New Roman Catholic Martyr?

Lord have mercy.

memory eternal!

In blessed repose, grant, O Lord, eternal rest to Your servant the Priest Jacques, and may his memory be eternal.

Lord have mercy.

Memory eternal.

Memory Eternal

Let me guess he was martyr'd by those rascal amish

Let's face it everyone, we know who did it, and pray for Europe that place is a ticking time, if more Muslim attacks take place, European politicians might allow it but average folks had enough.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

Memory Eternal

Let me guess he was martyr'd by those rascal amish

Let's face it everyone, we know who did it, and pray for Europe that place is a ticking time, if more Muslim attacks take place, European politicians might allow it but average folks had enough.

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Yeah, they've already said the killers said they were soldiers of ISIS and ISIS took credit for the attack. He was beheaded and they filmed it. Savages.

Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord,
and let perpetual light shine upon them.
May the souls of the faithful departed,
through the mercy of God, rest in peace.

Amen.

Lord have mercy.

Lord have mercy

Mikhael Reborn said:

Yeah, they've already said the killers said they were soldiers of ISIS and ISIS took credit for the attack. He was beheaded and they filmed it. Savages.

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You know I'll find the article, but I was reading today that ISIS plans on targeting the Pope, the Copts, and the Greek Orthodox Church (including the Patriarch of Jerusalem), they have a article in their magazine called "breaking the cross"

It seems the more ground they lose, the more more nutty, and brazen these savages become. It hard sometimes however, I feel most Orthodox online, and offline have bought into the whole "be nice, and most Muslims are peace loving like" propaganda you would hear on places like Salon or Huffington Post, with the exception of Serbs, and Russians because those folks seem to get it about Islam.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

with the exception of Serbs, and Russians because those folks seem to get it about Islam.

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Obligatory "remove kebab"

Orthodoxjay1 said:

It seems the more ground they lose, the more more nutty, and brazen these savages become. It hard sometimes however, I feel most Orthodox online, and offline have bought into the whole "be nice, and most Muslims are peace loving like" propaganda you would hear on places like Salon or Huffington Post, with the exception of Serbs, and Russians because those folks seem to get it about Islam.

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Maybe it's easy to forget if your church is not often producing martyrs these days at the hands of Muslims? I could see how if you're in the West in a jurisdiction which is full of converts like the Antiochians or OCA, you could have a lot of these "be nice; Muslims are our friends" types. Their experiences are all in America or Western Europe (so, quite unlike the native or recently-arrived immigrant Syrian), and if they traveled to Egypt or Palestine or wherever, it was as some type of tourist, so they wouldn't have gotten the same treatment as the native Christians even if they were outwardly Christian (since Muslims expect every westerner to be a Christian by default).

But I imagine that as a result of more recent history (the Nord-Ost attack, Beslan, the problems in Kosovo and Bosnia, etc.), the Russians and the Serbs aren't so able or willing to look at Islam and violence from its practitioners in such a remote and detached way as others. When it's still happening to you today, you can't dismiss it as 'Islamophobic' propaganda or whatever; it's just what's actually happening. That's probably why this story touched a nerve with so many Western people: For the first time in modern history, the Western church is now producing its own martyrs on its own soil (cf. the other modern RC martyrs at the hands of Muslims -- people like seven monks of the Atlas Abbey of Tibhirine in Algeria in 1996, or Sr. Leonella Sgorbati, the nun who was murdered in Somalia in 2006; these were foreigners/westerners living in Muslim-dominated lands, whereas this priest was a French man living on French soil where the Islamists are the foreigners).

Probably as ISIS and other groups and individuals ramp up their Islamic jihad against the rest of the world for the terrible crime of existing, more and more of this will happen, and maybe eventually the whole of Eastern and the largest part of Western Christianity will be more like the Russians and Serbs (and Copts, and Syriacs, and the Ethiopians, etc.; which is to say, the people who actually live through this stuff regularly), and less like new-agey hippies in the comments section of a Huffington Post article.

dzheremi said:

Maybe it's easy to forget if your church is not often producing martyrs these days at the hands of Muslims? I could see how if you're in the West in a jurisdiction which is full of converts like the Antiochians or OCA, you could have a lot of these "be nice; Muslims are our friends" types. Their experiences are all in America or Western Europe (so, quite unlike the native or recently-arrived immigrant Syrian), and if they traveled to Egypt or Palestine or wherever, it was as some type of tourist, so they wouldn't have gotten the same treatment as the native Christians even if they were outwardly Christian (since Muslims expect every westerner to be a Christian by default).

But I imagine that as a result of more recent history (the Nord-Ost attack, Beslan, the problems in Kosovo and Bosnia, etc.), the Russians and the Serbs aren't so able or willing to look at Islam and violence from its practitioners in such a remote and detached way as others. When it's still happening to you today, you can't dismiss it as 'Islamophobic' propaganda or whatever; it's just what's actually happening. That's probably why this story touched a nerve with so many Western people: For the first time in modern history, the Western church is now producing its own martyrs on its own soil (cf. the other modern RC martyrs at the hands of Muslims -- people like seven monks of the Atlas Abbey of Tibhirine in Algeria in 1996, or Sr. Leonella Sgorbati, the nun who was murdered in Somalia in 2006; these were foreigners/westerners living in Muslim-dominated lands, whereas this priest was a French man living on French soil where the Islamists are the foreigners).

Probably as ISIS and other groups and individuals ramp up their Islamic jihad against the rest of the world for the terrible crime of existing, more and more of this will happen, and maybe eventually the whole of Eastern and the largest part of Western Christianity will be more like the Russians and Serbs (and Copts, and Syriacs, and the Ethiopians, etc.; which is to say, the people who actually live through this stuff regularly), and less like new-agey hippies in the comments section of a Huffington Post article.

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I forgot to mention the Ethiopians, Syriacs, and Copts, those folks seem to get it too. A Syriac Orthodox priest a while back outright said Islam is of the Devil, and won't change, as it been like this for 1,400 years.

I am actually in a GOARCH church, not the OCA or the Antiochians. It just frustrating that Greeks out of all people, who lived as Dhimmis under Sharia don't want to acknowledge that yes this is Orthodox Islam causing this mess, and not some " social injustice" or "Capitalist imperalism". From my little contact with Copts, while they pray for their enemies and don't hate them, at least they understand the danger of Islam, kudos to you guys, if you need a home in the coming persecution, I will do my best to help you all out.

Hmm. Don't the Greeks remember the victims of the Pontic genocide and the Greco-Turkish war? That war ended in 1922 -- not even a century ago. That's weird that their attitudes would be so different now. In my community, we still have people who become seriously upset when talking about the Muslim invasion of Amr Ibn Al 'As in the 640s.

And, yeah, the Coptic people are very stringent in their approach to Islam in particular, though not without at least some nuance. I have personally witnessed fights among people in my church because one guy was mad that the other guy wouldn't tell his daughter (who was maybe 10 or 11 years old; not even close to an adult) that Muslims worship the Devil. "Why do you hide the truth from your daughter?! So that she can marry a Muslim?!" It was ugly. And when he appealed to our priest for backup by asking him directly "Abouna, isn't it true that they worship the Devil?", Father replied "Yes, of course it's true, but it is also important that you do not become a devil too" (read: you can be right and still be a jerk, so stop haranguing everyone about something nobody's actually disagreeing with). That shut him up without having to say anything but the truth about Islam, and that kind of careful but consistent message is something that I've found to be pretty characteristic of the Coptic approach to this subject (probably because most Copts still live in Egypt, so everything that is said even in the diaspora is in some sense calculated so as to not cause unnecessary trouble for people's families, friends, and communities back home). Maybe some of the Greeks are thinking similarly (not wanting to rock the boat for their coreligionists in Turkey, Syria, Palestine, etc.), but without being adept in how they address this question.

I am sympathetic to their inability to express or face up to the truth, given the different climate over here. After all, the West is not Russia or Serbia. Merely pointing out what the Russians and Serbs have been through at the hands of Muslims recently would probably be enough to get you labeled as Islamophobic in the West (with all the PC consequences that could follow: potential loss of job, boycott of public speaking, etc.), but I imagine that if you tried to call someone that in Russia, they'd laugh in your face/throw you out on your behind. Rightfully so, too. Again, these are just the things that happen(ed). Reality has an Islamophobic bent, you could say.

I would just point out the Antiochians have had their martyrs

It seems to my experience that the horrible attacks of recent years have been very much in people's consciousness. But maybe that's not universal. I have to tell my husband about it. He had no idea. (He's more evangelical.)

And the Greeks in my parish remember the terrible things that happened in the last century. They are pretty aware of what went on for centuries before. I am still reading a book one dear lady lent me and asked me to read about Greek martyrs under the Turkish yoke.

We aren't getting ready to lynch random Muslims by any means, but I don't think they will ever forget in this lifetime. And while some or even most of them probably can accept individuals, I suspect there will always be some degree of mistrust.

I don't know about other Greek parishes. But I've heard enough here and there to realize that in our parish, they are certainly aware of it.

ArmyMatt said:

I would just point out the Antiochians have had their martyrs

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Of course. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I only wondered if perhaps for the people that Orthodoxjay1 was referring to there could be some explanation as to why certain jurisdictions may have a different attitude than others. I would imagine that for most converts of a Western Christian background (of which I know the Antiochians and OCA have many; that's the only reason I mentioned the Antiochians in particular), their actual lived experience with Islam and Muslims is probably not analogous to the possible range of experiences lived by their Antiochian or other coreligionists actually living in or recently arrived from the Middle East. That would make sense, right? I mean, I hear of all kinds of horrible things that happened to my friends, or are still happening to their families back in Egypt (female cousins being kidnapped and forced to marry Muslims, for instance), and I can't say that's been my experience with Muslims. I have (secular and ex) Muslim friends and none of them ever tried to kidnap my cousins. So there is a degree of remoteness that will always be there because I'm a westerner, and will always be a westerner. Probably if I hadn't spent as long a time as I have among Egyptians, I wouldn't understand their views on Islam, and might even consider them 'Islamophobic', or rooted in sectarian sour grapes, or any of the other things that a lot of Christians and non-Christians assume are going on when Christians from the MENA region talk about the things that happen in their homelands. It's part of the coping mechanism of the average, naive, thinks-everyone-can-and-wants-to-get-along westerner. Many people, regardless of their religious affiliation, really don't want to believe that there are people who are so filled with hate towards others that they will kill them simply for belonging to a different religion. Of course many, many Christians know better (including converts in all jurisdictions, I'm sure), but there's such a powerful social pull in modern secular societies such as ours to affirm the "Coexist" bumper sticker omnitheology of the world that I'm not surprised when I read that even a lot of Orthodox people are saying false things about other religious ways of life that seek to exterminate or enslave Christians. I have no choice but to believe that they're sincere, and their false belief certainly does not diminish the reality of the martyrs of the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Lord have mercy.