No it isn't. Universalism would suggest that every person belongs to Jesus. This rather recognises that He has sheep in other sheepfolds that will follow Him, and He must bring them also, then they will be one flock with one shepherd.
So you would make the same distinction between knowledge and the word of knowledge, healing and gifts of healing etcetera?It's just logic. They are Christians, so obviously they already have a saving faith. I just showed you scripture that showed you their are different kinds of faith. A bunch of them.
So you would make the same distinction between knowledge and the word of knowledge, healing and gifts of healing etcetera?
must you have all 6
Your right it's not a theology exam. She was wondering how she could know her belief was real or not so I told her she could examine herself like scripture tells us too. John gave us ways we could look at ourselves so we can 'know' (1 John 5:13) " I write you these things to you who believe in the name of the son of God so that you may know you have eternal life."Salvation isn't a theology exam, nor is salvation a morality exam.
if you notice, on the bottom of my post I made it clear that I'm not saying these are works we must do to be saved but rather these are the fruits John said we would have.Those who would require you to meet some standard of righteousness or merit preach a false gospel.
There is no one that is righteous, says St. Paul in Romans ch. 3. None, save for Jesus Christ. It is not your righteousness, but His, that matters.
Your right it's not a theology exam. She was wondering how she could know her belief was real or not so I told her she could examine herself like scripture tells us too. John gave us ways we could look at ourselves so we can 'know' (1 John 5:13) " I write you these things to you who believe in the name of the son of God so that you may know you have eternal life."
if you notice, on the bottom of my post I made it clear that I'm not saying these are works we must do to be saved but rather these are the fruits John said we would have.
Agree
I agree, but in this context countrygirl was trying to decipher the difference between a genuine faith and just head knowledge.Our confidence before God (Coram Deo) must always be the Gospel.
But such things are not our confidence, nor the signs of our salvation--that is found solely in Christ, on Christ's account, upon the things God has said and declared; it is rather for the sake of our fellow man that we seek to do good, love everyone, and live in the new obedience which God has prepared for us in Christ our Lord, for we have been created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has prepared beforehand for us.
-CryptoLutheran
So you actually believe that "one" or only some Christians get wisdom, knowledge etc?
I believe that "one" or only some Christians get the gift of wisdom and the gift of knowledge yes.
It's not a hill that I will die on but it's the way I see it.
Can you rephrase the question please? I'm not following you. I apologize.OK, so do you make tongues different from these and faith, or do you make the same distinction between the general issue as given to "all" in Acts, and "the gift" of tongues referred to in 1 Corinthains 12 & 14?
Can you rephrase the question please? I'm not following you. I apologize.
You began by trying to teach that only some Christians speak in tongues because of a rhetorical question in 1 Corinthians 12 "do all speak in tongues".
I pointed out that you completely miss the context and you have since agreed that "to one" or some given faith, wisdom and knowledge cannot mean that only some Christians have these attributes.
It only remains for you to extend this simple distinction to speaking in tongues.
You began by trying to teach that only some Christians speak in tongues because of a rhetorical question in 1 Corinthians 12 "do all speak in tongues".
I pointed out that you completely miss the context
and you have since agreed that "to one" or some given faith, wisdom and knowledge cannot mean that only some Christians have these attributes.
I don't know where your having an issue. I pointed out that that verse is saying tongues is not for every believer. You said, "that would mean not every believer has faith". (Because that verse also mentions faith as a spiritual gift.) And I answered you saying it's not talking about a saving faith. All believers have a saving faith not every believer has faith to move mountains. That's it. Simple.It only remains for you to extend this simple distinction to speaking in tongues.
if i believe that Jesus is Lord and God. does that mean i am saved?
please name one!That's correct, but not only because of that verse. There are more.
why? in what other context do we find the Spirit only giving these attributes to some Christians?I disagree
You began by using it to teach that on;y some Christians speak in tongues!I never said it "cannot mean that only some Christians have these attributes ".
Because receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving salvation (Titus 3:5-6). Theis 1 gospel so it must be the same as at the beginning - all knew precisely when they received by God's independent witness of speaking in tongues - see Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46 etc, but now and you come along and use 1 Corinthians 12:29-30 against this clear teaching!I don't know where your having an issue.
Read post 54please name one!
read post 54. Can you show me a verse that says tongues is the evidence of salvation?why? in what other context do we find the Spirit only giving these attributes to some Christians?
CorrectYou began by using it to teach that on;y some Christians speak in tongues
"tongues may be the gift some have but not everyone." (post #26)
But you then distinguish "gift" of faith, knowledge etc from the general use, which I agree with, will you do the same for tongues?
Because receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving salvation (Titus 3:5-6). Theis 1 gospel so it must be the same as at the beginning - all knew precisely when they received by God's independent witness of speaking in tongues - see Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46 etc, but now and you come along and use 1 Corinthians 12:29-30 against this clear teaching!
He was teaching the Corinthians how things in the church should be run. I have no issue here.Do you know why Paul says what he does in 1 Corinthians 12?
What is the issue he is dealing with?
If you don't know why the chapter was written it is unlikely you ar going to use it corrctly!
I attend a church that doesn't believe in the continuation of the gifts. I don't agree with them on that but it is a debatable issue so it doesn't bother me.I have also asked you what happens in the main meetings where you worship?
I ask because I know that this is what the passage (and chapter 14 in greater detail) is refrring to and if you don't worship as detailed in it you are unlikely to appreciate what it says!
So, salvation and following the love and commandments of God ... big enough issue for you?
doh! he just quotes the same one you quoted!Read post 54
I already have, please see my previous posts and respond to the points you have hitherto ignoredread post 54. Can you show me a verse that says tongues is the evidence of salvation?
I never said it did, that's why I went on to wisdom & knowledge.I don't know why we can't get past this. Just because I clarified what is meant by faith doesn't mean I have to do the same with tongues.
You still aren't following the conversation, I have seen this from the start so this will be my last response unless I see a change in attitude.Titus 3:5-6 has nothing to do with speaking in tongues.
So Paul is not talking about what different Christians get at salvation??He was teaching the Corinthians how things in the church should be run. I have no issue here.
It doesn't bother you that the main passage on how the church meeting should be run (1 Corinthians 14 especially) is ignored?I attend a church that doesn't believe in the continuation of the gifts. I don't agree with them on that but it is a debatable issue so it doesn't bother me.
but then he goes on to speak about how we all have different gifts because we are different parts of the same body. He relates each gift with a different body part.doh! he just quotes the same one you quoted!
(and like you ignores the context, and all my comments to that effect on this thread)
I've responded to your other Posts piece by piece.I already have, please see my previous posts and respond to the points you have hitherto ignored
noI never said it did, that's why I went on to wisdom & knowledge.
Do you say there is a distinction between "the gift" of tongues referred to in 1 Corinthians 12 and tongues speaking in tongues referred to elsewhere?
I'm trying but I'm having trouble following you. I don't have this problem with other people. Maybe it's the way you construct your sentences; I don't know. I also have asperges.You still aren't following the conversation, I have seen this from the start so this will be my last response unless I see a change in attitude.
He's just simply stating different believers have different gifts, as seen in his rhetorical question.So Paul is not talking about what different Christians get at salvation??
It's a debatable issue if the gifts are for today or not. I'm more concerned that they teach the essentials. Eg, Christ's deity, the trinity, faith alone in Christ alone and so on.It doesn't bother you that the main passage on how the church meeting should be run (1 Corinthians 14 especially) is ignored?
[ICOLOR=#003366]"Follow after love, and desire spiritual gifts ... If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (vv1, 37)[/COLOR]
Paul says that those that do such are neither prophetic or spiritual.