LDS Is Moroni a fallen demonic angel?
- Thread starter rockytopva
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But finding scrolls tucked away in a cave somewhere is a sure sign of God's grace?
I'm being serious here.
The world rejoiced when the Dead Sea Scrolls were tracked down, but we're supposed to believe that the Book of Mormon is not plausible because it was translated from a record that was similarly stored away for later?
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mmksparbud
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The Dead Sea scrolls are about a known people, in a known language, no rock in a hat needed to decipher. Some kid threw a rock into a cave and he heard pottery breaking----as opposed to a never heard of before angel showing some man where they were hidden, and then taking back the plates---the Dead Sea scrolls are still hear, still being examined. Give us the Golden plates and shut everybody up.
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So let's think about this for a minute.
In the Word of God, it talks about scribes. That is how anything that was written down, like the Bible was produced. A scribe would copy it word for word.
That is how it has been done until recently with the printing press and other ways to mass produce literature.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are carbon dated copies of the Bible that were copied by scribes thousands of years ago. Thats' how it was done and they were probably hidden for safe keeping.
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And you know what? The plates were *also* hidden away for safe keeping. What's so wrong about that?
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Well let's look at the plates then.
The plates were not copies of a preexisting book that was copied. The plates were new. The plates were written in some type of Egyptian hyrogliphic writing that was and is not even a known language. So who wrote something in an unknown language. No one writes in an unknown language that needs something to dicipher it but secret societies and others hiding something.
God has always used the basic language of the people and people groups. Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Standard and EXISTING languages of their time.
I've always found the hyrogliphs thing to be a big problem also. Egyptians were never followers of God. The Egyptians made the Israelite's worship other God's and held them as slaves before God rescued them. Egyptians are known for having hundreds of God's. '
God follows a pattern. The whole gold plates is nothing God has ever done before. Very odd indeed.
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I find it strange when people tell God that there's something He can't do, simply because He hasn't done before.
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This.
The BoM clearly states that the writing system used for the plates was a writing system *in common use among the people who kept the plates in the first place*, meaning that it was indeed a common language... just one that was dead by the time they were uncovered.
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It's integral to any argument based on the idea "God's never done this before, so it can't possibly be Him doing it now".
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It seems your making things up as you go along. Please quote EXACTLY what I do say. I do not desire to have my thoughts rewritten by someone else who does not know my thoughts.
It does not help you to understand what I am saying by changing it.
Maybe go back and read it again. Slower this time
It does not help you to understand what I am saying by changing it.
Maybe go back and read it again. Slower this time
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The people who kept the record used a hybridized system of Hebrew and Egyptian. This is what critics of the church refer to as "Reformed Egyptian". The people who lived at the time of the BoM had no trouble reading it, indicating that the system was common enough. Sadly, the people who created the system were wiped out, and it's well within the realm of possibility that the records of the system were among the vast amounts of material that the conquistadors destroyed for being "heathen" in nature.
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BigDaddy4
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That's the fairy tale. Millions of people vanished. Whoosh! Without a trace. Location unknown. Could be New York area. Could be Central America. Could be...?
That's an awful lot of misguided faith in a civilization that never existed.
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Seems like that's what the Mormons refer to it as reformed Egyptian and as far as anyone else they've never heard of that language so from what I understand from what I've been researching that language does an existing that's a Mormon creation so it's not the critics of the church. No one that studied any languages from any universities are Skylers has ever heard of that language
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mmksparbud
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Well, you come up with a language that is not Egyptian--there was plenty of it around, but nobody could read it yet, but you say it is not really Egyptian, it is a mix--it is "corrupted" Egyptian characters, but thought in Hebrew, which is also "corrupted"--Or----what it is, is slang, shorthand Hebrew, but written in slang, shorthand Egyptian which does not exist anywhere else but within this one society that has been wiped out and nothing but these plates exist. Then you have a stone that you put in a hat that can decipher this. Then the plates are again hidden from view. No one can say it isn't what they claim.
There is a precedence for this---after all God wrote the 10 commandments with His own finger, and you can't find them now to examine them, either----mind you, the God of the entire universe with no end of gold, diamonds, no end of precious costly materials at hand and that can create more out of nothing chooses stone to write on!!---However, some poor, never heard of "kingdom' that there is no record of anywhere, nor even mentioned by any other ancient peoples, write on gold! There must have been tons of it around and there should be a lot more still there---if not now, at least at the time the plates were found??? Perhaps even one really rich gold mine close by?? If I weren't old and decrepit I'd go hunting.
Now, if this were of a "demonic nature"--I would think Satan had enough brains to have some corroborating evidence around--pottery, tattered linen, a little sample of another gold plate with at least one letter of this alphabet--a piece of pottery from some other ancient people that mentioned this group--something that would make it more believable. He is pretty clever and this falls just a little short of his brilliant work, so I wouldn't call it one of his masteroieces-- But, who knows, maybe he'll correct the oversight yet.
There is a precedence for this---after all God wrote the 10 commandments with His own finger, and you can't find them now to examine them, either----mind you, the God of the entire universe with no end of gold, diamonds, no end of precious costly materials at hand and that can create more out of nothing chooses stone to write on!!---However, some poor, never heard of "kingdom' that there is no record of anywhere, nor even mentioned by any other ancient peoples, write on gold! There must have been tons of it around and there should be a lot more still there---if not now, at least at the time the plates were found??? Perhaps even one really rich gold mine close by?? If I weren't old and decrepit I'd go hunting.
Now, if this were of a "demonic nature"--I would think Satan had enough brains to have some corroborating evidence around--pottery, tattered linen, a little sample of another gold plate with at least one letter of this alphabet--a piece of pottery from some other ancient people that mentioned this group--something that would make it more believable. He is pretty clever and this falls just a little short of his brilliant work, so I wouldn't call it one of his masteroieces-- But, who knows, maybe he'll correct the oversight yet.
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Seems like that's what the Mormons refer to it as reformed Egyptian and as far as anyone else they've never heard of that language so from what I understand from what I've been researching that language does an existing that's a Mormon creation so it's not the critics of the church.
No one that studied any languages from any universities or scholars has ever heard of that language
No one that studied any languages from any universities or scholars has ever heard of that language
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