Take away all Christ and Bible teaching and what morals and ethics are left?

Larnievc said:

Go to Japan and find out.

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My grand father went to Japan in WW2. Japan needed correction. But they got it from soldiers instead of missionaries, but the latter have been there since.

Nithavela said:

I say, let's return to biblical morals. I'm off enslaving some frenchmen and steal their virgins, and then I will have my children stoned for disobeying my commands.

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These ideas are not Biblically based or Bible moral based.

quatona said:

I don´t understand the question. People can have all sorts of moralities and ethics, and they can ascribe them to whatever sources they believe in.


...because they don´t consider them positively moral/ethical?

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Would a European in Rome, Austria, Germany, or Sweden have morals and ethics as important if it were not for Christ? Would they have morals and ethics or Odin and strategies for conquest, to ascribe to someone or something?

Why is it they Christ is not positively ethical? And what is? Where does a questioner get their morals from?

keith99 said:

This foolishness of thinking without Christ that there would be no morality goes back at least a few decades. C.S. Lewis ranted a bit about those who act as if Christ threw everything out. Lewis pointed out that 95% of what Christ taught was the same thing children learned at their mothers knee growing up. Yet we still see those who do not pause to think claiming every other system is 100% wrong, ignoring that this means 95% of their morality mujst be wrong too.

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I am not referring to non Europeans, this forum is in English and based in the USA. Jesus did teach that childlike trust is good. But children are open to many bad ideas and natural weaknesses as they get older. Jesus sets a cast around Christian families and they set straight and morally better.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

Have you ever thought that Christian values weren't started by Christians, but Pagans. No one can say for sure what came from when and where, but the histry of society predates Christianity by a fair margin.

Christ taught love but he taught it to those jews that would listen to him and they may have thought love only pretained to them instead of everybody. I'm sure the Love thy neighbor really turned a few heads, but I think their were moral and ethical people before the time of Christ.

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Yes there must have been, but what if they were called to war for the society? Primitive people without Greece may not have understood Christ. Some of pagan culture would have been influenced by pagan's guardian angels. Christ encompasses all the best of the gods, in an historical person and events.

Locutus said:

Your personal perspective has as much sense and meaning to those outside your bubble as me saying "Rejecting Odin's values and ways. Why would someone do this?" Sounds pretty foolish, doesn't it. As though I hold the delusion that Odin worship is universal.

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Well, this forum is US based, we speak English. I am not familiar with non European descent members.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

Bull. I wish you guys would do some research before you come up with this "I think this sounds good so I'll go with it, Stuff!"

At least read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" Germany didn't reject anything other than the overwhelming burden of the war preparations that came from WWI.

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German Christian marriage was replaced by state ceremonies. They were not Christian. Like Stalin trained in Trinitarianism, either for ambition or genuinely, they no longer believed in the Trinity, and some used the NT in warping the truth fashion, to stir ant-semitic hatred.

keith99 said:

But without Odin we would be overrun by frost giants by now! That why I always make the sign of the hammer over my beer.

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Mere mocking.

RDKirk said:

C'mon. Even Paul was perfectly aware of Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Zenos, et cetera. He even quoted Epimenides. Then there are Buddha and Confucius. For that matter, the Law of Hammurabi, the law known to Abraham, was originally written by some philosopher.

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And the glories of the nations go to Israel. Collector of benevolence and wisdom.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

You are talking about The Nazis. They were not the entire country

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Yes, the Nazis came to power and forced the other Germans to comply.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

Many pagan beliefs began long before Christ ever appeared on the scene. In fact it was the Christians who usurped pagan celebrations for to draw people towards God.

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Using good discernment we did not throw out wisdom from paganism.

SteveB28 said:

Yes, by all means, let's start lining up those homosexuals for a good stoning!
And why aren't we still hunting down all those witches?

And, before you start the pathetic bleating about "but, but, that's just the Old Testament", remind yourself that those charming pieces of your god's morality are also found in the New!

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I agree, the witch hunts were probably perpetrated by hypocrites, and sucked in God fearing Christians, makes atheists of the time look shrewd. It was not the apostles Gospel, but neither was stoning sinners. The Catholic catechism Biblically asks cuckolds not to divorce but love their wives as Christ loved the church.

SteveB28 said:

Of course they did! Because any moral code that exists within those painfully obvious directions was known to men for thousands of years before that talking bush dictated them!

Don't murder? Don't steal? Remain faithful? Honour your parents?

One wonders just how mankind managed to survive before Sinai!

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But look at how hard it was for Israel to do that, and the temptation from pagan gods and their worshippers? It still is hard, so there was need for the saviour. But this gets into apologetics with mention of homosexuals and stoning, so I asked the moderator to tidy up this thread.