Where did Whales come from?

As I understand it, the first whales came from God, and since they were created as water creatures, any that followed came from water creatures.

Aman777 said:

Did Whales come from land creatures or did they come from water creatures?

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From what I've read on the subject, modern day whales evolved from a terrestrial animal around 50 million years ago.

Yes and modern man evolved from bafoons (a stranger still land creature thought to have evolved from apes)!

Pro and Pseudo Darwinian Evolutionists use two erroneous methods to deceive people into believing their hypothesis based "interpretations" of the data (where the already concluded hypothesis drives data interpretation rather than letting the data stand on its own merit)

The first is the erroneous conclusionism that IF two or more things have similar features or even two or more anatomical similarities THEN that equals they are related in the sense of lineage (then they place them in order using artistically contrived images to imprint generations of inquiring minds).

The second stems from the logic fallacy that because one thing existed prior to another this must mean that one came from the other. This error of first causes can be found in many varieties. In Western Christianity for example, because of a preconceived Theological perspective (dogmatically accepted and thus used to interpret all we see), it is often assumed that all the stealing, drunkedness, sexuality immorality, and so on, are the cause of humanities downfall when in fact these are all just symptoms of the actual one cause...self lordship (the desire to be a god unto ones self deciding good and evil as seems fit in one's own eyes)....the point being that just because one thing existed before another does not necessitate it came from the other.

Then they insist on two additional fallacies (that they know the masses would fall for) to support their questionable conclusions (though questioning their hypothesis based conclusions is not allowed and discredited or selectively excluded).

The first of these is an intelligently designed criteria based on the appeal to authority fallacy. It insists that if someone of authority says it then it will be accepted as true. When someone who has authority questions them then it changes to only someone in their camp (such as happens when say a chemist shows the doubt-ability of one of their fairy tales and fairy tales I do not mean the actual science but the "meaning" given by some scientists). For example, Ernst Mayr, (What Makes Biology Unique?, p. 198, Cambridge University Press, 2004) revealed to us that “The earliest fossils of Homo… are separated from Australopithecus by a large, unbridged gap. How can we explain this seeming saltation? Not having any fossils that can serve as missing links, we have to fall back on the time-honored method of historical science, the construction of a historical narrative.” And then in regards to this first fallacy eventually they make it about time and only the most modern opinion is allowed and then if you persist on demonstrating their lack of logic they resort to shrinking the criteria box further insisting only if the idea is published in a scientific journal and then of course the only one's they will accept are from those journals that represent their point of view.

The second is a form of Argumentum ad Populum where by you hear things like "Well most scholars agree that..." or majority of scientists believe the latest research (which is always an interpretation or narrative regarding the data) says..." or some other such nonsense that actually proves nothing. In any other area if the ad Populum argument were relied on so heavily, so insistently, women would still be chattel and slavery still commonplace.

Oh yes I forgot one which is in line with the added hypothesis driven "historical narrative" and that is the error of assumption based conclusions or the fallacy of imaginative casuality where by if one does not have actual evidence to demonstrate the "opinion" a made up missing piece to explain the gap away is assumed and considered to be obvious (when it is not at all obvious to others).

Now because all the examples that could be given would take a small book, if one wishes to contend over one of these observations at a time I will gladly participate.

But note two things. There is a difference between "science" and what "scientists" say the data discovered by science (a method) uncovers. The data is what is there and the explanation is intelligently designed.

Aman777 said:

Amen, and that is the reason for this thread. God correctly told us 3k years ago, in Gen 1:21 that Whales came from WATER. In fact, EVERY living creature had it's origin in the Water, except Humans, as this verse states:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after Their kind, and every winged fowl after His kind: and God saw that it was good.

This verse could ONLY have been Authored by God since NO ancient man who lived thousands of years BEFORE Science could have possibly known this scientific fact. Darwinists teach that whales evolved from land dwelling ungulates but they IGNORE the above verse since it shows WHERE land dwelling ungulates had their origin. It was in the WATER.

Land dwelling whales changed within THEIR kinds, or the kinds made by God the Trinity, into Sea dwelling kinds. God's Truth is the Truth in every way and Gen 1:21 is empirical EVIDENCE that God, the Holy Spirit, IS the Author of Scripture. Amen?

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I find your posting style to be very dishonest and formally request that you stop.

For those looking for the truth rather than deception I will present the entire verse....the portion Aman777 left out.

20And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birdsg fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.

Yes God did make the waters swarm with animals....but, Aman777 made this false statement..."In fact, EVERY living creature had it's origin in the Water, except Humans, as this verse states:" Then Aman777 only presented a partial verse and applied it to all animals.

Now we come to day 6. The verse Aman777 left out which shows the rest of the animals being created from the earth..
24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Later in day 6 we read where God made man.

26Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

Aman777...it is the bible that refutes you.

Aman777 said:

Sorry, but I must deny your formal request which includes a false accusation against me. I've told you before that I use the KJV since it is less altered and paraphrased that your version. I also posted Gen 1:21 from the KJV which obviously prompted your disagreement. Here it is again:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after Their kind, and every winged fowl after His kind: and God saw that it was good.

As everyone can now see, it's not me being dishonest as you posted.

*** Yes God did make the waters swarm with animals....but, Aman777 made this false statement..."In fact, EVERY living creature had it's origin in the Water, except Humans, as this verse states:" Then Aman777 only presented a partial verse and applied it to all animals.

What I posted is what the verse actually says in the KJV of the Bible. I am sorry if you disagree but I also showed you from Gen 2:4-7 KJV that Adam was made from the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day BEFORE the plants, herbs and rain, but your version doesn't agree with what is actually written, and it does NOT agree with your religious view that Adam was made AFTER the other creatures from the earth.

*** Now we come to day 6. The verse Aman777 left out which shows the rest of the animals being created from the earth..
24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

As I have repeatedly shown you, the FIRST 34 verses of Genesis is a broad outline of ALL of the rest of Scripture. The DETAILS of the verses you posted are shown in Genesis 2, which shows that your version of Scripture does NOT agree with this outline. I will highlight the differences in the KJV version which has you confused:

Gen 1:24 ¶ And God [Elohim] said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after HIS kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after HIS kind: and it was so. Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after HIS kind, and cattle after THEIR kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after HIS kind: and God saw that it was good.

Your version incorrectly attributes the living creatures made from the earth to Their kinds (Trinity kinds) when it was His kinds (Jesus kinds). Then it shows that the creeping things were made after ITS kinds when they are actually HIS kinds or Jesus kinds, according to:

Gen 6:20 Of fowls after THEIR kind, and of cattle after THEIR kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after HIS kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Remember that God showed in Gen 1:21 that He made EVERY living creature that moveth from the WATER, the 5th Day. This includes HIS kinds, or Jesus kinds, which were made from the earth on the NEXT Day. Since God sees the end from the beginning, Isa 46:10 He made THEIR kinds from the water on the 5th Day ACCORDING to the kinds Jesus made from the earth the next Day, on Day 6.

*** Later in day 6 we read where God made man.

26Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

Aman777...it is the bible that refutes you.

False, since God said this on the 5th Day BEFORE Jesus made the beasts of the field and birds, which Adam named Gen 2:19 AND ***BEFORE EVE*** was made. Gen 2:22 You also failed to notice that God the Trinity was speaking to God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, since He was speaking to "US" about making man in "OUR" Image, which is in Christ Spiritually, since Jesus IS the ONLY Image of the invisible God, according to Colossians 1:15

This reveals that Adam was NOT created Spiritually when he was "formed" from the dust on the 3rd Day and Eve was NOT created Spiritually when she was made from Adam's rib on the 6th Day since BOTH were "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually, at the SAME time, AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2

This is because, like ALL of mankind, they were first made physically by the Lord God/Jesus and it takes the AGREEMENT of the Trinity to "create" them Spiritually and Eternally according to Gen 1:26 and Gen 5:1-2. i'm sorry that your version has confused you and I would suggest you find a KJV and STUDY the original Hebrew words, in order to avoid this problem in the Future. God Bless you

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You can keep posting your broken theology all you want to..but there is only one person who believes it...You. Ever wonder why?

Acceptance of the Genesis references to animals isn't a rejection of irrefutable scientific discoveries.

Aman777 said:

Amen, but it adds to what Science has learned since scientists do NOT know where or when "every living creature" came from. They KNOW that the cells within living creatures cannot survive without liquid water so the look at Comets, black smokers, or anything which could explain the true origin of life. God told us in Gen 1:20-21 of the origin of every living creature which He CREATED and brought forth from water on the 5th Day. NO ancient man could have possibly known and correctly written this since they lived thousands of years before Science. It's proof of the Literal God. Amen?

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The sad part about that abiogenesis belief is that the alleged phenomenon has never been observed to happen in nature nor can it be forced to occur even under controlled laboratory conditions. Yet, when documentaries concerning the probability of life in our solar system and other parts of the the universe are meticulously estimated, they always include repeated references to the absolute NEED for water in order for life to spontaneously arise.

Aman777 said:

Amen, which is why I call abiogenesis, Magical chemical generation.

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Another sad aspect of the idea is that kids are brainwashed into uncritical acceptance of it as if it were inevitable undeniable fact and opposing viewpoints are not permitted. Such children grow up with the misguided idea that any other explanation is sheer superstitious by default and that those who propose any other explanations are to be considered ant- scientific morons.

What makes this brainwashing feasible and extremely effective is the official negligence which our public schools display toward's teaching kids how to reason cogently. Of course if they are taught cogent reasoning then those bombastic
abiogenesis declarations would be critically evaluated and examined in the light of reason and evidence would be demanded in order to substantiate those claims. So keeping kids unable to reason cogently serves that anti creation purpose and the vehement opposition to kids learning logic can be understood in that context.

If Socrates and Plato were told that our present educational system strives to produce mentally well-balanced, responsible citizens without teaching them how to think, those two philosophers would consider the statement nonsensical and those making the statement as either certifiably insane, profoundly undereducated, mentally handicapped or all three..

Aman777 said:

Amen, but today's so called scientists will call you names and imply that your are crazy unless you blindly accept their unsupportable views. Jesus tells us of a special punishment for offending little ones who believe in Him. Evolution teachers should read the words of Jesus instead of forcing the unsupported views of the false Theory of Evolution on our children.
Mar 9:42

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Those scientists are the product of our biased educational system.

Whales, were historically land dwelling animals. Many people have difficulty distinguishing them from fish. Their morphological differences come from the differences in their evolutionary history, and the difference in how they came to be sea dwelling.