Pray without ceasing.

JM · Sep 22, 2016

In 1 Thessalonians we read, "Pray without ceasing." I am currently re-reading Ignatius Brainchaninov's work on the subject which outlines the Eastern Orthodox tradition of saying the Jesus Prayer, with this verse being cited as the reason given for the practice. Somehow, according to Eastern Orthodoxy, the Jesus Prayer fulfills the command found in verse 16.

1 Thessalonians 5 reads,

16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Is there a tradition and practice, a formula similar to the Jesus Prayer, surrounding the command to, "rejoice evermore" or how to "in everything give thanks?" If not why is verse 16 pulled from the rest of the passage to justify the practice and the other two commands are left?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

ArmyMatt · Sep 22, 2016

ceaseless prayer is a gift. when someone gets ceaseless prayer, the rejoicing and giving thanks in all things come with the prayer. so yeah, the command is ceaseless prayer, the other two parts of that verse go with ceaseless prayer.

JM · Sep 23, 2016

ArmyMatt said:
ceaseless prayer is a gift. when someone gets ceaseless prayer, the rejoicing and giving thanks in all things come with the prayer. so yeah, the command is ceaseless prayer, the other two parts of that verse go with ceaseless prayer.

How did you come to that determination? Could you demonstrate that from the text?

Thanks Matt.

ArmyMatt · Sep 23, 2016

JM said:
How did you come to that determination? Could you demonstrate that from the text?

it's how the saints who defend ceaseless prayer explain it. read their experiences of their visions and theorias and you will see the three together.

JM · Sep 23, 2016

ArmyMatt said:
it's how the saints who defend ceaseless prayer explain it. read their experiences of their visions and theorias and you will see the three together.

Sure, I'll read them. Post the links.

ArmyMatt · Sep 23, 2016

the Desert Fathers are a good place to start

JM · Sep 24, 2016

ArmyMatt said:
the Desert Fathers are a good place to start

I've read them. Would you like me to post a few quotes and interact with them on this forum?

I have Merton's edition.

truefiction1 · Sep 24, 2016

I'm sure JM, that by now you've read "A Conversation of Nicholas Motovilov with Seraphim of Sarov". If I'm not mistaken, a reading of it can provide a good idea about how unceasing prayer can help with the acquisition of the Holy Spirit, Who not only "helps" us to pray as we ought to (since without Him we cannot even do that) but also enables us to have joy and thankfulness. Perhaps you read it a long time ago and might review it again for a refresher, or if you've never read it, it may be a good place to look.

Here's the link if you want it:

http://www.st-seraphim.com/motovil.htm

JM · Sep 24, 2016

truefiction1 said:
I'm sure JM, that by now you've read "A Conversation of Nicholas Motovilov with Seraphim of Sarov". If I'm not mistaken, a reading of it can provide a good idea about how unceasing prayer can help with the acquisition of the Holy Spirit, Who not only "helps" us to pray as we ought to (since without Him we cannot even do that) but also enables us to have joy and thankfulness. Perhaps you read it a long time ago and might review it again for a refresher, or if you've never read it, it may be a good place to look.

I haven't. Do you have a link? If not I'll try to inter library loan a copy.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

truefiction1 · Sep 24, 2016

JM said:
I haven't. Do you have a link? If not I'll try to inter library loan a copy.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I added the link at the end of my previous post after forgetting to do it originally.

JM · Sep 24, 2016

truefiction1 said:
I added the link at the end of my previous post after forgetting to do it originally.

Ah, doing too many things at once, I missed it. My bad.

ArmyMatt · Sep 24, 2016

JM said:
Would you like me to post a few quotes and interact with them on this forum?

as it relates to the OP, sure.

JM · Sep 25, 2016

Found this.

ArmyMatt · Sep 25, 2016

But doesn't this answer your OP? St Seraphim was a known mystic and hesychast, and you can see the fruit of ceaseless prayer and the joy he has because of his communion with God

JM · Sep 25, 2016

ArmyMatt said:
But doesn't this answer your OP? St Seraphim was a known mystic and hesychast, and you can see the fruit of ceaseless prayer and the joy he has because of his communion with God

Not really, correlation is not causation. My grandfather is an unbeliever and reminds me a lot of Seraphim in his demeanor and manners. He is always happy and uplifting, and very thankful. He almost never comments on religion but when he does he quietly opposes it and does so in such a manner that makes you believe atheism is just as valid as Christianity. (It's not.)

In the op I asked how one verse was taken from the context of "Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks..." but I was told they were related. That's all. The passage doesn't say that ceaseless pray causes you to rejoice and give thanks. One could use this argumentation to claim giving thanks leads you to ceaseless prayer and rejoicing or rejoicing leads you to creaseless prayer. Doesn't it make more sense to say they are all three elements are admonishments? Especially considering Philippians 4:6, Colossians 4:2 and Ephesians 6:18 where we find further instruction and meaning on prayer? Paul strikes me as a fella who talked nonstop about Jesus not someone bent over in prayer all day.

Just my Orthodox Protestant understanding.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: Seraphim does seem like a nice guy.

truefiction1 · Sep 25, 2016

JM said:
Not really, correlation is not causation. My grandfather is an unbeliever and reminds me a lot of Seraphim in his demeanor and manners. He is always happy and uplifting, and very thankful. He almost never comments on religion but when he does he quietly opposes it and does so in such a manner that makes you believe atheism is just as valid as Christianity. (It's not.)

In the op I asked how one verse was taken from the context of "Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks..." but I was told they were related. That's all. The passage doesn't say that ceaseless pray causes you to rejoice and give thanks. One could use this argumentation to claim giving thanks leads you to ceaseless prayer and rejoicing or rejoicing leads you to creaseless prayer. Doesn't it make more sense to say they are all three elements are admonishments? Especially considering Philippians 4:6, Colossians 4:2 and Ephesians 6:18 where we find further instruction and meaning on prayer? Paul strikes me as a fella who talked nonstop about Jesus not someone bent over in prayer all day.

Just my Orthodox Protestant understanding.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: Seraphim does seem like a nice guy.

Paul's heart prayed without ceasing whilst he talked about Jesus all day. That is why he tells us to do it. Why would he tell us to pray without ceasing if he himself wasn't doing the same.

If a person struggles to pray without ceasing they may receive the gift of pure prayer of the heart.

ArmyMatt · Sep 25, 2016

JM said:
He is always happy and uplifting, and very thankful.

that's not the same as the joy you can see in the saints, as good as it is.

JM said:
In the op I asked how one verse was taken from the context of "Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks..." but I was told they were related. That's all. The passage doesn't say that ceaseless pray causes you to rejoice and give thanks.

well, if ceaseless prayer you are in a constant dialogue with the God who is supranatural joy and happiness, it tends to follow that the rejoicing and giving of thanks would go with that, since the joy He gives is the joy He is.

JM said:
One could use this argumentation to claim giving thanks leads you to ceaseless prayer and rejoicing or rejoicing leads you to creaseless prayer.

indeed, we would not debate this. giving thanks to God always can lead to ceaseless prayer. realizing that God has shown you mercy and saved you is cause for rejoicing.

JM said:
Doesn't it make more sense to say they are all three elements are admonishments? Especially considering Philippians 4:6, Colossians 4:2 and Ephesians 6:18 where we find further instruction and meaning on prayer?

who says they are also not admonishments? they very well can be.

JM said:
Paul strikes me as a fella who talked nonstop about Jesus not someone bent over in prayer all day.

that's because you have a modern understanding of prayer. for us, Paul would be both. he talked about Jesus nonstop because he was in prayer all day.

JM · Sep 26, 2016

Ok, fair enough.

Thanks folks

~Anastasia~ · Sep 27, 2016

ArmyMatt said:
that's because you have a modern understanding of prayer. for us, Paul would be both. he talked about Jesus nonstop because he was in prayer all day.

JM said:
Ok, fair enough.

I am just thinking - it might help to consider that such prayer can continue even in one's sleep. It is the heart praying, not the mind. So it is possible to be otherwise occupied and still pray at the same time. In fact, by definition that is a must for "ceaseless prayer" else one would never do anything else ever again if one followed the admonition to "pray without ceasing".

And certainly, as Matt says, one of the main results of such constant communion with God is joy. Thankfulness (and I would say humility) would naturally flow from that as well.

ArmyMatt · Sep 27, 2016

one of the things Elder Joseph the hesychast would do was to use his prayer rope when he slept.

Pray without ceasing.

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