Question for Catholics: Would you approve of it if America ever became a Catholic theocracy?

Wryetui · Nov 26, 2015

I am not Catholic, but I would like the Roman-Catholic Church to run as a theocracy over the USA. What are my reasons for this? Since the Catholic Church teaches itself to be the One, True, Church of Christ, it should behave like that, so it should encomprise all the power over humanity and should lead humanity to salvation at all costs. That would imply all the humanity surrendering to It, and the RCC should do everything for the country's salvation, as imposing strict rules to be followed and a moral superiority above everything that needs to be imposed over the country.

Jordan Kurecki · Nov 26, 2015

Hank77 said:
True

Baptists aren't Protestant? What are they then?

Well, the Protestant Reformation did not happen or start to really begin until the 1,400s, But there have been groups with Baptistic doctrine pretty much since the days of Christ, Soem examples: the Waldensians, the Aborigines, and the Paulicians. While I know that most Catholics claim that Baptists are Protestant, really Baptists were around before the Catholic Church as we know it today ever came into existence. in the 3rd Century, Emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire, merged the Roman Empire with "Christianity". This is why you see the Catholic Church setting itself up as a State church throughout history in various areas.In fact if you study Pagan Rome, you will see many parallels between the Catholic Church and the Pagan Rome Religion.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books, Tracts & Preaching/Printed Books/trail_of_blood_jm_carroll.htm
http://www.keithhunt.com/Midages8.html
http://www.wayoflife.org/database/protestantpersecutions.html

LoAmmi · Nov 26, 2015

Wryetui said:
I am not Catholic, but I would like the Roman-Catholic Church to run as a theocracy over the USA. What are my reasons for this? Since the Catholic Church teaches itself to be the One, True, Church of Christ, it should behave like that, so it should encomprise all the power over humanity and should lead humanity to salvation at all costs. That would imply all the humanity surrendering to It, and the RCC should do everything for the country's salvation, as imposing strict rules to be followed and a moral superiority above everything that needs to be imposed over the country.

At all costs? This line of thinking is absolutely terrifying and I'm happy that I've never seen anything official from the Church in modern times echo this at all.

Wryetui · Nov 26, 2015

LoAmmi said:
At all costs? This line of thinking is absolutely terrifying and I'm happy that I've never seen anything official from the Church in modern times echo this at all.

If I were a Catholic theocrat I wouldn't care at all about what that person feels to be bad or oppresive, but I would care for their eternal redemption at all costs. I think what is best for them even if they don't like it. They will thank me later.

Mountain_Girl406 · Nov 26, 2015

Wryetui said:
If I were a Catholic theocrat I wouldn't care at all about what that person feels to be bad or oppresive, but I would care for their eternal redemption at all costs. I think what is best for them even if they don't like it. They will thank me later.

Does being forced into belief still earn one eternal redemption? Or does it have to be a true faith?

LoAmmi · Nov 26, 2015

Wryetui said:
If I were a Catholic theocrat I wouldn't care at all about what that person feels to be bad or oppresive, but I would care for their eternal redemption at all costs. I think what is best for them even if they don't like it. They will thank me later.

I'm not sure doing great evil in the hopes of it turning out good is in line with any Christian teaching that I'm aware of.

Wryetui · Nov 26, 2015

Mountain_Girl406 said:
Does being forced into belief still earn one eternal redemption? Or does it have to be a true faith?

LoAmmi said:
I'm not sure doing great evil in the hopes of it turning out good is in line with any Christian teaching that I'm aware of.

In my country I have all the power (it's a theocracy) and my power is founded on the Catholic Church. Since it's my country I rule it, and the rules in that country are Catholic. I want a Catholic state in which Catholic morality, theology and everything are the norm and I want those who share this view with me to come with me and to live within my Catholic state in which we can all have a beautiful and safe Catholic environment to march with it towards Heaven.

Those who do not share this view are to be expelled from my country, not killing, not torturing into it, just being thrown away since they do not want to fight for salvation in a salvation-headed state they do not have anything to do within it.

Sword of the Lord · Nov 27, 2015

I'd like to say yes, but honestly, it didn't work before. History cannot be ignored. Anytime the Catholic Church has had power such as this, people have been murdered. I don't like the idea of being killed for being a heretic.

benedictaoo · Nov 27, 2015

An

MikeK said:
Yes, with some caveats.

I would vote for a candidate or party that held The same positions as the Church, including being against the death penalty, abortion, and euthanasia, and for streamlined and expanded immigration, welcoming of refugees without regard to their religion, stronger gun control laws, and so on. Not only would I vote for such a candidate, I try to contact my representatives and ask them to support those issues that the Church supports and oppose those that the Church opposes. It is not enough to begrudgingly vote for perceived lesser evils, we need to make our preferences known to our potential representatives ahead of time and make our voices heard.

My ideal preference would not be for a Catholic theocracy but a democratically elected government that consisted of men and women who held to all of the moral teachings of the Church. I would strongly prefer an ecclesiocracy to a theocracy, but I would accept and rather like a theocracy.

And against gay marriage... Let's not leave that out.

benedictaoo · Nov 27, 2015

Mikhael Disciple of Christ said:
I'd like to say yes, but honestly, it didn't work before. History cannot be ignored. Anytime the Catholic Church has had power such as this, people have been murdered. I don't like the idea of being killed for being a heretic.

The US bishops would not be in favor of that?? They would be against the DP. Why would you think the US bishops would model themselves after the Church of the dark ages? They would not jail or kill you if you held different beliefs. We just would not make laws based on those wrong beliefs, like gays marrying.

MikeK · Nov 27, 2015

benedictaoo said:
An

And against gay marriage... Let's not leave that out.

Absolutely!

Sword of the Lord · Nov 27, 2015

benedictaoo said:
The US bishops would not be in favor of that?? They would be against the DP. Why would you think the US bishops would model themselves after the Church of the dark ages? They would not jail or kill you if you held different beliefs. We just would not make laws based on those wrong beliefs, like gays marrying.

I don't know. The RCC didn't start off by killing heretics. I feel like they would devolve into this again over time. We're better off with the two being separate. We will live in a Christian theocracy in Heaven.

benedictaoo · Nov 27, 2015

Mikhael Disciple of Christ said:
I don't know. The RCC didn't start off by killing heretics. I feel like they would devolve into this again over time. We're better off with the two being separate. We will live in a Christian theocracy in Heaven.

In the United States?

Sword of the Lord · Nov 27, 2015

benedictaoo said:
In the United States?

The US wouldn't exist as we know it.

LoAmmi · Nov 27, 2015

benedictaoo said:
The US bishops would not be in favor of that?? They would be against the DP. Why would you think the US bishops would model themselves after the Church of the dark ages? They would not jail or kill you if you held different beliefs. We just would not make laws based on those wrong beliefs, like gays marrying.

It's an escalation of power though, which is what tends to happen in these types of situations. That would be the key worry about it. Wryetui above wrote a very scary vision of his version of a theocracy. Would that fly with the US Bishops or the Pope? No, not right now. But that can change as time goes on and if enough hard line people get in power, you'd have all Jews and Muslims and whatever deported from the country or, worse, have ghettos and the like setup so that they are segregated from the correct people. There's a lot of potential for corruption when there is nobody to challenge ideas.

Genersis · Nov 27, 2015

Theocracy in practice may not necessarily be a terrible thing, it depends on the religion it's based on and how it's beliefs translate into law.
Though much like Communism, all of it's real world implementations, to my knowledge, have been characterised by persecution and corruption to varying degrees(can there ever been a system free of such I wonder).

Communism(again, to my knowledge) is a utopian ideal, similar to anarchy in it's statelessness, instead based on communities of equals and the common good through shared resources; impossible to achieve in the real world, at least in my opinion.
Theocracy I have a feeling is similarly utopian.
Makes me wonder if there are further parallels, but I'm not interested in turning this into a thread about communism.

Soyeong · Nov 27, 2015

No one should be forced to become a Christian or to pretend to be one. If God had wanted to force us to follow Him, then he could have just not given us free will. I would be in favor of a theocracy based on God's law, but citizenship would be voluntary.

Cos-play · Nov 28, 2015

The question is disingenuous
It's construction is intentionally provocative
The answer is no

LivingWordUnity · Nov 28, 2015

Cos-play said:
The question is disingenuous
It's construction is intentionally provocative
The answer is no

I don't think it's very "provocative," but thanks for answering the question.

benedictaoo · Nov 28, 2015

A Catholic government would simply be to follow the 10 commandments.

Question for Catholics: Would you approve of it if America ever became a Catholic theocracy?

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