Prosperity > is our emphasis scriptural?

de1929 · Feb 13, 2016

hhodgson said:
You did read my post #150, right? It's all about (Romans 12:2) renewing your mind(set) with the Word of God. Also you said here in Post 146...

Your quote here, you have it right, (de)! View attachment 169786 There is only (1) gospel, the Gospel of Christ... which is Grace personified. Read your own quote here over and over, for "faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

View attachment 169785

it's nothing to do about renewing mindset Harry, it's a matter of choosing words.

wof believes GOD's wants us to prosper, as a price for our belief, other christian call us prosperity gospel. surely you never been traditional christian do you ? that's why you can't comprehend their thinking.

We are prosperity gospel because of wof forum sof. look at how many prosperity value there.

hhodgson · Feb 13, 2016

de1929 said:
Harry, are you born as wof ? or do you have experience like me ? presbyterian -> pentecostal -> wof ?

Actually, I was born as a tadpole and later turned into a "toad" and when I got born-again, I turned into a Prince. Just kidding, you know that, right? He-he!

We can have a little fun can't we?

Did you notice the scissors carrying smiley in my earlier post #156. I'll ask again, are you ready to be sheared?

I'm not quite sure what your asking for but, I actually started out in a very small -> "Pilgrim Holiness Church" (just a shade above Amish), then to -> First Assembly of God, then to -> Word-of-faith (3yrs ago).

de1929 · Feb 13, 2016

hhodgson said:
Actually, I was born as a tadpole and later turned into a "toad" and when I got born-again, I turned into a Prince. Just kidding, you know that, right? He-he! View attachment 169787 We can have a little fun can't we?

Did you notice the scissors carrying smiley in my earlier post #156. I'll ask again, are you ready to be sheared?

I'm not quite sure what your asking for but, I actually started out in a very small -> "Pilgrim Holiness Church" (just a shade above Amish), then to -> First Assembly of God, then to -> Word-of-faith (3yrs ago).

View attachment 169788

I use gillette razor harry... and nobody shear me except my own razor harry... lol...

I hope your background is enough to understand why other camp tell us prosperity gospel. Do you know why they didn't say prosperity quran ? because all still believe in bible. What i tried to say, it's irrelevant to call grace gospel because we are not discussing holy quran right ?

hhodgson · Feb 13, 2016

de1929 said:
We are discussing other issues: most of senior member here don't agree with word "prosperity gospel". it sounds greedy, lustful, money, etc. my advice to them is clear: do not think it is greedy, change your mindset, enjoy the word prosperity gospel, instead of pushing people not to use the word prosperity gospel.

Once again, you quoted this in Post 146...

de1929 said: ↑
No preacher wanna be called prosperity gospel. There is only 1 gospel, even traditional agree there is only 1 gospel. Gospel of Christ.

So, which is it (de)? You can't have it both ways.

de1929 · Feb 13, 2016

hhodgson said:
Once again, you quoted this in Post 146...

de1929 said: ↑
No preacher wanna be called prosperity gospel. There is only 1 gospel, even traditional agree there is only 1 gospel. Gospel of Christ.

So, which is it (de)? You can't have it both ways.

View attachment 169791

of course i can Harry :d i am de1929, not creflo dollar.

now faith · Feb 13, 2016

hhodgson said:
Why not? I am one of His sheep too! Are you ready to be sheared? View attachment 169783

John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

If you notice as you do a forum search, wherever you go... if the name word-of-faith comes up, the first thing you hear (in a very negative way) is, they teach a "prosperity gospel" (and we don't). However, you well know that we do teach prosperity in all forms... but it is not the gospel of Jesus Christ... which is the "good news" of His abundant Grace.

View attachment 169784

Just don't shear them till they bleed,or you will have sick and dieing Sheep

ABlessedAnomaly · Feb 13, 2016

de1929 said:
word of faith is prosperity gospel. i don't have to agree with your reasoning.

You have to agree with the rules of this forum. If you teach elements of the prosperity gospel I will have an easy time showing that you are not Word of Faith with our SOF. Are you truly that arrogant, de?

ABlessedAnomaly · Feb 13, 2016

de1929 said:
everybody agree with you: There is nothing that we receive outside His redemption, this includes prosperity in this life.

We are discussing other issues: most of senior member here don't agree with word "prosperity gospel". it sounds greedy, lustful, money, etc. my advice to them is clear: do not think it is greedy, change your mindset, enjoy the word prosperity gospel, instead of pushing people not to use the word prosperity gospel.

It doesn't just SOUND greedy, lustful, money, etc.

It IS those things.

If you persist in teaching greed and lust the SOF will show that you are not truly WoF. So what are you, de?

de1929 · Feb 13, 2016

ABlessedMan said:
It doesn't just SOUND greedy, lustful, money, etc.

It IS those things.

If you persist in teaching greed and lust the SOF will show that you are not truly WoF. So what are you, de?

ABlessedMan said:
You have to agree with the rules of this forum. If you teach elements of the prosperity gospel I will have an easy time showing that you are not Word of Faith with our SOF. Are you truly that arrogant, de?

still playing words these days ? when you gonna learn to be wof like me, the true prosperity gospel believer ?

Rule no 6: 6. We believe prosperity is always God's will for all believers

Gxg (G²) · Feb 13, 2016

ABlessedMan said:
Well, let's look at the whole context:

12 For if the eagerness is present, the gift itself is acceptable according to whatever one has, not according to what he does not have. 13 For I do not say this so there would be relief for others and suffering for you, but as a matter of equality. 14 At the present time, your abundance will meet their need, so that one day their abundance may also meet your need, and thus there may be equality, 15 as it is written: " The one who gathered much did not have too much , and the one who gathered little did not have too little ."
2 Cor 8:12-15 (NET)

If the type of equity that you speak of was in practice then verse 12 would not speak of those who have and those who have not. Verse 13 speaks of relief. Not to the point that that the ones who have need to give it all away, but rather that they take the burden and pain from the ones that do not have. Verse 14 shows abundance in one people and not in the other; it also shows that this abundance might shift and the shoe will be on the other foot. Note: verse 14 does not speak as if it will all equal out and such help will never be needed. It says that the ones with abundance should help those in need. This is a principle of the Gospel.

Our obligation in being prosperous is not to store up our wealth in the earth, but to store up our prosperity to share it with the ones who are less fortunate. This goes all the way back to Joseph, who ascending to be 2nd in command in Egypt stored away grain for the coming famine so that, in his prosperity at famine time he could share the wealth with those who were less fortunate (and it is interesting to note he didn't just give it away, but sold it!).

Amen

Joseph is a wonderful story that makes a world of difference with seeing how God uses others to bless others and help those in their struggles

ABlessedAnomaly · Feb 14, 2016

de1929 said:
still playing words these days ? when you gonna learn to be wof like me, the true prosperity gospel believer ?

Rule no 6: 6. We believe prosperity is always God's will for all believers

Why would I want to follow the prosperity gospel like you when that is not Word of Faith?

Here is what SoF #6 states (btw, they are not rules; they are beliefs):

6. We believe prosperity is always God's will for all believers; for the whole person, spirit, soul, and body. The Lord has pleasure in the prosperity of those who serve Him. (3 John 1:2, Psalm 35:27)

Where does that say "prosperity gospel?"

It doesn't.

Word of Faith believes in the blessing of God. Through the blessing we receive prosperity. The word in the Hebrew for prosperity is shalom. It means nothing broken, nothing missing. It does include all aspects of our well being.

The prosperity gospel is all about money. Give to get. Kenneth E. Hagin wrote:

A popular teaching in recent years has been that giving should be mechanically linked to getting. If you need something, give something. Sow a car to get a car. Sow a suit to receive a suit

This is another example of taking a basic truth and carrying it to the extreme. Like any other biblical truth, there is a ditch of error on both sides of the road.

There are some people who do not seem to realize that God wants to bless them. They have no understanding at all of the practical application of the law of sowing and reaping in their personal lives. As a result, giving for them is strictly a matter of duty. They may give, but they have no faith or expectation whatsoever about receiving anything from God. This is unfortunate because they undoubtedly miss out on some of the blessings that God has for them.

On the other side of the road are the greedy folks who are attempting to use their giving to manipulate God. They try to make the offering plate some kind of heavenly vending machine -- put in you offering, pull the handle, and get your blessing back! This is certainly the wrong motive for giving.

Some people go so far with this kind of thinking that they get into foolishness, giving away their car in the hope of getting another, presumably better, car. These people sometimes end up walking for a long time!

These words from the father of the Word of Faith movement are very important to distinguish the Word of Faith from the prosperity gospel.

And we certainly do not use money to "trick" or "lure" people (as you said a few posts back) into coming to Christ. That doesn't work. We don't use lies and deceit to try to get them.

Jesus didn't tell us to go into the highways and hedges and deceive people. No, He said go out into the highways and hedges and compel them with the Gospel message.

In other words with Truth. Only the prosperity gospel uses "tricks."

de1929 · Feb 14, 2016

ABlessedMan said:
Why would I want to follow the prosperity gospel like you when that is not Word of Faith?

Here is what SoF #6 states (btw, they are not rules; they are beliefs):

6. We believe prosperity is always God's will for all believers; for the whole person, spirit, soul, and body. The Lord has pleasure in the prosperity of those who serve Him. (3 John 1:2, Psalm 35:27)

Where does that say "prosperity gospel?"

It doesn't.

Word of Faith believes in the blessing of God. Through the blessing we receive prosperity. The word in the Hebrew for prosperity is shalom. It means nothing broken, nothing missing. It does include all aspects of our well being.

The prosperity gospel is all about money. Give to get. Kenneth E. Hagin wrote:

A popular teaching in recent years has been that giving should be mechanically linked to getting. If you need something, give something. Sow a car to get a car. Sow a suit to receive a suit

This is another example of taking a basic truth and carrying it to the extreme. Like any other biblical truth, there is a ditch of error on both sides of the road.

There are some people who do not seem to realize that God wants to bless them. They have no understanding at all of the practical application of the law of sowing and reaping in their personal lives. As a result, giving for them is strictly a matter of duty. They may give, but they have no faith or expectation whatsoever about receiving anything from God. This is unfortunate because they undoubtedly miss out on some of the blessings that God has for them.

On the other side of the road are the greedy folks who are attempting to use their giving to manipulate God. They try to make the offering plate some kind of heavenly vending machine -- put in you offering, pull the handle, and get your blessing back! This is certainly the wrong motive for giving.

Some people go so far with this kind of thinking that they get into foolishness, giving away their car in the hope of getting another, presumably better, car. These people sometimes end up walking for a long time!

These words from the father of the Word of Faith movement are very important to distinguish the Word of Faith from the prosperity gospel.

And we certainly do not use money to "trick" or "lure" people (as you said a few posts back) into coming to Christ. That doesn't work. We don't use lies and deceit to try to get them.

Jesus didn't tell us to go into the highways and hedges and deceive people. No, He said go out into the highways and hedges and compel them with the Gospel message.

In other words with Truth. Only the prosperity gospel uses "tricks."

what's wrong with the "tricks" ?

ABlessedAnomaly · Feb 14, 2016

de1929 said:
what's wrong with the "tricks" ?

Tricks are deception. A tool of Satan.
Tricks are lies. A tool of Satan.

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Tim 4:1-2 (KJV)

God is clear. Liars have left (or have never had) the faith. Those who do not have the faith are seduced by demonic spirits, eliciting doctrines of devils, speaking lies, speaking in hypocrisy, becoming liars. And even through the Spirit of God would sear their conscious as if with a hot iron, they can not feel it or understand the depth of the error of using things that are not holy to try to convince others of things, whether those things seem to be of God, like the sons of Sceva in Acts 19, or whether it be more insidious and actually be a move of the devil.

If you feel compelled to use "tricks" you should repent and move back into the righteousness of Christ. Tricks, lies, deception and error are never tools that God has told us to use.

SavedByGrace3 · Feb 14, 2016

Most often people use terms like "prosperity gospel" as a derogatory term intending to criticism and malign.
If people are using that term in this thread in that context, they should not be here. This is a safe haven for WoF believers, not a place to get some easy cheap jabs at something you know little about and do not understand.
I will politely ask you to leave. We are Christians and should not have to resort to "reporting" each other.
Do the right thing, the Christ-like thing, the love thing...and just leave.
Thank you.

de1929 · Feb 14, 2016

Didaskalos said:
Most often people use terms like "prosperity gospel" as a derogatory term intending to criticism and malign.
If people are using that term in this thread in that context, they should not be here. This is a safe haven for WoF believers, not a place to get some easy cheap jabs at something you know little about and do not understand.
I will politely ask you to leave. We are Christians and should not have to resort to "reporting" each other.
Do the right thing, the Christ-like thing, the love thing...and just leave.
Thank you.

who are you ?

de1929 · Feb 14, 2016

ABlessedMan said:
Tricks are deception. A tool of Satan.
Tricks are lies. A tool of Satan.

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Tim 4:1-2 (KJV)

God is clear. Liars have left (or have never had) the faith. Those who do not have the faith are seduced by demonic spirits, eliciting doctrines of devils, speaking lies, speaking in hypocrisy, becoming liars. And even through the Spirit of God would sear their conscious as if with a hot iron, they can not feel it or understand the depth of the error of using things that are not holy to try to convince others of things, whether those things seem to be of God, like the sons of Sceva in Acts 19, or whether it be more insidious and actually be a move of the devil.

If you feel compelled to use "tricks" you should repent and move back into the righteousness of Christ. Tricks, lies, deception and error are never tools that God has told us to use.

really ? take a look at this picture below... who trick the guy to attend the firework ?

ABlessedAnomaly · Feb 14, 2016

de1929 said:
really ? take a look at this picture below... who trick the guy to attend the firework ?

Ok, here's what I need you to do since you maligned my testimony. Tell me what my relationship was with my wife (then girlfriend) leading up to this event. Tell me if I had been to church with her yet. Tell me if we had any discussions about Jesus to that point.

Tell me every little detail that led up to what you are maligning into trickery and lies.

Do you think she lied to me? Do you think she deceived me?

Let me put it more bluntly: are you calling my wife a liar?

de1929 · Feb 14, 2016

ABlessedMan said:
Ok, here's what I need you to do since you maligned my testimony. Tell me what my relationship was with my wife (then girlfriend) leading up to this event. Tell me if I had been to church with her yet. Tell me if we had any discussions about Jesus to that point.

Tell me every little detail that led up to what you are maligning into trickery and lies.

Do you think she lied to me? Do you think she deceived me?

Let me put it more bluntly: are you calling my wife a liar?

no, she saved your live.

now faith · Feb 14, 2016

de1929 said:
no, she saved your live.

You know,what you are doing is just plain wrong.
Pasting a persons personal testimony, and trying to use it in some way is far beyond anything I have ever witnessed in these fourms.

You pasted comments from another person you were bantering with a few weeks ago,He told you to stop and with good reason.

Proverbs: 6. 16. These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

now faith · Feb 14, 2016

Here de I'll save you the trouble:

Son of a freewill baptist preacher had wonderful childhood. Drifted many years from god but always trusted in him. Came back in 08 thank you lord!

Gym, fishing, tennis, trucks,

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