Protestant--seeker seeking truth

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
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You raise interesting questions. There are two schools of thought which have developed. One is typically termed the Regulative Principle of Worship and the other is the Normative Principle of Worship. You might wish to look into them. There is probably good information online about them.
Sorry, no. With respect, Protestants are the ones inventing these doctrines and they are the ones espousing them on CF. It's not unreasonable of me to expect them to be able to justify their beliefs without my doing their homework for them.

My questions stand.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Sorry, no. With respect, Protestants are the ones inventing these doctrines and they are the ones espousing them on CF. It's not unreasonable of me to expect them to be able to justify their beliefs without my doing their homework for them.

My questions stand.

If you don't want answers to your questions that is your issue. Rather than post either a length cut-and-paste job for you (which you would naturally reject) or posting my summary of it (which you would also reject) I choose not to waste my time and effort. Just for your own information, the Catholic Church is a prime example of the normative principle of worship.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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If you don't want answers to your questions that is your issue. Rather than post either a length cut-and-paste job for you (which you would naturally reject) or posting my summary of it (which you would also reject) I choose not to waste my time and effort. Just for your own information, the Catholic Church is a prime example of the normative principle of worship.
You are correct.
 
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thecolorsblend

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If you don't want answers to your questions that is your issue. Rather than post either a length cut-and-paste job for you (which you would naturally reject) or posting my summary of it (which you would also reject) I choose not to waste my time and effort. Just for your own information, the Catholic Church is a prime example of the normative principle of worship.
"I can post anything I want but you have to figure out what I mean on your own."

Yeah, seems legit.
 
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Bob Crowley

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Rather than reinvent the wheel, I lifted this from an online reference to the Catholic Catechism.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm

PURGATORY

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

1032
This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

It boils down to God's demand for perfection eg. "Be ye perfect therefore, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Nothing will get into heaven unless it is perfect. You may remember the parable of the guest who was found not wearing attire suitable for a wedding and was promptly tossed out on his ear. God may forgive, but He's not going to accept our bad habits into heaven, unless they've been fully and finally dealt with.
 
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J. Elias

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Thanks for your input, guys!

One trend I seem to notice in the opposition to the liturgical traditions is that the Church is not authoritative over Scripture (e.g. Sola Scriptura). If the Holy Spirit is just as capable of preserving the Scriptures for us, why can the Spirit not preserve correct tradition in the Church through men? For example, the understanding of the Real Presence in the Eucharist, or "transubstantiation" was unchallenged until the 15th and 16 centuries of the Church. While the doctrine of transubstantiation may not be "biblical" per se (though this could be argued), could it not be just as valid? Consider that the Jewish people had the written Tanakh (Old Testament) and oral Mishnah (oral traditions passed down).

Why is it the Scriptures are considered infallible, while Church tradition is not?
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

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Rather than reinvent the wheel, I lifted this from an online reference to the Catholic Catechism.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm

PURGATORY



It boils down to God's demand for perfection eg. "Be ye perfect therefore, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Nothing will get into heaven unless it is perfect. You may remember the parable of the guest who was found not wearing attire suitable for a wedding and was promptly tossed out on his ear. God may forgive, but He's not going to accept our bad habits into heaven, unless they've been fully and finally dealt with.

'Heaven' is for the birds; not for believers in Jesus. In Jesus is the true believers' heaven. If there be another 'heaven', it is for superstitious fools outside.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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'Heaven' is for the birds; not for believers in Jesus. In Jesus is the true believers' heaven. If there be another 'heaven', it is for superstitious fools outside.

So, where is the good thief who was promised to be with our Lord in Paradise.
 
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