Are you an "Old Maid?"

Tawhano

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I left out the details, because you haven't asked. You've only assumed.
Seriously? I have tried to get you answer the question starting at post #28 of which you have been offering bogus excuses to avoid answering.
What kind of 'aha gotcha moment' is there when someone is sharing their personal story?
You tell me. You are the one who suggested it. I only quoted you. What are you hiding?
Then why not say unsatisfied?
My bad, I over-estimated your communication skills.
Yep. Using semantics is not an effective way to communicate.
It isn’t semantics that is your stumbling stone it is grammar. The use of the word should have given you a clue as to its meaning. So let me rephrase the question in a simple format and see if you are honestly going to answer it or offer more bogus excuses.

So what was it about your faith made you realize you had been wrong the whole time?
 
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HitchSlap

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Seriously? I have tried to get you answer the question starting at post #28 of which you have been offering bogus excuses to avoid answering.
You tell me. You are the one who suggested it. I only quoted you. What are you hiding?
My bad, I over-estimated your communication skills.
It isn’t semantics that is your stumbling stone it is grammar. The use of the word should have given you a clue as to its meaning. So let me rephrase the question in a simple format and see if you are honestly going to answer it or offer more bogus excuses.

So what was it about your faith made you realize you had been wrong the whole time?
My deconversion was about an eight year process, beginning after about thirty years as a Christian. During the course of my study and investigation into various fields of study, my reasons for belief slowly began to fade, until one day I ultimately realized there were no good reasons to believe.
 
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Tawhano

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Then why not say unsatisfied?
Just so you know where I am coming from when I said I over-estimated your communication skills:

Happiness (noun):
a state of well-being and contentment

Happy (adjective):
pleased or glad about a particular situation, event, etc.
(www.merriam-webster.com)

Adjective: a word that modifies a noun or pronoun
(The only Grammar book you’ll ever need; Susan Thurman)

Happy used as adjective to mean Satisfied:
satisfied that something is good or right; not anxious
  • happy (with somebody/something) Are you happy with that arrangement?
  • I'm not happy with his work this term.
  • She was happy enough with her performance.
  • happy (about somebody/something) If there's anything you're not happy about, come and ask.
  • I'm not too happy about her living alone.
  • I said I'd go just to keep him happy
(http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/happy)

Happy used as a noun:
“I've repeatedly told you happiness had nothing to do with my deconversion”
Happy used as an adjective:
“What part of your faith were you not happy with when you to tested it.”

Two different uses of the word happy and two different meanings.
 
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Tawhano

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My deconversion was about an eight year process, beginning after about thirty years as a Christian. During the course of my study and investigation into various fields of study, my reasons for belief slowly began to fade, until one day I ultimately realized there were no good reasons to believe.
aha gotcha! Just kidding.

My conversion was parallel to yours. I was a young cocky blighter who thought I knew everything. I was convinced that there was no God or even gods and miracles were exaggerated events. I based this on my observations of religious people and their doctrines whom I loved to argue with. A surfer bloke in New Zealand, whom I was arguing religion with, wiped the beach with my sorry butt with his rebuttals. I began to read the entire Bible so as to be more educated the next time I encountered him. Instead I ended up asking questions (not debating). The results of that was I found religion. As with you my studies over the years began to expose holes in the religion I choose. In other words I became unhappy about the religion I chose. That is when I enquired of God and received an answer I cannot deny to this day.
 
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Oncedeceived

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To your knowledge, how many children from Christian homes choose to follow Allah? Or vice versa?
I haven't read past this point in the thread but really wanted to respond to your comment here. When you have the truth as in Christianity why would one need to choose something untrue? Vice versa...many many have found Christ and have lost their families or their lives for it. WE don't see Christians becoming Muslims because of Christ but if someone does become a Muslim, they are not killed for it. Allah asks his followers to die for him, Christ asks His followers to live and He died for them. Christians don't kill others for not worshiping Christ but Muslims do kill others for not worshiping Allah.
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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When you have the truth as in Christianity why would one need to choose something untrue?

This can be reversed for anyone born to Muslim parents. "When you have the truth as in Islam, why would one need to choose something untrue?". Would you agree if you were born to Muslim parents, in a Muslim culture, you'd be just as convinced that Islam was true?

WE don't see Christians becoming Muslims because of Christ but if someone does become a Muslim, they are not killed for it.

Don't pretend like Christianity hasn't been harmful in other ways. I could bring up the crusades but let's stick to this century. There are denominations of Christianity that encourage their followers to shun their own family members if they leave the faith.
 
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Tawhano

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During the course of my study and investigation into various fields of study, my reasons for belief slowly began to fade, until one day I ultimately realized there were no good reasons to believe.
My original post was an observation from your past post on other threads and your response to the post of Nihilist Virus. I stand by my initial conclusion based on your answer to my question. While I believe there might be some truth in story you told I do not buy the science saved me canard. I think it is just an excuse that people use to hide behind for human weaknesses; much like people who use religion as a crutch.

I believe science has the same problem that religions have. Namely that the waters are muddied by those who are out for a quick buck and use science or religion as their platform. So when someone says they used either science or religion as their measuring stick for truth, well I am a bit skeptical that they found the truth at all. Bits of truth has the same effect as falsehood. It would be difficult to arrive at the truth using bits of truth.
 
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Oncedeceived

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This can be reversed for anyone born to Muslim parents. "When you have the truth as in Islam, why would one need to choose something untrue?". Would you agree if you were born to Muslim parents, in a Muslim culture, you'd be just as convinced that Islam was true?
If one is a Christian due to the relationship they have with Christ, they know it is true. If they are just labeling themselves Christian then they don't have the truth. I wasn't raised a Christian but I imagine if I were it would be something that I would be led to believe is true just as those in Islam are led to believe Islam is true but truth is not something that someone believes just because someone else does. So I'm not talking about someone who is just a label Christian but a born again Christian.



Don't pretend like Christianity hasn't been harmful in other ways. I could bring up the crusades but let's stick to this century. There are denominations of Christianity that encourage their followers to shun their own family members if they leave the faith.
There are people of every domination on the face of the earth that might get upset at a family member for some reason...pregnancy, a boy or girl parents don't like and on and on but they don't kill them for it. Christianity is not a harmful religion and is not harmful in anyway. There are label bearing Christians that may do harm but they do so in spite of Christianity rather than for Christianity.
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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If one is a Christian due to the relationship they have with Christ, they know it is true.

How do you know it's true. What evidence do you have?

If they are just labeling themselves Christian then they don't have the truth.

Could you clarify this? This doesn't make any sense.

I wasn't raised a Christian but I imagine if I were it would be something that I would be led to believe is true just as those in Islam are led to believe Islam is true

How does one determine their religious beliefs are true. What evidence are you following to come to that conclusion?

So I'm not talking about someone who is just a label Christian but a born again Christian.

No true Scotsman fallacy.

There are people of every domination on the face of the earth that might get upset at a family member for some reason...pregnancy, a boy or girl parents don't like and on and on but they don't kill them for it.

I'm not talking about other reasons. I'm talking about religious reasons. Do you think it's moral for some Christian denominations to encourage their followers to shun people who don't follow their faith, including family members?

Christianity is not a harmful religion and is not harmful in anyway.

Tell that to the homosexuals who were murdered in cold blood in Uganda because of an anti-homosexual bill put together by Christians.
 
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Tawhano

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Do you think it's moral for some Christian denominations to encourage their followers to shun people who don't follow their faith, including family members?
Do you think it is moral for someone to ridicule another because they believe differently than you?
 
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Oncedeceived

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How do you know it's true. What evidence do you have?
What do you call evidence?



Could you clarify this? This doesn't make any sense.
Sure. Unless someone has experienced Jesus in their lives and has a relationship with Him they are not born again Christians and just live with a label of Christian upon them but who have no more idea if Jesus is real than you do.



How does one determine their religious beliefs are true. What evidence are you following to come to that conclusion?
The same way all of us come to conclusions in our lives.



No true Scotsman fallacy.
There are real Christians and then there are not. It is a fact of life.



I'm not talking about other reasons. I'm talking about religious reasons. Do you think it's moral for some Christian denominations to encourage their followers to shun people who don't follow their faith, including family members?
Nope. I don't encourage any behavior that is not specified by Christ. That doesn't mean that even I am free of behavior that Christ would not like. I have had family members who were not Christian and I treated them the same as I would want to be treated and loved them just the same.



Tell that to the homosexuals who were murdered in cold blood in Uganda because of an anti-homosexual bill put together by Christians.
I would tell everyone that murder is wrong in Christianity and that those who kill in the name of Christ do so against Christ rather than for Him.
 
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Tawhano

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Religions are not immune to criticism
Doesn’t even remotely answer my question. I am starting to see a common pattern among those labeling themselves as atheist here on this forum. Again: Do you think it is moral for someone to ridicule another because they believe differently than you?
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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Doesn’t even remotely answer my question.

Please explain how asking questions is ridiculing someone's beliefs.
Depends what context you're asking that question in. I don't care if someone believes in a God. I think it's fair to ask questions to investigate people's beliefs. If those beliefs are harmful to someone else, yes, I think it is fair to ridicule that. For example, if those beliefs lead people to shun their own family members for not sharing their beliefs, I find that harmful and will ridicule it.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Please explain how asking questions is ridiculing someone's beliefs.
Depends what context you're asking that question in. I don't care if someone believes in a God. I think it's fair to ask questions to investigate people's beliefs. If those beliefs are harmful to someone else, yes, I think it is fair to ridicule that. For example, if those beliefs lead people to shun their own family members for not sharing their beliefs, I find that harmful and will ridicule it.
That is not the religion but the people who are acting against it. It is not the beliefs of the religion which leads them to shun their own family members but their skewed beliefs that have nothing to do with Christianity.
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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That is not the religion but the people who are acting against it. It is not the beliefs of the religion which leads them to shun their own family members but their skewed beliefs that have nothing to do with Christianity.

This is the no true Scotsman fallacy. This is their interpretation of the bible and Christianity. It is exactly dealing with the religious beliefs and how they interpret them. There are over 40,000 different denominations of Christianity. How do you know you picked the right one? What criteria do you use to determine this?
 
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Oncedeceived

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This is the no true Scotsman fallacy. This is their interpretation of the bible and Christianity. It is exactly dealing with the religious beliefs and how they interpret them. There are over 40,000 different denominations of Christianity. How do you know you picked the right one? What criteria do you use to determine this?
It is not "no true Scotsman fallacy". You can't make up your own "interpretation" without having something to base it on. Also, your 40,000 is incorrect and is misleading:

The source does refer to 33000+ total "Christian" denominations, but it defines the word "denomination" as an organized Christian group within a specific country:

Denominations. A denomination is defined in this Encyclopedia as an organized aggregate of worship centers or congregations of similar ecclesiastical tradition within a specific country; i.e. as an organized Christian church or tradition or religious group or community of believers, within a specific country, whose component congregations and members are called by the same denominational name in different areas, regarding themselves as one autonomous Christian church distinct from other denominations, churches and traditions. As defined here, world Christianity consists of 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural blocs, divided into 300 major ecclesiastical traditions,composed of over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries, these denominations themselves being composed of over 3,400,000 worship centers, churches or congregations.” (Barrett et al, volume 1, page 16, Table 1-5, emphasis added)

So we have, according to Barrett's Encyclopedia:

  • a denomination is defined as existing within a specific country
  • there are 33,000+ total of these "Christian denominations" in 238 total countries
These 33,000 are subdivided into "6 major ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs", and ordering them by denomination size we have (I am rounding up or down slightly for convenience, using year 2000 figures) :

So the 33,000 number is from the total of these 6 mega-blocs:

22000 + 9000 + 1600 + 781 + 242 + 168 = 33,000+

That's where the 33,000 figure comes from. If you count the "mega-bloc" of "Protestants" only it is 9000 / 33000 or 27% of the total. However, if you combine Protestants with Independents and Anglicans ( [22000 + 9000 + 168] / 33000) it is94% of the total or 31,000+ . We will see below that most (about 97%) of the"Independent" churches are indeed Protestants. Now that we have that settled, I will examine what the source says about each of these "mega-blocs." All of the information below is found on pages 16-18 (volume 1) of the World Christian Encyclopedia (2001, 2nd edition).

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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It is not "no true Scotsman fallacy".

Many of those denominations have different interpretations of scripture. Some take all of it literally, some don't. Some denominations accept evolution, some don't. How do you know you are following the right version? How do you know your interpretation is correct and others aren't?
 
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