7 Day creation- literal or figurative?

tatteredsoul said:

Interesting...

You were right.

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If you read Ezekiel 28:17, when speaking in reference to Satan/Lucifer.... And, depending on who translated? ... It could legitimately read to say the following.



The Knox translation states the following...





The ASV renders it...




Young's Literal Translation gives us this....



Brightness? Dazzling brightness? That is an indicator as to why we can know that Lucifer used to herald in the mornings of the prehistoric worlds. (Isaiah 14:12) Holman Christian Standard Bible



The prophetic message of Ezekiel has the reader peering back before time as we know it. We must realize that prophesy is not just limited to predicting the future. Prophesy in itself is simply not limited by time. After all... Moses was taken back to the beginning of this world's creation! And, Job (confusingly to us) spoke of dinosaurs that once ruled the earth!

Prophesy enters us into snippets of the realm of God's eternal omniscience. God unlike man and angels is not restricted by time - nor space. That is why we can have passages that reveal glimpses into the prehistoric. About worlds that once covered this planet. And, be told that in the future we will have a new heavens and new earth. Meaning, our present world will then become prehistoric!

If we are to ever understand why we now have angels intertwined with our lives? We must get a better grasp as to why they are watching and allowed to be influencing us. Especially, to begin with. As to why Satan and his angels have been sentenced to the Lake of Fire. But, why are they not there yet.. And, allowed to try things in our world, which is their version of presenting evidence for their defense.

Isn't God's judgment perfect and infallible? Yes, it always is. But, we mere mortal creatures and can be terribly slow in learning what God has always known. Especially to the fallen angels who's lifestyle is one of lies and denials.

God judges according to what He has always known. Then we must catch up by being shown as to why it must be. That is why Satan and his angels are now in the process of seeing God's vindication of His judgment unfolding through our world creation. We are called to be true witnesses for God before His accusers.

grace and peace...

Literal or figurative? Both.

The problem is we understand God "stretched out the heavens", understand acceleration causes clocks to slow, and then people can't figure out why the earth appears to be billions of years old using the rate that clocks tick today to calculate age.

Untill people start applying time dilation effects to the problem there is just no way anyone will be able to understand why one record gives billions and another gives thousands.

One is the rate of decay during the acceleration and one is the rate after creation was complete.

Justatruthseeker said:

Literal or figurative? Both.

The problem is we understand God "stretched out the heavens", understand acceleration causes clocks to slow, and then people can't figure out why the earth appears to be billions of years old using the rate that clocks tick today to calculate age.

Untill people start applying time dilation effects to the problem there is just no way anyone will be able to understand why one record gives billions and another gives thousands.

One is the rate of decay during the acceleration and one is the rate after creation was complete.

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You cannot use Science to prove the Spirit, they are absolutely incompatible. I believe that everything occurring in the KJV Bible, occurs before the “big bang” and the beginning of this Universe; when, "he made the stars also." Genesis 1:16.

Literal.

Justatruthseeker said:

Literal or figurative? Both.

The problem is we understand God "stretched out the heavens", understand acceleration causes clocks to slow, and then people can't figure out why the earth appears to be billions of years old using the rate that clocks tick today to calculate age.

Untill people start applying time dilation effects to the problem there is just no way anyone will be able to understand why one record gives billions and another gives thousands.

One is the rate of decay during the acceleration and one is the rate after creation was complete.

Click to expand...

Another issue relates to the various meanings of 'yom' (day) in Genesis 1 and 2.

1. The light was called 'yom' (Gen 1:3);
   
2. Evening and morning made 'yom' (Gen 1:8);
3. God rested on the 7th 'yom' and he is still resting (Gen 2:3);
4. The day (yom) that the Lord made the earth and the heavens (Gen 2:4).

So, yom (day) has a few meanings in these 2 chapters. I find it difficult to get 24-hour periods out of God creating the universe in 6 days. Seems to me that getting 6 literal days of creation is stretching the boundaries of the meaning of 'day' in Gen 1 & 2.

Augustine of Hippo had various views of the early chapters of Genesis but he did write in The City of God (Bk 11, ch 6), 'For in these days the morning and evening are counted, until, on the sixth day, all things which God then made were finished, and on the seventh the rest of God was mysteriously and sublimely signalized. What kind of days these were it is extremely difficult, or perhaps impossible for us to conceive, and how much more to say!'.

Alister McGrath has an interesting assessment in ‘Augustine’s Origin of Species‘.

Norman Geisler lists these orthodox Christians who held to a universe of millions or more years old. These included: Augustine, B B Warfield, C I Scofield, John Walvoord, Francis Schaeffer, Gleason Archer, Hugh Ross, and most of the leaders who produced the 1978 Chicago Statement on the inerrancy of the Bible (Geisler 2003:650).

Geisler also made this assessment:


I have attempted to deal briefly with some of the issues in, Did God create the world in 6 literal days?

Oz

Works consulted

Geisler, N 2003. Systematic theology: God, creation, vol 2. Minneapolis, Minnesota: BethanyHouse.

Justatruthseeker said:

Literal or figurative? Both.

The problem is we understand God "stretched out the heavens", understand acceleration causes clocks to slow, and then people can't figure out why the earth appears to be billions of years old using the rate that clocks tick today to calculate age.

Untill people start applying time dilation effects to the problem there is just no way anyone will be able to understand why one record gives billions and another gives thousands.

One is the rate of decay during the acceleration and one is the rate after creation was complete.

Click to expand...

Just,

Where do you get the idea that 'another gives thousands'? I presume you are referring to the Bible? Where in the Bible does it give the age of the earth/universe?

Oz

OzSpen said:

Another issue relates to the various meanings of 'yom' (day) in Genesis 1 and 2.

1. The light was called 'yom' (Gen 1:3);
   
2. Evening and morning made 'yom' (Gen 1:8);
3. God rested on the 7th 'yom' and he is still resting (Gen 2:3);
4. The day (yom) that the Lord made the earth and the heavens (Gen 2:4).

So, yom (day) has a few meanings in these 2 chapters. I find it difficult to get 24-hour periods out of God creating the universe in 6 days. Seems to me that getting 6 literal days of creation is stretching the boundaries of the meaning of 'day' in Gen 1 & 2.

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I would say that, "day," in Genesis means the same thing as, "day," in 2 Peter 3:8. Why do you think God is, "still resting?"

Kenneth Redden said:

I would say that, "day," in Genesis means the same thing as, "day," in 2 Peter 3:8. Why do you think God is, "still resting?"

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Why do I think God is still resting, according to Gen 2:2-3?

• The regular closing formula for the day of Genesis 1,such as,'There was evening and there was morning, the fourth day' (Gen 1:19 ESV) is not used of the 7th day.
• According to Heb 4:1-11, the 7th day as the 'Sabbath rest' is so indefinite that the church age is experiencing it.

Oz

OzSpen said:

Why do I think God is still resting, according to Gen 2:2-3?

• The regular closing formula for the day of Genesis 1,such as,'There was evening and there was morning, the fourth day' (Gen 1:19 ESV) is not used of the 7th day.
• According to Heb 4:1-11, the 7th day as the 'Sabbath rest' is so indefinite that the church age is experiencing it.

Oz

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Well, okay. How do you reconcile the plural form of, "heavens," in Genesis 2:1?
The reason why the 7th day has no evening or morning is because the 7th day exists in the everlasting, from whence comes Genesis 1:1.

OzSpen said:

Why do I think God is still resting, according to Gen 2:2-3?

• The regular closing formula for the day of Genesis 1,such as,'There was evening and there was morning, the fourth day' (Gen 1:19 ESV) is not used of the 7th day.
• According to Heb 4:1-11, the 7th day as the 'Sabbath rest' is so indefinite that the church age is experiencing it.

Oz

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The idea that God is "resting" is not true since the Trinity is STILL working today. IF God had already rested (Heb-ceased) from ALL of His work, it would be impossible to be saved today. God's 7th Day has not ending because it's eternity.

Aman777 said:

The idea that God is "resting" is not true since the Trinity is STILL working today. IF God had already rested (Heb-ceased) from ALL of His work, it would be impossible to be saved today. God's 7th Day has not ending because it's eternity.

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That's how we get multiple occurrences of the days of the Creation; from eternity to eternity, "from everlasting to everlasting". Psalms 90:2, Psalms 103:17 & Psalms 106:48. From the ending to the beginning.

Aman777 said:

The idea that God is "resting" is not true since the Trinity is STILL working today. IF God had already rested (Heb-ceased) from ALL of His work, it would be impossible to be saved today. God's 7th Day has not ending because it's eternity.

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The Lord Jesus Christ is resting; His work was finished on the cross. John 19:30.

How is the Trinity STILL working today?

Aman777 said:

The idea that God is "resting" is not true since the Trinity is STILL working today. IF God had already rested (Heb-ceased) from ALL of His work, it would be impossible to be saved today. God's 7th Day has not ending because it's eternity.

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God rested from what He did in Genesis on the previous six days. .

Kenneth Redden said:

The Lord Jesus Christ is resting; His work was finished on the cross. John 19:30.

How is the Trinity STILL working today?

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Jesus finished His work of providing salvation to lost mankind on the cross...BUT...He tells us that He is STILL working:

Jhn 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

It takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to "create" a New creature in Christ Spiritually. IF the Trinity (God) had rested in the beginning, it would not be possible to be born again. Gen 1:26 and John 14:16 confirms this.

Has God, the Holy Spirit, rested from ALL of His work as Gen 2:2-3 states? Of course not. Just ask ANY Gospel preacher. Amen?

-57 said:

God rested from what He did in Genesis on the previous six days. .

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If what you say is true, then WHEN, in the past, were Christians given dominion over viruses, mosquitoes and Angels 1Co 6:3 as Gen 1:28 states? Also, WHEN, in the past, did all living creatures become vegetarians as Gen 1:30 states. Isaiah tells us that Bears and Lions eating straw happens AFTER Jesus returns at the end of the present 6th Day. Isa 11:7 God will NOT rest or cease creating until AFTER Jesus returns to this lost and dying world. The 7th Day is FUTURE. Amen?

Aman777 said:

If what you say is true, then WHEN, in the past, were Christians given dominion over viruses, mosquitoes and Angels 1Co 6:3

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We haven't been given this dominion yet. You biblee verse about angels is talking about a future event. Keep in mind Gen 1:28 is prior to the fall.

Aman777 said:

WHEN, in the past, did all living creatures become vegetarians as Gen 1:30 states.

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Once again. Prior to the fall....and they will be restored to the pre-fall state in the future.

Aman777 said:

God will NOT rest or cease creating until AFTER Jesus returns to this lost and dying world. The 7th Day is FUTURE. Amen?

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You can think whatever you want to think...but my bible sys God rested on the 7th day. So do the 10 commandments. I have no biblical reason to think the 7th day is future.

-57 said:

God rested from what He did in Genesis on the previous six days. .

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Yes, I agree with that.

-57 said:

We haven't been given this dominion yet. You biblee verse about angels is talking about a future event. Keep in mind Gen 1:28 is prior to the fall.

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Doesn't work, since the traditional religious teaching is that the time in the Garden was on another Day/Age. IOW, in the past.

2Co 6:2 (For He saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured (helped) thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, NOW is the day of salvation.)

*** Once again. Prior to the fall....and they will be restored to the pre-fall state in the future.

Not so, since IF one looks at the 6th Day as IF in the past, it cannot be in the future. Today is the 6th Day/Age in the Creation of the perfect Heaven. It will remain the 6th Day/Age until the "host" of Heaven is complete and the host of Heaven will NOT be complete, until the end of the 6th Day when the last sinner to be saved is saved and safely in Heaven as God tells us in:

Gen 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, (Heb-brought to perfection) and ALL the host of them.

IF one thinks that the Creation has already been brought to perfection, it's hard for them to explain WHY there are still funeral homes doing business, today. Remember that the LAST enemy which SHALL be destroyed in DEATH. 1Co 15:26 God's work of creating CANNOT be complete until DEATH is destroyed. Neither can God's perfect Heaven be complete until ALL the host of Heaven, is in Heaven.

*** You can think whatever you want to think...but my bible sys God rested on the 7th day. So do the 10 commandments. I have no biblical reason to think the 7th day is future.

Not in the Hebrew tense. God's creating of mankind in Christ is written in the Hebrew Imperfect tense, which means that it is NOT yet complete. Gen 1:27 continues today and every Christian Church, teaches that God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image, Col 1:15 which is Spiritually In Christ, Today. Jesus Christ IS the ONLY Image of the invisible Spirit of God Col 1:15 and the Only God ever formed physically or that EVER will be formed physically. Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is NO Saviour. To be "created in God's Image" is to be born again Spiritually in Christ. Amen?

Kenneth Redden said:

Yes, I agree with that.

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Then please explain HOW God rests. Does He get tired? WHY did He only rest for 24 hours and hasn't rested since? God's rest (Heb-shabath) will NOT happen until His creation of the perfect Heaven is brought to perfection. It's the ONLY way God's "perfect" work can end. It will NOT happen until Jesus returns to finish God's perfect work on Planet Earth. This is FUTURE and when Jesus changes ALL creatures into vegetarians. Gen 1:30 Amen?

Kenneth Redden said:

You cannot use Science to prove the Spirit, they are absolutely incompatible. I believe that everything occurring in the KJV Bible, occurs before the “big bang” and the beginning of this Universe; when, "he made the stars also." Genesis 1:16.

Literal.

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I can do exactly that since I am not sure what you believe, but I certainly believe the same Author penned both the Word and the Works.

Also I accept Romans 1:20 which apparently you do not.

So tell me if we can't use science to understand what was made which in the end will confirm the invisible power and Divinity of God, then do you believe Paul was mistaken or lying?

Only by understanding that which was made can those invisible aspects be brought forth to the world.

It is the very science itself that will in the end leave them with no excuse.

I mean let's face it, that's their excuse right now isn't it, the same as your excuse?

OzSpen said:

Another issue relates to the various meanings of 'yom' (day) in Genesis 1 and 2.

1. The light was called 'yom' (Gen 1:3);
   
2. Evening and morning made 'yom' (Gen 1:8);
3. God rested on the 7th 'yom' and he is still resting (Gen 2:3);
4. The day (yom) that the Lord made the earth and the heavens (Gen 2:4).

So, yom (day) has a few meanings in these 2 chapters. I find it difficult to get 24-hour periods out of God creating the universe in 6 days. Seems to me that getting 6 literal days of creation is stretching the boundaries of the meaning of 'day' in Gen 1 & 2.

Augustine of Hippo had various views of the early chapters of Genesis but he did write in The City of God (Bk 11, ch 6), 'For in these days the morning and evening are counted, until, on the sixth day, all things which God then made were finished, and on the seventh the rest of God was mysteriously and sublimely signalized. What kind of days these were it is extremely difficult, or perhaps impossible for us to conceive, and how much more to say!'.

Alister McGrath has an interesting assessment in ‘Augustine’s Origin of Species‘.

Norman Geisler lists these orthodox Christians who held to a universe of millions or more years old. These included: Augustine, B B Warfield, C I Scofield, John Walvoord, Francis Schaeffer, Gleason Archer, Hugh Ross, and most of the leaders who produced the 1978 Chicago Statement on the inerrancy of the Bible (Geisler 2003:650).

Geisler also made this assessment:

There are unprovable presuppositions in most, if not all, the scientific arguments for an old earth…; that is, an earth that is millions or billions of years is biblically possible but not absolutely provable…. Given the basics of modern physics, it seems plausible that the universe is billions of years old. And as shown [in what he presented] there is nothing in Scripture that contradicts this…. There is no demonstrated conflict between Genesis 1-2 and scientific fact…. A literal interpretation of Genesis is consistent with a universe that is billions of years old (Geisler 2003:648, 650).​

I have attempted to deal briefly with some of the issues in, Did God create the world in 6 literal days?

Oz

Works consulted

Geisler, N 2003. Systematic theology: God, creation, vol 2. Minneapolis, Minnesota: BethanyHouse.

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I personally have no problem with a 6 day view, as since expansion is claimed to have happened faster than c then the correction for time dilation would be exponential. After all, a thousand years...... What is a day to a God of energy that controls the very thing we are made of and causes the changes to those clocks?

Nor do I have a problem with long periods. After all I certainly do not believe that all the animals were brought before Adam to be named and that he did so in a mere day.

Nor do I believe God would warn Adam about actions that would lead to death and punish him for it if Adam was not aware what death was. I believe Adam was in the garden for an unspecified period in which he not only named all the animals but observed them mating, giving birth and also dying.

How could he understand what death was without ever having observed it?