What Covenant Do You Have With God?

Everyone is in a covenant with God, it's either the covenant of grace or the covenant of works. If you are in the covenant of grace then Christ fulfilled the covenant of works on your behalf.

Edit: obviously the OP is long gone but this is my answer anyway.

theFijian said:

Everyone is in a covenant with God, it's either the covenant of grace or the covenant of works. If you are in the covenant of grace then Christ fulfilled the covenant of works on your behalf.

Edit: obviously the OP is long gone but this is my answer anyway.

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There is no such thing as a covenant of works. It is a fond Protestant invention made up by John Calvin and the Protestants. Your answer shows a dreadful lack of understanding of covenant and how it works.

1. A covenant is a relationship. The Bible analogizes it as marriage (Ezek. 16:8). No one can make a marriage for another. No one can be both bride and groom in the wedding ceremony. Each party must make covenant vows of marriage to the other. This analogy alone shows that it is impossible that Christ fulfills the covenant for us.

2. So what covenant did Christ fulfill that no other man could have fulfilled? He fulfilled the broken covenant between mankind and God, that covenant which Adam destroyed by his disobedience. That covenant is found in the Yom Kippur covenant of Lev. 16, which could only be renewed once a year by the high priest. The high priest did that for God's corporate people. But that did not mean that each individual ever born was removed from having to be circumcised (make covenant with God). Each individual had to make covenant with the congregation of God. That brought him into a personal relationship with God through the congregation, which in turn was kept in covenant with God by the action of the high priest.

3. Christ is now our Great High Priest. This means that He does the actions of the office of high priest. Hebrews 7-10 shows Him making Yom Kippur in the "tabernacle not made with hands" in the heavenlies. For whom? For individuals? No, that is not possible, because Yom Kippur is made for the congregation. It is a corporate sacrifice, not an individual sacrifice for individual sins. It is the Yom Kippur of Christ which redeems mankind, establishes the New Covenant, and pays for the sins of the New Covenant Church, the Ekklesia of God.

4. Furthermore, every covenant is made with oaths/sanctions. That is one of the five principles of covenant. Vows of fidelity are made and the Great Judgment will be one of sorting the covenant keepers from the covenant breakers. Therefore, Christ cannot do this for us. As in # 1, each man and woman must "cut covenant" with Christ through baptism and enter into the Body of Christ, the Church, to have a covenant relationship with God through Christ.

The ideas you presented are completely anti-covenantal and violate the principles of covenant as found in Scripture.

The scriptures relate that the body is to be presented as a living sacrifice. There is a way to circumcise the heart. But what gets in the way? It is own self belief that uses a separated will to achieve its purpose. The weakness of being self willed is stray thoughts with prompting and temptations that show up in behavior including speech and how each person treats and talks to another. Bring every thought into the obedience and captivity of Christ. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
An act of faith is to follow Jesus and this is a work to be totally changed in the mind and the energy that proceeds out of the mouth. Jesus said His words are Spirit and the Spirit gives Life. God is a life giving Spirit and it is necessary to follow Jesus and show the same ability of believing in God because this glorifies God and not self belief.

AllanV said:

The scriptures relate that the body is to be presented as a living sacrifice. There is a way to circumcise the heart. But what gets in the way? It is own self belief that uses a separated will to achieve its purpose. The weakness of being self willed is stray thoughts with prompting and temptations that show up in behavior including speech and how each person treats and talks to another. Bring every thought into the obedience and captivity of Christ. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
An act of faith is to follow Jesus and this is a work to be totally changed in the mind and the energy that proceeds out of the mouth. Jesus said His words are Spirit and the Spirit gives Life. God is a life giving Spirit and it is necessary to follow Jesus and show the same ability of believing in God because this glorifies God and not self belief.

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Does all this rambling have a point? When you debate someone online or in person, you should have a point that you are trying to make. All you did was throw around a bunch of extraneous words.

Would you like to try again?

Light of the East said:

Does all this rambling have a point? When you debate someone online or in person, you should have a point that you are trying to make. All you did was throw around a bunch of extraneous words.

Would you like to try again?

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It was a bit shorter than what you did although I agree with some of it but am uncertain if you are understanding what has been written. The point is most of what the Bible relates about the kingdom of God cannot be comprehended in the rebellious mind because it is hostile toward God. It will not be understood at all.
The whole answer unfolds as the individual proceeds forward day by day without looking back, until the mind is completely changed. The way in cannot be understood but it is revealed and it is supernatural because there are powers in place to obscure and hide it. The obstructions reside in the self willed person who believes in his own self and they are apparent in their personality and what they get up to when there is opportunity. After personal experience of being drawn by God and knowing Him the understanding of the word Christ relates to another mind and is more about consciousness. All humans and biology are in an influence of oxidizing and decay. The cells of the body oxidize and much like the resonance of an instrument string or an energized electric capacitor inductor circuit, there is decay. Humans do this when they speak from their own belief but the words Jesus spoke were Spirit and they give life. Any covenant would relate to how close and how intimate the individual or collectively the church were to the mind of Christ where their voices were able to bring life. God is an energizing Spirit and a life giving Spirit and this will tell who is in the Church of God. The religious entities called churches have resorted to story telling and a person could go to these places all their lives and not know what it is actually about. It is about escaping Satan's kingdom, this is breaking down a barrier in the human mind attached to self belief and empowered by a separated will and then entering the kingdom of God and the Love of His Son. It is very powerful and supernatural.

AllanV said:

It was a bit shorter than what you did although I agree with some of it but am uncertain if you are understanding what has been written. The point is most of what the Bible relates about the kingdom of God cannot be comprehended in the rebellious mind because it is hostile toward God. It will not be understood at all.
The whole answer unfolds as the individual proceeds forward day by day without looking back, until the mind is completely changed. The way in cannot be understood but it is revealed and it is supernatural because there are powers in place to obscure and hide it. The obstructions reside in the self willed person who believes in his own self and they are apparent in their personality and what they get up to when there is opportunity. After personal experience of being drawn by God and knowing Him the understanding of the word Christ relates to another mind and is more about consciousness. All humans and biology are in an influence of oxidizing and decay. The cells of the body oxidize and much like the resonance of an instrument string or an energized electric capacitor inductor circuit, there is decay. Humans do this when they speak from their own belief but the words Jesus spoke were Spirit and they give life. Any covenant would relate to how close and how intimate the individual or collectively the church were to the mind of Christ where their voices were able to bring life. God is an energizing Spirit and a life giving Spirit and this will tell who is in the Church of God. The religious entities called churches have resorted to story telling and a person could go to these places all their lives and not know what it is actually about. It is about escaping Satan's kingdom, this is breaking down a barrier in the human mind attached to self belief and empowered by a separated will and then entering the kingdom of God and the Love of His Son. It is very powerful and supernatural.

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The OP is titled "What Covenant Do You Have With God?"

What does any of what you just said have to do with cutting covenant, being in covenant, staying in covenant, or what the covenant is and how it works?

Light of the East said:

The OP is titled "What Covenant Do You Have With God?"

What does any of what you just said have to do with cutting covenant, being in covenant, staying in covenant, or what the covenant is and how it works?

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Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

During a 3 week fast all my natural thoughts were renounced or turned aside from. Prayer, speaking out revelation and scripture and listening to spiritual preachers filled the days. The mind changes and looses its sense of own reality that has been created from life experience and subconscious connections with the minds of rebellious people including own family. The personality is encumbered but there is a way beyond it that is a little deeper than the mind that is usually thought from. I was lead through this barrier and kept pushing forward not looking back. A lot happened but it ended where I could actually break inwardly deeply enough leaving the belief in my own self and the Divine Nature covered me and God filled me entirely. Instead of having a separate will The Fathers will and my will are then one and I believe in God not own self. The Love of the Son and the Eternal God filled me powerfully. I am then perfect and holy. Jesus has shown me the way into the Sanctuary and the Most Holy Place.

Light of the East said:

There is no such thing as a covenant of works. It is a fond Protestant invention made up by John Calvin and the Protestants....

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Stopped reading here, knowing that the rest of it couldn't be taken seriously

Has anyone considered that the covenant relationship with God is an open covenant; a conditional one?

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, . . . . . . " Colossians 1:23 (KJV)

theFijian said:

Stopped reading here, knowing that the rest of it couldn't be taken seriously

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Well, being that you are a Calvinist, you are in darkness anyway, so I'm not surprised that you would find the truth offensive.

AllanV said:

Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

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Love these verses. Thank you so much.
And may God bless you greatly today.

mrs94 said:

? I'm surprised that some would say they have no covenant. If you are a believer in Yeshua, you are Abraham's Seed and hence a part of the covenant Adonai made with him.

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msortwell said:

What Covenant Do You Have With God?

Well, let's see.

Genesis 17:1-8
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." . . . And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. NKJV

Galatians 3:29
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. NKJV

It seems to me that John Calvin was correct when he said, “The covenant made with Abraham is no less in force today for Christians than it was of old for Jewish people.”

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14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Light of the East said:

There is no such thing as a covenant of works. It is a fond Protestant invention made up by John Calvin and the Protestants. Your answer shows a dreadful lack of understanding of covenant and how it works.

1. . . . it is impossible that Christ fulfills the covenant for us.

2. . . . He fulfilled the broken covenant between mankind and God, that covenant which Adam destroyed by his disobedience.

. . . The ideas you presented are completely anti-covenantal and violate the principles of covenant as found in Scripture.

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The apparent conflict between what you stated in items 1 and 2 above would seem to warrant some explanation.

msortwell said:

The apparent conflict between what you stated in items 1 and 2 above would seem to warrant some explanation.

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The covenant which Christ fulfills for mankind is the broken covenant between Adam and God. By breaking this covenant relationship, Adam separated all mankind from the Father. Christ, as the Last Adam (1 Corin 15:45), picked up right where Adam left off -- being tempted by the devil in the wilderness just as Adam was tempted in the Garden. Adam's disobedience turned the Garden into a wilderness for mankind. Christ's obedience turned the wilderness into a Garden.

Our covenant is a different covenant than that one. That first one is the corporate covenant between mankind and God. Christ alone restores that one and man has nothing to do with its restoration.

As individuals, we make covenant with Christ Jesus as our divine Spouse. As such, we are united to Him, and being united to Him, we become adopted children of God, heirs of salvation, and part of the congregation of God.

The Protestant idea is that Christ did all that needs to be done to "keep covenant" with Him, so that all we have to do is to believe. This is not so. In a covenant relationship, no man or woman can keep covenant as a substitute for another. Both sides of the covenant relationship must keep their covenant vows to the other.

Protestants are fond of saying "Jesus did it all." Yes, for the corporate covenant, He indeed did it all. But for the individual covenant I make with Him to enter into relationship with God through Him, I do my part and keep the promises that I made to be faithful to Him and reject the evil one.

I'm sorry I didn't make the issue of the two covenants in scripture to be more clear, causing confusion. The idea that Jesus keeps covenant for me leads to the false notion of "once saved - always saved." In fact, in a covenant relationship, like all relationships, one can walk away from the relationship and sever it.

Hope that helps. Please write again if I have left you still confused.

The reality is that Christ has and does keep covenant for you and I when you understand the nature of the Salvation that he brought to us. Look at the story of Mary And Martha, Mary sat at Jesus feet while Martha, lacking understanding of who Christ was ran around working and complaining about Mary doing nothing. Christ rebuked her when he said that Mary had chosen the better. What was that better, to cease from her/our works and rest in the finished work of Christ when he rose from the dead. Everything that was ever needed had been done and when you realize this fact, you enter into his rest, his grace and mercy, and rest in him. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IS THE CRY OF THOSE LACKING UNDERSTANDING. Fact of the matter is you are doing something that you cannot do in the flesh. That is to yield yourself totally to Christ in the spirit by FAITH. Trusting that there is nothing else that you can do in the flesh that will gain you anything more than what he has done. By Faith you enter into his rest, just as Christ did for all on the cross by His FAITH in GOD. When you live by Faith, your salvation is complete. HE said to neither add to not take away, this meant all that he has done, not just the words in the bible. When you attempt works of the flesh, you put your salvation in jeopardy because you don't understand the nature of his. He did it all but you must believe this. That is the only work which God recognizes. Your Faith in the finished work on the cross of Jesus Christ on his behalf for our sakes.

hismessenger

You must worship in spirit and truth. not dead works of the flesh for the flesh is dead already. You can only worship in spirit by Faith. That is our work, to use our faith that He did it all.

hismessenger

mrs94 said:

? I'm surprised that some would say they have no covenant. If you are a believer in Yeshua, you are Abraham's Seed and hence a part of the covenant Adonai made with him.

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Really? How about being "of" Abraham's seed instead? I was grafted onto a Jewish tree as a gentile. I'm now a grafted.... gentile, saved by grace. I'm not suddenly Jewish if that is what you are implying. Are you? Hope not. I'm pretty sick and tired of people insisting they are now Jewish just because they are saved.

The covenant I have is with Jesus Christ, as Savior and Lord. He is. He honored that covenant with His blood once and for all. I honored that covenant with accepting it once and for all. Done.

theFijian said:

Everyone is in a covenant with God, it's either the covenant of grace or the covenant of works. If you are in the covenant of grace then Christ fulfilled the covenant of works on your behalf.

Edit: obviously the OP is long gone but this is my answer anyway.

Click to expand...

For Christians it is the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and fulfilled by Christ. He spoke of it at the Last Supper, Matthew 26:28 and fulfilled it at Calvary, John 19:30.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


(Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.)


Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

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TheWiseMan said:

Please, if you have a covenant with God. Tell me what God has to do to honor it and what you have to do to honor it.

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I am part of the Covenant of Grace under the mediator Jesus Christ. God has promised eternal life so he must save me from death, sin, and satan and bring me unharmed into the new heavens and new earth via resurrection and conform me to the image of Christ. I must have faith in Jesus Christ and pledge my loyalty to him.

Well, circumcision was a ”seal” (covenant) for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

For what are the conditions of receiving the Holy Spirit?
The Bible says the Spirit is given to those who obey Him and or who keep His Commandments.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus.

Hebrews 3:6-19
3 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ,if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:1-11
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preachedentered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 6:11-12
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


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