Forging steel. The coolest hobby
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Witness2016
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How long have you been doing this and what caught your interest to learn forging. How did you know where to get the steel and how do you know the difference in grades. Also, how do you buy it, is it a certain shape when you buy it or do you buy scraps and shape from there. Do you design as you go along, having a design in your mind or do you have a pattern of some kind? And can you weld two different grades together and forge 2 kinds of steel together like a braid?
Just thinking..I do tend to think too much...lol na..nobody can think too much if it is fun stuff, ... that is..
Just thinking..I do tend to think too much...lol na..nobody can think too much if it is fun stuff, ... that is..
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I have been doing this for about a year, i started learning about it before that however. I haven't done much so far because much time was spent on learning about forges, building them, and testing them. I was trying to find a cheap and usable forge. Forge fuel was a concern. I also needed an anvil. I could have found any plate of steel to use as an anvil, but i waited till i made my own anvil before i attempted to forge anything. That was quite a project. My interest in forging was a result of my desire to make my own woodworking tools. As i watched a video about forging i quickly decided to try it.
I'll answer your questions to the best of my knowledge. You can forge different types of steel together. This is called forge welding. When you forge different kinds of steel together this will result in whats called "laminated" steel. This kind of steel can be acid etched. Its used in making knives, for its artistic appeal. You can also forge weld high and low carbon steels together. IM not sure what steels cant be welded together, and my knowledge is mostly limited to carbon steel, not alloy steels.
As far as testing grades of steel goes. You can put the metal on a grinder and observe the spark pattern. This indicates things like carbon content, which can be useful in identifying metals. Another way is to try hardening the metal. If it hardens then you have high carbon steel, if it doesn't harden then its more than likely low carbon steel. You can test the metals hardness with a metal file. If its soft the file will bite into the steel, but if its hard it will skate off the steel as if it were on ice. There are alloy steels too, but i tend to not worry about them. Some people can identify certain steel by the ring it makes when being struck with a hammer. I'm not that good.
If we are using scrap steel these techniques are about the only tests that will be useful. If we are buying new steel then we can follow he heat treating instructions for that particular steel. As far as designs go, im still an amateur and im just now beginning to forge things. I will most likely do a couple projects that i find in videos, and perhaps i'll conceive some design in my imagination as well. I have a few tool ideas. I have a supply of scrap spring steel which i will be using for making woodworking tools that i have planned. My other forging project will be using mild steel. I could use some mild steel, but currently do not have any. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. Thank you.
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Finding a forge, or building one, isnt difficult. I just needed the cheapest way of heating and building a forge, and so i experimented with different ways of heating one. I tried propane, charcoal, and wood scraps. Many blacksmiths use coal which burns a lot longer than wood charcoal does, but its not always easy to find, or cheap. Using propane is very useful and convenient, but you can use a small bbq sized bottle of propane in one or two days. That gets expensive. So i use wood scraps. I could make my own charcoal instead of burning the scraps, and that idea is still on the table. Maybe i'll try using coal one day as well. It would be nice if i had an abundant supply of it, but wood seems to serve me well.
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Witness2016
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OK that is interesting.. I do understand how it does take time to learn skilled stuff...
What is scrap spring steel? And mild steel? Online taught you how to id the steel and temps and armor you need!? Humm.. what kinds of woodworking do you do that you desire to make tools for?
What is scrap spring steel? And mild steel? Online taught you how to id the steel and temps and armor you need!? Humm.. what kinds of woodworking do you do that you desire to make tools for?
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OK that is interesting.. I do understand how it does take time to learn skilled stuff...
I have some metal leaf springs, they are what we see on trucks, and some cars. They are flat pieces of springy steel. This kind of steel is high carbon steel. It gets its springiness from how its hardened and tempered. This steel can make decent cutting tools as well as springs, but must be heat treated differently for tools. This is an example of high carbon steel.
Mild steel has a low carbon content and cannot be hardened. Low carbon steel is useful for many forging projects, but not suitable for making springs and cutting tools. It can be bought at the local steel supplier and is the most ready available steel on the market. You can find scrap low carbon steel by understanding what its used for. Low carbon steel is used for fences, structural steel framing, nails, and other such things. It will bend a lot before it breaks because its softer than heat treated metal. This is desirable in some things.
High carbon steel is used for things that need wear resistance such as ball bearing and knife blades. THey also use allow steels for these things. Allow steels are often high carbon steel, but they have other metals added to them in order to make them more resistant to corrosion and wear. These steels are often not the easiest to work with, and the home blacksmith would do better with regular carbon steels, which include high and low carbon steel.
Im interested in traditional wood carving and joinery, as well as modern techniques.
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Witness2016
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How do you know the steel you are buying is what they claim it to be ? How do you buy it ? From an actual real business or scrap yards? I would think car repair or truck repair would sell steel cheaper due to them having to pay to get someone to pick it up from them...condition doesn't matter, because you are melting and designing/ molding it....Also have you read what Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has written about Carbon Steel and Alloy Steal some info lost me but interesting to know and to see some scientist sweat over how they are to explain where steel came from lol.
God sure linked everything together ...I keep seeing the same elements in various things..
Some would prefer labeling as nutrients...they are not nutrients when they make us human up or play a vital part in the body..just thinking again..
Thank you for sharing..
God sure linked everything together ...I keep seeing the same elements in various things..
Some would prefer labeling as nutrients...they are not nutrients when they make us human up or play a vital part in the body..just thinking again..
Thank you for sharing..
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Witness2016
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I have been thinking and writing and you wrote already and posted lol
No need to repeat if I asked again that which you said.I refreshed to make sure you hadn't replied but you did Thank you,
now I will go read .
No need to repeat if I asked again that which you said.I refreshed to make sure you hadn't replied but you did Thank you,
now I will go read .
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Generally we have low, medium, and high carbon steels. Don't worry, its not as complicated as it sounds. In time you will understand. If we are unaware what kind of steel a person is selling us, then we can just ask them. I have bought some mild (low carbon steel) in the past. I used it for welding. You can make tables and other things from mild steel. When you buy mild steel you know you are getting mild steel. It is always found in the form of angles, round and square bars, pipes ,sheet metal. It is what you see in home depot. Its just regular mild steel. Its most common form of steel that is sold to consumers. So if you see steel for sale commercially in the hardware store or home depot, its most likely mild steel.
I buy from the local steel dealer if i want new steel. It is always mild steel. If i want high carbon steel i'll need to search online for a dealer, because i don't think its readily available locally. Or i can use scrap steel that has a high carbon content. I haven't bought any new steel other than mild steel. If i buy a little high carbon steel for a knife project, or some other tool, then ill need to take the sellers word for it. I'll need to trust they are selling me what they claim to be.
Most of my steel will most likely be scrap steel. I look for high carbon steel for tools, and low carbon steel for other things. Some tools can be made with mild steel, such as blacksmith tongs. Mild steel would be a good choice for tongs. I just look for mild and carbon steel. Im not overly concerned with carbon or alloy content of the steel, i just look for a high carbon content for use in forging cutting tools. When looking at steel, there is a learning curve, but its not that difficult to understand after you study it.
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Hi,
Well said.
Always ask a person in love with something about that. Their answers are more correct and simpler also.
Your descriptions are amazingly accurate and simple.
I did research. I still do. One day in a seminar I was in, I dreaded going, but perked up at the first sentence out of the instructor's mouth. "All metals are crystals."
Never has this electronics educated person ever heard that.
Next. "The size of those crystals determines heat flow, electrical flow, hardness and ductility."
The next six hours passed, as though , they never happened. The one day lecture on metals was that wonderful.
Years and years later as this all sunk in well, I knew that even within a solid metal, I can increase the grain size, the size of the crystals, by heating to a high temperature, and cooling it very slowly.
Fast cooling, gives the smallest crystal sizes, which are also called grain sizes.
So, yes single crystal is softer, and transmits heat and electricity better.
I hope you already know that, and if you don't, I hope you find it interesting.
Normally grain size is checked, by polishing a surface, then acid etching it, then looking under a microscope and using a ruler, in the microscope or attached to it, to measure the grain sizes.
LOVE,
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Thank you. I have seen welders acid etch metal in order to inspect welds. I have read a little about grain structure but not much. I'm not a metallurgist, just an amateur metal worker. I did find your post interesting. Thanks again.
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Hi,
Well I never was one also. Our group ran out of work after our last big project.
We all had nothing to do. Someone got the idea we should switch to something else, so we spent months coming up to speed on new stuff.
That metal lecture was one of them. And, knowing that all metals are crystals.... is perhaps the first and most important thing you will ever need to know in metals.
I still use that information, from that first two sentences. The lecture, seminar form, happened in 1985 or earlier.
But, it took a lot more time with metals to understand how that affects me, and those metals.
You are now, more informed than you know right now.
New subject: Atoms stick to other atoms, because some of the protons which are all clumped together, are not shielded by all the electrons surrounding them.
Carbon has four holes in its, proton shield of electrons.
Those protons, attract other atoms.
Carbon is the stickiest atom with four. Silicon has four also, holes in the electrons shielding the protons.
Which two atoms, when added to iron atoms, make the iron harder?
Is it silicon and carbon in general or not?
I forget about Tungsten.
Stickiness, the number of points of stickiness, you may never need to know the other word for it. It is Valence for the number.
That's enough for now.
Also, I love anyone who can cast metals.
It's so neat, even though Blocks of cars now are all High Tech castings, even the guy who made the worlds fastest Indian motorcycle, is said to have cast his own Pistons then, for some reason or another.
I would think casting, Foundry work would interest you also, but is incredibly hazardous for the liquid iron and other liquid metals used.
Small metal melting ovens are on YouTube somewhere.
LOVE,
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I worked foundries. I also worked in a forge once. We forged axles for cars, and things like that. I like hand forging because its artistic and practical.
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Hi,
Okay. Wow! You worked in a Foundry.
Neat.
They really impress me.
For years and years, I had the hardest time understanding how metal could be shaped that way. In castings.
There just had to be more to it than that.
Still it is hard for me, the idea of pouring liquid metal into any mold, and then have it be useful for anything, like large gears.
Yet, people who have done it, say it does work, pretty much just that way.
I have no idea, unless it is lack of experience with it, what my problem us.
Academically. Intellectually, it can't be a problem as that is how I am told things are done.
Maybe I just have to see it done, and deal with the cooled finished products for awhile.
I don't know yet.
LOVE,
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Some people pour cast aluminum, brass, and even iron at home. Steel is more complicated to pour in a home foundry, i believe. Forging is better than casting because it takes a strong piece of metal, and hammers it, making it even stronger. Casting metal however makes it weaker, but it has its uses. I don't know much about casting metal. I only know that's its hot, dirty and hard work. Forging steal is truly a cool way to shape steel.
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Witness2016
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As far as woodworking tools, do you plan to make them with a wood handle or steel? I'm thinking gardening tools that I have that I received from an Elderly man years ago which I can not find on the market, not sure they even have a name lol.
I don't even know that I used them for the same purpose that he made them. He made them in his little shack that he built many moons ago.. He used charcoal. They had a wooden handle, so my point is do you or can you use wood as a handle for smaller tools? Can you make those groves that make a grip easier, as to the straight handles that need to be taped?
Thank You!
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I like old tools. Yes, you can put wood handles on woodworking tools. Its the most common way actually. You can shape the handle any way you want. Shaping wood is easier when its still green, you could hand carve your own handle when the wood is still green. I hand carved a hammer handle and it turned out nice. You could also turn it on a wood lathe as well, and the wood can be wet (green) or dry. I have never made carving tools before, but i'm planning on it. I would like to make both wood turning and carving chisels.
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Witness2016
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In making carving tools, do you already know which ones you want to design, or are they readily available and you just desire to make your own? Can you hollow out a hand held (small) stick like piece of steel and make it that you can attach a longer handle on it ?
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Witness2016
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I'm guessing once you get started you will have those tool made in a short time...then again that would depend on how beautiful you desire to make them ...Can you heat up a let's say, a 1 foot long piece and make a few hand tool pieces from that, the same day, or do you have to complete the tool and go back to heating then designing next piece? Actually, can you make several wood handles then forge and place the steel part (blade ,etc..) onto the wood handles or do you have to do then in completion one at a time; steel and wood?
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