*trigger warning* vegan w/history of ED?

Sep 19, 2015
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I recently went to a "Depression recovery program" that also claims to treat eating disorders. Because my labs were too high and showed I am on the "high end of normal" for weight and at risk for prediabtes and have high cholesterol for my age, they put me on a vegan diet. What I don't like is they basically see foods as "good" or "Bad" (Like sugar), we really don't get that many calories, though we supposedly get the "good" calories and not the "bad" ones from meat, cheese, etc., I also am supposed to exercise an hour a day....is this too rigid? I think so. How do I fight back? Soon as I Turn 18,I'm getting my own nutritionist (funny they didn't have one at the program....:-\)
 

johndoo

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There are health benefits to the vegan diet but it is very difficult to do well ( get enough protein).
I'm not sure what evidence there is regarding the vegan diet in relationship to weight loss and mood.
There is data to show benefit with fish oil and mood, so if you like fish you could show them that data as a reason to include seafood.
I assume that this is an outpatient program (you aren't hospitalized). So you can take their recommendations as advice and do what you choose. That is what you will have to do the rest of your life. There are lots of "experts" around us.

Have you asked your parents to consider a different program?
The data suggests that people who lose weight and keep it off exercise 45-60 min per day.
To get the mood benefit from exercise, you have to do at least moderate amounts of exercise.
The key is doing things you enjoy. Some people also split it up , 30 min in the AM and 30 min in the PM to make it easier.
I hope your mood is doing better.
 
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Sep 19, 2015
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Thanks I am doing much better.

The problem is my parent's are pretty strict, and it's hard to get away from doing the aspects of the program. they literally spent thousands of dollars to get me there, and so seeing me walk away from it is hard for them (especially because they believe if I do everything the program reccomends, I'll be cured in 20 weeks)

The problem with fish is the toxins that are supposedly in them. according to this doc's book, you actually get higher levels of omega 3 from plant foods like kale and spinach. I suppose that may be true.

I just don't like the idea of foods being labeled as "good" (like kale) and "bad" (like oils, sugars, dairy, etc.,), and snacking labeled as "bad."

I tried to get them to let me do dbt, a type of therapy that has a 80 % success rate, but they won't even let me read books about dbt. They said this program has a 99.7 success rate (Idk where the doc is getting those statistics tho), so why would I want to follow another program? I've tried to get them to understand my beliefs about diet, about music (according to the program, classical music is the only "good" type of music for mood), about faith, and about the internet (I'm supposed to take a 3 month break to "reset" my brain. I researched it. The reboot was originally for people addicted to inappropriate things online. It normally takes 66 days to develop a good habit, not 90). But they won't listen to the "world's" research, only what this doctor (whose not even a psychiatrist) has to say. (I read one of his books, copyrighted in 2011. most of the research in the book is from the 1980's-1990s, early 2000's. When I brought this up, my parents said old research is sometimes less "biased." Who knows....)

So, I'm kinda stuck with the diet. I don't mind a lot of the recipees, really, I'd just like to find a way to be less restrictive in what I eat. I turn 18 in six months and then I'm getting my own nutritionist :D
 
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Ada Lovelace

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It made my brows shoot up and then scrunch in confusion and concern when reading about you being compelled to adhere to a vegan diet as part of a treatment plan for depression, especially since you have a history of ED. Though there are benefits to being a vegan (to yourself as well as to animals and the environment) it requires a considerable amount of dedication to meal-planning and meticulous attention to your nutrition to ensure you are eating healthily. I don't think anyone should ever be mandated to follow a vegan diet unless there it is vitally imperative for medical reasons because it is something that is so intimately person and entails not just what you consume but what consumes your time and focus. Many health professionals who specialize in treating eating disorders and patients with a history of it actually strongly advise against the vegan diet, especially in adolescent patients. The restrictive nature of the diet can not only lead to vitamin deficiencies that can exacerbate mental health conditions and an overall sense of wellness, but it can condition the mind to limit the intake of food in a way that can trigger eating disorders. They encourage patients to expand their food repertoire rather than to limit it.

The dietitian who founded the eating disorder treatment program at Dartmouth is actually so adamant about the possible downfalls of the vegetarian and vegan diet and how it can become a ruse for eating disorders that she controversially tells parents to not allow their teenage kids to follow it. My own parents have given me far more liberties with my diet, though they have remained vigilant about making sure I'm getting the proper nourishment. I became a vegetarian when I was nine after spending a few weeks on a farm and bonding with the animals. My parents thought it was just going to be a phase, but I haven't had a bite of meat in eight years. They discussed it with my doctor and had me see a nutritionist to devise a healthy eating plan, and continue to make me have regular blood work to test my nutrient levels. When I became a vegan they did strenuously object, not because they worried I'd develop an eating disorder but because it is so rigid, and I was already underweight. My stepmom is a pediatrician who focuses in adolescent medicine, and was very vocal about how she felt it wasn't wise for me. I stubbornly persisted with it for a while, but I also feel strained by the diet because it was so laborious to check to make sure that everything I put in my mouth was free of all dairy, eggs, and honey. Staples of my diet like Greek yogurt were cut, eating at school was a chore because most of the vegetarian meals weren't vegan, and even occasional snacks like Skittles were off limits because they contained some animal product. My BMI dropped below 16 on my 5'9 frame. I definitely began to feel healthier and more free when I reverted to simply being a vegetarian. I could just eat sensibly without obsessively looking up the ingredients for each food item or asking the server about it.

Psychiatrists have also expressed concerns about how the vegan diet can worsen depression. Here's some research on it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ Again, if done properly with a lot of care it can be positive to your health, but you have to be careful to make sure you're getting the nutrients that you need, and also maintaining a healthy attitude about food. It's worrisome to me that they label foods as bad or good. Feelings such as guilt shouldn't be attached to what we eat, but they often are. We need to be mindful about our overall diet and ensuring that the majority of our meals are nourishing, but not get hung up on what's good or bad and instead focus on moderation and sensibility.

DBT and CBT actually can be very helpful, so you are wise to do your research. I would continue to do research and make sure your sources are credible and respectable. Perhaps if you showed it to your parents and really presented your case about why you have objections to the current program they'd see how you're trying to take ownership of your health and will give you more control over it. Is the program that you're on religion-based? I do sympathize with your situation. I'm 17 and though and sometimes lock horns with my parents over health-related issues. I don't have depression or an eating disorder, but I have some endocrine problems and they can be a bit overbearing. I appreciate all they do, but I'm also ready to be 18. :) Best wishes to you!
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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I'm a long time vegan, but I would say that veganism is not at all a diet, and in fact there are many different ways of eating vegan. It's simply a moral philosophy that animals don't belong to us.
If you subscribe to that thinking, it's not hard to tailor your eating to be both vegan and nutritionally adequate for your lifestyle, health needs, and goals. However, if you don't follow the philosophy of veganism, or are told that vegan diets are more restrictive than just not eating animal products (e.g. you have to avoid sugar, wheat, cooked foods, processed foods, etc...none of which are required of vegans) it's hard to jump into it. While I'm happy to see people eating less or no animal products, people who have the wrong idea about veganism often see it as only a failed diet attempt and give it up.
I'd suggest that if health and weight loss are your main concerns, you first look at what ways of eating are best and most feasible. If the philosophy of veganism also appeals to you, then you can learn to make your chosen approach (whether it be high carb, low carb, low sugar, no processed foids, etc..) vegan. I think it's better to do that then deciding veganism is not for you based on a specific, restrictive vegan diet.
 
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citizenthom

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First of all, Christian to Christian, I have to say that at the end of the day you should respect your parents' decisions for you as a child. However I also hope to add some constructive optimism to your struggle.

I just turned 30 and I have struggled with weight gain, depression, and prediabetic symptoms since age 16. Since you seem to know the medical jargon I will tell you my cholesterol was consistently over 300, my triglycerides as high as 500 (yes, 5 and two zeroes), and my fasting blood sugar hovered around 120.

I recently started a diet that is almost as restrictive as yours except I am allowed poultry and certain fish (the ones that are less likely to contain toxins like mercury, which is actually a pretty large list). No red meat, no dairy, no starches (not even yellow squash, a semi-starchy vegetable), no FRUIT for the first three weeks, limited nuts, rice, and beans. Maximum 1,300 calories/day (it's 1,200 for women). Keep in mind my two favorite things before I started were red meat and cheese. I have about $1,000 worth of grilling and smoking equipment and eat my steak bloody and my pork pulled. I was spending about $20/week on JUST good cheese--the kind that smells like feet but tastes like heaven. But I had topped 300 pounds, and I was desperate to get rid of the pounds before they literally killed me.

I feel better right now than I have in my entire life. Just two weeks into the diet my cholesterol was down to normal range for the first time in my life, and all my other markers were within normal range. I am down about ten pounds, body fat percentage down three points (muscle has gone UP BTW). And my mood is substantially better than it has EVER been. The reason is that blood sugar dis-regulation does in fact contribute to depression and anxiety as a matter of pure nutrition.

Now I will admit I am not 100% sold on some of the other parts of the program I am on, like the "detoxification" talk that sounds rather like hooey. But the reality is that for those of us predisposed to diabetes and weight gain, diet is a MAJOR factor and foods that are common in the American diet are just plain not good for US, specifically. I imagine it is a much different pain for a younger person that a married thirty-year-old lawyer. There is peer pressure, constant temptation, maybe even teasing.

What I can tell you is that medically the diet is sound for your situation AS LONG as they are giving you sufficient protein from non-animal sources--which is the biggest challenge for pure vegans.

There is a great calorie and nutrition counter out there for phones/mobile (they also have a website you can use on PC) called MyFitnessPal. It will help you track whether you are getting sufficient protein for someone with your age, body type, and weight loss goals. It may also help you demonstrate to your parents if (IF) you are not getting enough protein from the pure vegan diet, in which case you may need to add poultry and "clean" fish back into your diet.

I would also encourage you to learn to cook for yourself. The vegan diet is not nearly as limiting as it seems if you get creative. You still have the whole world of spices available to you, and most dairy-based recipes can be modified to use coconut milk or a nut milk to stay within the diet but get good flavors. Thai is especially great: everything tastes great in a good curry sauce.

I hope this has been helpful and encouraging. I also hope you are able to approach the diet with more optimism hearing from someone who is seeing results I WISH I had achieved at your age. PM me if I can be of any help, e.g. with recipe ideas and the like.
 
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miss-a

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The truth is that foods are good or bad. One writer actually refers to the bad ones as "food-like substances" because there are things marketed as food that have no value to the body and often harm it, so they don't fit the definition of food.

Having said that it's not that hard to avoid the bad guys and still eat a healthy diet. A fresh orange is super yummy. A milk shake made of unsweetened organic soymilk, fresh fruit, some vegan protein powder and sweetened with stevia is great tasting and great for you. Nachos with baked organic corn chips and vegan cheese, and lots of jalepenos of course, excellent!

So, yeah, some foods are indeed bad, but there are plenty of good ones that will meet your needs. Remember, as a vegan you'll likely need to depend on vegan protein powders.
 
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Good luck with the diet. Glad to read that you are doing better. It does seem to be little mentioned on how foods can effect our mood and personality. I know for me two changes made a difference in lifting my mood. Those were getting some sensible sun exposure a few times a week. Poets and musicians write about being in the sun having an uplifting feeling. it really is true I found. The other change was avoiding grains. I found that helpful. Avoiding wheat in particular i feel helped the most. i feel badly and am disturbed about commercial farm animal raising practices. I do eat grass fed meats, liver and occasionally some grass fed dairy though. A health wheat free sight I visit often posts articles with testimonials and pictures. Depression lifting is a common mention. One examples on that ~

Depression lifted, no more stomach pains, 90 pounds down!

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2013/08/depression-lifted-no-more-stomach-pains-90-pounds-down/
 
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