How do we know...

food4thought

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I'm honestly struggling with this. I used to feel God's presence, but over the last ten years I have not, and I sometimes struggle to convince myself that I still have the Spirit.

Your collective input would be greatly appreciated.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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food4thought,

I think, sometimes, we mis-attribute what "feeling the presence of the spirit" means. We very frequently participate in emotionally-driven situations and are told that those deeply emotional feelings are being "filled with the spirit", and they probably are; whether in part or in entirety. However I don't think that's the only way we "feel the spirit". There was an interesting article a while back, I'll see if I can find it; that suggested we Christians should be wary of evangelizing using emotional techniques (altar calls, passionate testimonies at big events, etc.) because, in their research, the people who 'convert' rarely ever become committed; they begin attributing Christian faith with a butterfly feeling and when they no longer feel the butterflies, they think they no longer feel God. It was a convicting read for me because I'm active with an organization called Emmaus that has youth retreats called Chrysalis; and while the retreats are focused on education and learning, there are moments that can't help but be emotional. And I have, myself, experienced young people who struggle when they don't get those deep emotional feelings all the time about God; and struggle to see and experience God in other ways, other than just the butterflies.

"How do we know" is a tough one. Paul suggests looking for fruit, but that can sometimes be tough; because we have a tendency as human beings to compare ourselves to others and never find fruit in ourselves. As cliche as it may sound; I think this one just takes a bit of faith. To know that the presence of the triune God, as manifested by the Holy Spirit; is something that exists in every corner of the world; including your corner.

I hope the others will chime in; though I'm not personally a believer that one can 'lose' the spirit, as if it's something that has to be 'earned' or 'gained'. While the choice to follow the spirits leading is left up to us; I don't think God ever stops leading.
 
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Dave-W

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I suggest you do a search on "know" in the First epistle of John.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NASB&quicksearch=know&begin=69&end=69

Feelings can be very fickle and based on a number of things that have nothing to do with biblical Christianity: Personal preference. Cultural expectations. Past experiences. Everything we read, see, and imagine.

So I would not count on "feeling the Spirit" to be a valid indicator of His presence. (or lack thereof) Instead, read what the Bible says about the Indwelling Spirit and rely on that.

(BTW - in my opinion "feeling the Spirit" is more a function of Spirit Upon rather than Spirit Within)
 
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JCFantasy23

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I went years without 'feeling the spirit' the same during prayer. I think God was trying to get me to rely less on that sensation I was unconsciously seeking. There's no telling why this comes and goes - and for some people seems so strong but not on others. I think it's because we are all unique individuals who are in individual relationships with God (different personalities, different ways our minds work, different upbringing and situations).
 
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food4thought

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Thank you all for your input and encouragement... I'm still wrestling with it but I feel a bit better about my relationship with God than I did a few days ago. I am at work now, but I will try to respond to you individually soon.
 
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food4thought

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food4thought,

I think, sometimes, we mis-attribute what "feeling the presence of the spirit" means. We very frequently participate in emotionally-driven situations and are told that those deeply emotional feelings are being "filled with the spirit", and they probably are; whether in part or in entirety. However I don't think that's the only way we "feel the spirit". There was an interesting article a while back, I'll see if I can find it; that suggested we Christians should be wary of evangelizing using emotional techniques (altar calls, passionate testimonies at big events, etc.) because, in their research, the people who 'convert' rarely ever become committed; they begin attributing Christian faith with a butterfly feeling and when they no longer feel the butterflies, they think they no longer feel God. It was a convicting read for me because I'm active with an organization called Emmaus that has youth retreats called Chrysalis; and while the retreats are focused on education and learning, there are moments that can't help but be emotional. And I have, myself, experienced young people who struggle when they don't get those deep emotional feelings all the time about God; and struggle to see and experience God in other ways, other than just the butterflies.

"How do we know" is a tough one. Paul suggests looking for fruit, but that can sometimes be tough; because we have a tendency as human beings to compare ourselves to others and never find fruit in ourselves. As cliche as it may sound; I think this one just takes a bit of faith. To know that the presence of the triune God, as manifested by the Holy Spirit; is something that exists in every corner of the world; including your corner.

I hope the others will chime in; though I'm not personally a believer that one can 'lose' the spirit, as if it's something that has to be 'earned' or 'gained'. While the choice to follow the spirits leading is left up to us; I don't think God ever stops leading.

Thank you for replying, RomansFiveEight;
When I say I used to "feel" the Holy Spirit, I mean that I felt/sensed an intense clean pure liquid white light deep in my heart, overflowing and filling me with peace and joy, and this was with me for years fairly constantly. Then I went through a very difficult time where I literally lost my sanity, began hearing voices and seeing things about 4 years after I got saved. During this time I literally renounced my salvation... I told God "if this is salvation, I don't want it!", and then proceeded to say three times "I renounce my salvation". Yes, I actually did that, and I regret it more deeply than I do anything else I've ever done (and I've done some seriously messed up stuff in my pre-christian days).

Since that time, I have wholeheartedly repented and returned to the Lord, and have been doing my best to walk with God for the last 6-7 years, but I no longer sense the Spirit the way I used to. Also, some sins I had victory over before my problems have cropped back up, and I can't seem to beat them the way I did before. I don't think I have lost my salvation, because I think the Spirit has shown me some things, and He did help me regain my sanity (for the most part :).

I guess during my dark moments I do question my salvation, as this thread testifies to, but most of the time I am just frustrated that I don't have that sense/feeling anymore... I miss it more than I can possibly express. And I would really like to kick a couple bad habits I have (smoking is the big one) that keep defeating me in my spiritual walk.

Any advice you could give me would be appreciated, but mostly I just felt I needed to explain my thread post to everyone here... and sometimes it helps just to get these things off my chest.

Thanks again for your encouragment;
Mike
 
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RomansFiveEight

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Mike it sounds like you experienced a deeply emotional experience coupled with your salvation that you might've been confusing with your salvation. The Spirit certainly can be, at times, felt. And those deeply emotional moments are special and worth cherishing; but they aren't the litmus test for salvation. The spirit is ever present, even when it's not those white-hot emotional moments.

It also sounds to me like this is something you asked God to take from you. Isn't it reasonable to assume that God wouldn't want you to be in a similar situation in the future; where the emotional moments were so overbearing that they caused you to question and even renounce your faith?
 
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