I leave the house, which I’ve been doing since the age of 15. I feel bare without makeup on my face and lacking in confidence. It’s so I feel comfortable in myself.

Sunflower39 said:

I attend an Anglo-Catholic church and it’s pretty relaxed. People turn up wearing all sorts and nobody cares. I usually wear jeans and a top, but not too low cut or I’ll wear a dress but not down to my ankles, I’m not an old lady! I have worn short dresses but not too short.

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Can I ask which of the following you consider "too short"?
A
B
C
D

Some persons do not consider A, or B "too short". I'd take a guess your short dress was at the length of A. Would I be correct?

CoreyD said:

Can I ask which of the following you consider "too short"?
A
B
C
D

Some persons do not consider A, or B "too short". I'd take a guess your short dress was at the length of A. Would I be correct?

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Well definitely not C or D…I wouldn’t wear them. Yeah, probably A or perhaps B.

Sunflower39 said:

I think some people think too much into it. Contrary to what some men think, not all women dress to impress the opposite sex. As a woman, when I choose what to wear, my aim is to look presentable and tidy and to also feel comfortable. When I wear a short dress in summer, it’s because I like to keep cool and I can’t stand being too hot. It’s not to attract attention. I do wear makeup every time I leave the house, which I’ve been doing since the age of 15. I feel bare without makeup on my face and lacking in confidence. It’s so I feel comfortable in myself.

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You are not alone in this view, but what do you think - do you think people who go naked are doing so to attract attention. Or, might it be they just want to feel comfortable, and not be too hot?

Sometimes, the things we do, in our own little mindset - our way of thinking, do not take into consideration, other things around us, or other people around us.

Hence, we are reminded by the apostles, to give consideration to other things, when we are about to do anything.
1) God - 1 Corinthians 10:31
2) Other persons - Philippians 2:3, 4

Sometimes applying the scripture require we come out of our "comfort zone:.
Sadly, many do not want to do that, but it never was easy for any of God's servants to do everything that God requires of us.
Even Jesus had to disown himself, and commanded his followers do the same. Matthew 16:24
The apostle Paul said, the Christian has to "no longer live for themselves". 2 Corinthians 5:15

If we want it easy, we will do what pleases us, and many have chosen to take this course, sadly.
I don't think it's as much a matter of thinking that women are dressing to impress the opposite sex, more than it is a matter of standing out as different form the world, and its loose lifestyles, and conducting oneself as one professing to reverence God. 1 Timothy 2:9

In other words, it's like a belonging.
According to James 4:4, we can belong to the world, or we can belong to God.
When people observe us, can they tell whom we belong to, or represent?

Sunflower39 said:

Well definitely not C or D…I wouldn’t wear them. Yeah, probably A or perhaps B.

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I made a good guess.
Hmmm. That's of interest.

I have a question though.
Do you think that men looking at a girl's legs, especially when she sits, in a skirt above her knees, are giving any thought to whether she is interested in attracting the opposite sex, or not?
Does that usually matter? Or, are men more thinking about what kind of girl they are by how they dress?

MyChainsAreGone said:

Something needs to be said.

The Bible does NOT teach modesty as it is taught by most western Christian churches today.

There's literally only one verse in all of the Bible that supposedly teaches this doctrine, and even a simple examination of the text shows that it is not talking at all about sexual propriety in attire for women.

Modesty, according to its real definition, simply means to have a moderate view of oneself.

We still use that word that way from time to time, I have a modest income, I live in a modest house, I drive a modest car.

That is what the word means as it is found in the text in 1 Timothy 2:9

That's why the KJV translators used it, because that's what Paul's meaning was in the passage.

But somehow over time, Western culture has decided to give a very different definition to the word, and made that new definition the primary meaning.

Then we've jumped to this erroneous conclusion that somehow the Bible teaches the sort of modesty that our redefined understanding of the word tells us it is.

It is an egregious error, because we are elevating a man-made notion to the level of a biblical mandate.

Let me say it again.

The Bible does not teach the kind of modesty that everybody has been talking about in this thread.

Full stop.

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Thanks for the use of examples.
I don't mind hearing an explanation on what makes the house and car modest.
That would shed some light on what modest dress is.

Is the house modest because it does not draw undue attention to itself, or its owner? Is that likewise the case with the car?
Would it then be the case that modest dress would not draw undue attention to the outfit and the one wearing it?

If otherwise, and you have something else in mind about the house and car, I'd be happy to hear, so I can get your perspective on modest apparel.

Jermayn said:

Asking a question in regard to 1 Timothy 2:9-10, which states:

"I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God" (NIV).

How would you define the "dress code", if you will, described in this excerpt?

Do you think churches should have a defined dress code, such as guidance on neckline, skirt/pant length, sleeve length, etc., or do you think the interpretation should be left up to the individual?

Would you confront a woman who you thought may be pushing the boundaries with the way they were dressing in church? What about in public in general? If so, how? (I'm speaking of a fellow believer here, not just any random woman you think is dressed inappropriate.)

If a fellow believer approached you and said a woman in your church was dressing in a manner that caused them to either fall under temptation or to sin, how would you address this situation?

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I am a guy, but this is my approach to First Timothy 2:9-10:

The "dress code" described in 1 Timothy 2:9-10 can be understood as a call for modest and decent attire. This means avoiding elaborate hairstyles, excessive jewelry, and expensive clothing that might draw undue attention to one's physical appearance. Instead, the focus is on good deeds and a godly character.

Regarding whether churches should have a defined dress code, it can be beneficial to have some guidelines for appropriateness in attire. However, the specifics of the dress code may vary from one church to another, depending on cultural context and personal preferences. Ultimately, it is important for churches to foster an environment where individuals feel comfortable expressing their faith while also respecting the sensitivities of others.

If I thought a woman was pushing the boundaries with her attire in church, I would approach her with kindness and respect, recognizing that our interpretations of modesty may differ. I might share my concern for the potential distraction or discomfort of others in the congregation and offer a suggestion for a more modest alternative. In public, the situation might be more complex as there may be no clear church guidelines or authority figures present to address the issue.

If a fellow believer approached me with a concern about a woman's dress in our church, I would listen sympathetically and validate the fellow believer's perspective. I would encourage the person to express their concerns directly with the woman, if feeling comfortable doing so, or offer to help facilitate a respectful and loving conversation between the two parties. Ultimately, the goal would be to maintain unity in the body of Christ while also fostering an environment where individuals can worship God freely and without distraction.

For guys wearing shirts with holes or tank tops to church, the appropriateness of their attire depends on the specific dress code guidelines established by the church. Some churches may allow casual attire, while others might prefer more formal or modest clothing.

If a church has no explicit dress code, it's essential to consider the overall context and cultural norms of the congregation. Wearing a shirt with holes or a tank top might not be considered inappropriate in some settings such as a barbecue grill-out, partaking in an Olympic event, or at a friend's basketball game, but holy shirts or tanks showing hairy armpits (pun intended) could potentially distract or discomfort others.

*Note, I do not wear tank tops, cos they look kinda ugly, but I am not here to judge.

AlexB23 said:

I am a guy, but this is my approach Timothy 2:9-10:

The "dress code" described in 1 Timothy 2:9-10 can be understood as a call for modest and decent attire. This means avoiding elaborate hairstyles, excessive jewelry, and expensive clothing that might draw undue attention to one's physical appearance. Instead, the focus is on good deeds and a godly character.

Regarding whether churches should have a defined dress code, it can be beneficial to have some guidelines for appropriateness in attire. However, the specifics of the dress code may vary from one church to another, depending on cultural context and personal preferences. Ultimately, it is important for churches to foster an environment where individuals feel comfortable expressing their faith while also respecting the sensitivities of others.

If I thought a woman was pushing the boundaries with her attire in church, I would approach her with kindness and respect, recognizing that our interpretations of modesty may differ. I might share my concern for the potential distraction or discomfort of others in the congregation and offer a suggestion for a more modest alternative. In public, the situation might be more complex as there may be no clear church guidelines or authority figures present to address the issue.

If a fellow believer approached me with a concern about a woman's dress in our church, I would listen sympathetically and validate the fellow believer's perspective. I would encourage the person to express their concerns directly with the woman, if feeling comfortable doing so, or offer to help facilitate a respectful and loving conversation between the two parties. Ultimately, the goal would be to maintain unity in the body of Christ while also fostering an environment where individuals can worship God freely and without distraction.

For guys wearing shirts with holes or tank tops to church, the appropriateness of their attire depends on the specific dress code guidelines established by the church. Some churches may allow casual attire, while others might prefer more formal or modest clothing.

If a church has no explicit dress code, it's essential to consider the overall context and cultural norms of the congregation. Wearing a shirt with holes or a tank top might not be considered inappropriate in some settings such as a barbecue grill-out, partaking in an Olympic event, or at a friend's basketball game, but holy shirts or tanks showing hairy armpits (pun intended) could potentially distract or discomfort others.

*Note, I do not wear tank tops, cos they look kinda ugly, but I am not here to judge.

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Well said.
I would just add one thing, in case we are tempted to leave out what we do not like.

The "dress code" described in 1 Timothy 2:9-10 can be understood as a call for modest and decent attire.
This means avoiding elaborate hairstyles, excessive jewelry, and expensive clothing... also tight fitting and or revealing clothing, that might draw undue attention to one's physical appearance, and private areas (body parts, or even show too much skin). Instead, the focus is on good deeds and a godly character.

Edit:
If anyone objects to the additions, I propose it's fine for the women to wear a body suit.
Any objections?

CoreyD said:

I made a good guess.
Hmmm. That's of interest.

I have a question though.
Do you think that men looking at a girl's legs, especially when she sits, in a skirt above her knees, are giving any thought to whether she is interested in attracting the opposite sex, or not?
Does that usually matter? Or, are men more thinking about what kind of girl they are by how they dress?

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Well, I think that’s up to the men to control themselves and stop being pervs. Also, if they are assuming a girl is a certain type of girl just because she’s wearing a short dress/skirt, they are being judgmental. Personally, I wear these during the summer because I like to feel the air on my legs and I stay nice and cool.

CoreyD said:

Well said.
I would just add one thing, in case we are tempted to leave out what we do not like.

The "dress code" described in 1 Timothy 2:9-10 can be understood as a call for modest and decent attire.
This means avoiding elaborate hairstyles, excessive jewelry, and expensive clothing... also tight fitting and or revealing clothing, that might draw undue attention to one's physical appearance, and private areas (body parts, or even show too much skin). Instead, the focus is on good deeds and a godly character.

Edit:
If anyone objects to the additions, I propose it's fine for the women to wear a body suit.
Any objections?

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Tight fitting clothes look gross, and should be banned from churches.

I don't think a woman has to dress skimpy or in something expensive to look beautiful.

DavidTheGnome said:

I don't think a woman has to dress skimpy or in something expensive to look beautiful.

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Agreed. Women look good in modest clothing, such as a blazer. I am not into skimpy folks.

UK TV Actress: Freema Agyeman

seeking.IAM said:

See Vatican dress code here.

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I’ve got a few tattoos, all Christian based. i wonder if mine would be allowed?

In my experience few are willing to approach someone about their attire. They'll tsk tsk with friends and whisper behind their back. They're afraid to confront them in light their response.

Unlike earlier times, women are less knowledgeable about clothing. They don't know fabric, cut or the nuances of silhouette. Since they no longer sew they're unable to make adjustments for their frame. A top will rest in different places depending on your height and torso. The same holds true for skirts.

A woman more endowed in the hips, thighs, bust and buttocks needs certain tweaks that others may not require. When you're buying off the rack nothing fits. It wasn't made for your frame it's made for a prototype. You can circumvent these challenges by understanding your silhouette, focal points and how to downplay features.

That sounds simple at first glance but girls aren't taught that anymore. Unless you develop a passion for fashion, learn how to sew, or take an etiquette class the subject goes uncovered and you make do like the rest. The resurgence of clothing capsules have introduced the topic to a wider audience. But it's still a niche within the population.

As a fashion creative, my conception of modesty is unlike most. I can draft an idea and bring it to life. I have a greater regard for materials and workmanship. While modesty never crosses my thoughts there's a way I want to be seen and I'm aware of what it conveys.

My calling card is respectability. It's important for me to look like a lady, dress like a lady and conduct myself like one. That's the first thing they notice when they cross my path. I don't want to be sexualized or leered at. I don't wear things that encourage that behavior.

When choosing attire you always start with the setting.
Then consider your level of activity (primarily standing, sitting, etc.).
Followed by culture which can include dress code.
End with personal elements (favorite color, style, and so on).

Most people start with last one that's why they err. Your favorite piece may be modest but may not be ideal for church. There's merit in developing a uniform. A specific look for work, church and casual outings. It segments your wardrobe and minimizes faux pas.

I address extravagance through tastefulness. I'm not brandishing labels or gaudy trinkets. I prefer elegant accessories that complement and won't draw attention to themselves.

~bella

Sunflower39 said:

Well, I think that’s up to the men to control themselves and stop being pervs. Also, if they are assuming a girl is a certain type of girl just because she’s wearing a short dress/skirt, they are being judgmental. Personally, I wear these during the summer because I like to feel the air on my legs and I stay nice and cool.

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We cannot stop worldly men from being worldly - pervs, you call them
However, what they think is important to Christians. 1 Peter 2:12
The "pervs" actually make judgments based on their experience.

It's sort of like a man who observes beetles. He isn't going to think a termite is a beetle.
We know why.
Likewise, a "perv" is not going to think the same of all young women who walk by.
He is selective.

In fact, some girls do get respect. Respect is earned.
Interestingly enough, it's not only men that have this view - the ones you call "pervs".
Some men, and women, actually think that respect, or lack of it, is at the root of the problem.
Modesty. A Sign of Respect for Men and Women

I agree, because I have seen it personally. A woman who walks into the Ghetto dressed modestly - that is, not showing too much skin, and drawing attention to her body, earns the respect of the "guys on the block".
A woman walks through with a short skirt, and you will see and hear the difference.

I think this guy offers some food for thought, for apparently, quite a lot who identify as Christian.
"Many women do not even seem to reali[z]e the extent to which their clothing is sending certain messages. A lot of this comes down to the way men and women are wired."

I agree with @LovebirdsFlying and question the example's inclusion on the thread.

~bella

LovebirdsFlying said:

Zeroing in on this part to raise a question. In parts of the inner city, male and female alike feel a need to fit in, because standing out puts them in danger.

Suppose (name chosen at random) Jenny walks around in her neighborhood, the only one wearing a tasteful knee-length skirt, a buttoned up blouse, a blazer, and shoes that don't have heels high enough to force her to thrust out and sway certain body parts as she walks. She's also wearing her hair and makeup in a way that, anywhere else, would not grab everybody's attention. But all of the other young woman present are dressed one of two ways. Either they're wearing a micromini skirt with a midriff top and stiletto heels, and they're blinged out with heavy makeup and jewelry. Or they're copying the male way of dress, IE sagging jeans belted so low that their boxer shorts are visible. Their sports jerseys are long and loose enough to cover the sag, but they have to hold their pants up when they walk, or they'll fall down, so the boxers stay visible.

I, personally, don't consider either of these ways of dressing "modest."

But Jenny, in her very un-flashiness, is going to stand out among the other young women, and this is going to trigger resentment. They are not going to see her as modest. They're going to see her as putting on airs. "What, do you think you're better than us, or something?" She's no more financially equipped to move out of that neighborhood than anybody else is. Jenny is not safe in this environment. What she will get is anything but respect. She'll be targeted, ganged up on, and harrassed. Not necessarily by the men, but by the other women. If she's lucky, they MIGHT stop at that. I've seen THAT personally too.

What is "modest" in this environment? Dressing as everyone else does, and blending in, or wearing conservative pieces that cover her up, and causing her peers to think she looks down on them and thinks too much of herself?

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No, one does not dress revealingly to fit in. One dresses according to what God would have them. Just like one would act according to what God would have them act. And if there be consequences so be it. We are to be happy to suffer for the Lord's sake and His will like our Savior.

We are responsible for putting it out there. We are not responsible in a sense for what people do. But we are responsible if we are the reason for what they do if we are being a stumbling block. Men and women should not dress in a manner that is sexually provocative.