Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment

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Waiting to see if 'Open Heart' agrees with the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur on this:

"... In the Christian system the day of rest has been transferred from the Sabbath to the Sunday. ..." - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03158a.htm

If not, they might want to consider a few things in Canon Law, in regards latae sententiae.
 
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Open Heart

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You ought know your own Romish sources better, but as stated earlier, they are little read by their own:
"Roman Catholic" is perfectly acceptable, although it is slang (Catholic is the correct term). Romish and Romanism are clearly meant to put down, and that is not only against CF rules, it is unChristian.

I'm placing you on ignore. I will no longer see your goading posts, so don't expect any future answers from me.
 
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"Roman Catholic" is perfectly acceptable, although it is slang (Catholic is the correct term). Romish and Romanism are clearly meant to put down, and that is not only against CF rules, it is unChristian.
You have not been able to demonstrate your standard of what [capital] "C"[atholic], nor "C"[hristian] is yet. Is the "CF rules" your standard in determining?

As stated, you do not know your own Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur sources, having never read, nor researched in depth:

"... From about the year 1580, besides the term papist, employed with opprobrious intent, the followers of the old religion were often called Romish or Roman Catholics. ..." - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm

I'm placing you on ignore.
Why? You were not responding in any meaningful way to the evidences, of both scripture and historical, and neither to the direct questions placed before you even before now.

I will no longer see your goading posts, so don't expect any future answers from me.
I would suspect you will change your mind later, but that is ok, I wouldn't mind.
 
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Having been "Roman Catholic", for quite some time, perhaps it might behoove others to consider listening to what I have to share from those sources.

Even on this subject of the Sabbath, the prophecies are already fulfilling.

Written over 100 years ago [and long before that in scripture itself] by the prophetess/messenger of the LORD sent by God, in the book the Great Controversy, by sister Ellen G. White:

"... [Page 589] Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields his creatures, and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what he has declared that he would, he will withdraw his blessings from the earth, and remove his protecting care from those who are rebelling against his law, and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some, in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others, and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them.

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and [Page 589-590]desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hail-storms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. “The earth mourneth and fadeth away,” “the haughty people ... do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.” [Isaiah 24:4, 5.]

And then the great deceiver will persuade men that those who serve God are causing these evils. The class that have provoked the displeasure of Heaven will charge all their troubles upon those whose obedience to God’s commandments is a perpetual reproof to transgressors. It will be declared that men are offending God by the violation of the Sunday-sabbath, that this sin has brought calamities which will not cease until Sunday observance shall be strictly enforced, and that those who present the claims of the fourth commandment, thus destroying reverence for Sunday, are troublers of the people, preventing their restoration to divine favor and temporal prosperity. Thus the accusation urged of old against the servant of God will be repeated, and upon grounds equally well established. “And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father’s house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the Lord, and thou hast followed Baalim.” [1 Kings 18:17, 18.] As the wrath of the people shall be excited by false charges, they will pursue a course toward God’s ambassadors very similar to that which apostate Israel pursued toward Elijah." [The Great Controversy 1888; page 589-590] - http://text.egwwritings.org/publica...g=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=589&

"... Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world. ..." - [Last Day Events; Page 135 & Testimonies for the Church, Volume 6; Page 395] - http://text.egwwritings.org/publica...ng=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=135 and http://text.egwwritings.org/publica...ng=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=395

Now, let us see this today, for it is fulfilling today in your ears/eyes/lives:

"... Keeping stores open on Sunday is not beneficial for society: Pope Francis

Pope Francis says opening businesses on Sundays is not beneficial for society because the priority should be 'not economic but human,' and that the stress should be on families and friendships, not commercial relationships. ..." - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-francis-sundays-article-1.1856433


"... You need & deserve a secular sabbath ...

... on Sunday afternoon ...

... Perhaps it’s no surprise that more and more people, whatever their religion — or lack of religion — are turning to the ancient idea of the Sabbath. Even God, after all, rested on the seventh day. ...

... But perhaps the best luxury of all is one day off every seven. ...

... The only word in the Ten Commandments for which the adjective “holy” is used, let’s not forget, is the Sabbath. ..." - http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/pico-iyer-deserve-secular-sabbath-article-1.2232619

"... Sunday as a Mark of Christian Unity ...

... In order to fully appreciate Sunday as a mark of Christian unity we must expand our definition of unity." - http://www.ldausa.org/lda/sunday-as-a-mark-of-christian-unity/

"... The Pope’s powerful encyclical calls for a common response to the critical threat climate change poses to our common home. His plea for all religions to work together reflects the urgency of the challenge. ... The devastating impacts of climate change – like heat waves, damaging floods, coastal sea level rise and historic droughts – are already taking place, threatening the habitat all humans and other creatures depend on to survive. We have a responsibility to meet this challenge and prevent the worst impacts. ..." - http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2015/06/243982.htm

"... [President Obama] I welcome His Holiness Pope Francis's encyclical, and deeply admire the Pope's decision to make the case - clearly, powerfully, and with the full moral authority of his position - for action on global climate change. ... I believe the United States must be a leader in this effort ... it is my hope that all world leaders--and all God's children--will reflect on Pope Francis's call to come together to care for our common home." - https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/06/18/statement-president-pope-francis’s-encyclical

[by the way, no one says "full moral authority" like that in favour of the See of Rome, unless they, in some way, work for and/or are benefited by, the See of Rome.]​

For more citations see - http://www.markofbeast.net/page3.htm



"... Let's make Sunday, a day of rest, for God's sake. ...

... This is what Sabbath is about. It creates the space in our lives for us to remember who we are. To remember that we are players in a different story.

Americans work hard. Maybe too hard.

This is an invitation to Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, and Christians.

One day a week. Rest. For God’s sake. ..." - http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/04/22/let-make-sunday-day-rest-for-gods-sake.html

Read Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13.
 
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Consider, even Francis's encyclical Laudato Si - http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html

"Praise be to you, my Lord, through our Sister, Mother Earth ..."​

I hope all do realize that "he" just connected the 'gospel' [of Rome] to the [save the] planet and environmental salvation ideology. It is nothing new with Rome, but now more prominent, and open.

"... This is why the earth herself, burdened and laid waste, is among the most abandoned and maltreated of our poor; she “groans in travail” (Rom 8:22) ..."​

For in it, "he" ties the worship of the Romish Sunday [false Sabbath] and their so-called 'gospel' of religious [not secular] 'humanism' ["an authentic human ecology" [Francis I. Laudato Si. May 24, 2015] and "a truly human life and to fulfill their family obligations in a worthy manner" [John XXIII.Mater Et Magistra. 1961]], and the violation thereof, to natural disasters [called global warming, etc] and thus says to all the people of earth:

"... This sister now cries out to us because of the harm we have inflicted on her by our irresponsible use and abuse of the goods with which God has endowed her ..."

"... Now, faced as we are with global environmental deterioration, I wish to address every person living on this planet. ..."

"... human life is itself a gift which must be defended from various forms of debasement. ..."

"... Authentic human development has a moral character. ..."

"... Our goal is not to amass information or to satisfy curiosity, but rather to become painfully aware, to dare to turn what is happening to the world into our own personal suffering and thus to discover what each of us can do about it. ..."

"... 48. The human environment and the natural environment deteriorate together; we cannot adequately combat environmental degradation unless we attend to causes related to human and social degradation. ... Today, however, we have to realize that a true ecological approach always becomes a social approach; it must integrate questions of justice in debates on the environment, so as to hear both the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor. ..."

"... Here we see how environmental deterioration and human and ethical degradation are closely linked. ..."

"... Still, we can see signs that things are now reaching a breaking point, due to the rapid pace of change and degradation; these are evident in large-scale natural disasters as well as social and even financial crises, for the world’s problems cannot be analyzed or explained in isolation. ... “If we scan the regions of our planet, we immediately see that humanity has disappointed God’s expectations”.[35]"

"... Concern for the environment thus needs to be joined to a sincere love for our fellow human beings and an unwavering commitment to resolving the problems of society. ..."

"... When we speak of the “environment”, what we really mean is a relationship existing between nature and the society which lives in it. ..."

"... We are faced not with two separate crises, one environmental and the other social, but rather with one complex crisis which is both social and environmental. ..."

"... We urgently need a humanism capable of bringing together the different fields of knowledge, including economics, in the service of a more integral and integrating vision. ..."​

The connection to Moral Law ["indisputable truths to guide our lives"]:

"... Pope Benedict asked us to recognize that the natural environment has been gravely damaged by our irresponsible behaviour. The social environment has also suffered damage. Both are ultimately due to the same evil: the notion that there are no indisputable truths to guide our lives, and hence human freedom is limitless. ..."

:... At one extreme, we find those who doggedly uphold the myth of progress and tell us that ecological problems will solve themselves simply with the application of new technology and without any need for ethical considerations or deep change. ..."
The connection of natural disasters [called "extreme weather events"] to "lifestyle" [the way one lives, ie does all things "human", such as "work", "rest", and "worship" [keep reading] and "when" they do those things according to Romish policies]:
"... A very solid scientific consensus indicates that we are presently witnessing a disturbing warming of the climatic system. In recent decades this warming has been accompanied by a constant rise in the sea level and, it would appear, by an increase of extreme weather events, even if a scientifically determinable cause cannot be assigned to each particular phenomenon. Humanity is called to recognize the need for changes of lifestyle, production and consumption, in order to combat this warming or at least the human causes which produce or aggravate it. ..."

[Thus the mentality of Pharoah [King of the South, Daniel 11:40, Secular Humanism/Atheism, etc, Egypt being the World] is that "get you unto your burdens." [Exodus5:4] [work, work, work, and no rest, "... Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens." [Exodus 5:5]] is what is harming the environment, and so because of this supposed violation of [Rome's] "Moral" law, the false Ten Commandments of the Traditional Catechetical Formula, in "human" "lifestyle", with the [false sabbath] Sunday being violated. This will be the reason given for the repeated calls to join in the "new and universal solidarity". They have called for, and will call again for legislation in all the world [beginning in the USA first at state, local levels, then at a national level, following thereafter to all nations] to be passed to rest on Sundays, that the environment might be saved, and it will "look good" to swallow [think Genesis], but it is wickedness in disguise [think serpent], even as that messenger of light [2 Corinthians 11:14] calls for "peace, peace" when there is no peace with the violation of God's Law, Exodus 20:1-17 in the Holy 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, and all the others. Man's law or God's Law, which you will obey? Which is sin to violate?]
"... Today, the analysis of environmental problems cannot be separated from the analysis of human, family, work-related and urban contexts, nor from how individuals relate to themselves, which leads in turn to how they relate to others and to the environment. There is an interrelation between ecosystems and between the various spheres of social interaction ..."

"... If everything is related, then the health of a society’s institutions has consequences for the environment and the quality of human life. “Every violation of solidarity and civic friendship harms the environment”.[116] In this sense, social ecology is necessarily institutional, and gradually extends to the whole of society, from the primary social group, the family, to the wider local, national and international communities. Within each social stratum, and between them, institutions develop to regulate human relationships. Anything which weakens those institutions has negative consequences, such as injustice, violence and loss of freedom. ... Whether in the administration of the state, the various levels of civil society, or relationships between individuals themselves, lack of respect for the law is becoming more common."

"... Human ecology also implies another profound reality: the relationship between human life and the moral law, which is inscribed in our nature and is necessary for the creation of a more dignified environment. ..."

"... Outstanding among those groups is the family, as the basic cell of society. Finally, the common good calls for social peace, the stability and security provided by a certain order which cannot be achieved without particular concern for distributive justice; whenever this is violated, violence always ensues. Society as a whole, and the state in particular, are obliged to defend and promote the common good. ..."

"... Doomsday predictions can no longer be met with irony or disdain. We may well be leaving to coming generations debris, desolation and filth. The pace of consumption, waste and environmental change has so stretched the planet’s capacity that our contemporary lifestyle, unsustainable as it is, can only precipitate catastrophes, such as those which even now periodically occur in different areas of the world. ..."

"... The mindset which leaves no room for sincere concern for the environment is the same mindset which lacks concern for the inclusion of the most vulnerable members of society. ..."

"... Disinterested concern for others, and the rejection of every form of self-centeredness and self-absorption, are essential if we truly wish to care for our brothers and sisters and for the natural environment. These attitudes also attune us to the moral imperative of assessing the impact of our every action and personal decision on the world around us. If we can overcome individualism, we will truly be able to develop a different lifestyle and bring about significant changes in society. ..."

[ie, if anyone is seen to be going against this 'all get together' and especially the plot of protecting the environment through Sunday sacredness [rest] to be legislated by laws/government, will be seen as a "mindset" against the "common good", and eventually a danger to all, ie, "selfish", "self-centered", "self-absorbed", "individualistic", and thus a threat [terrorist/fundamentalist] to the "moral" [church] 'common good' as well as to the global commonality ["solidarity"] [state] of societal, local, National and International interests along all lines, ecological, technological, economical, etc.]​
 
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The tie-in with "sacrament" [thus dealing with salvation, according to Rome]:

"... As Christians, we are also called “to accept the world as a sacrament of communion ..."

"... So what they all need is an “ecological conversion” ..."
Assissi and others pantheism, and panentheism [though they say "do not possess His fullness", do obviously then in some degree] and mysticisim/contemplation [possession]:

"... By contrast, if we feel intimately united with all that exists, then sobriety and care will well up spontaneously. ..."

"... Sir Brother Sun ... Sister Moon and the stars ... Brother Wind ... Sister Water ... Brother Fire ..."

"... 88. The bishops of Brazil have pointed out that nature as a whole not only manifests God but is also a locus of his presence. The Spirit of life dwells in every living creature and calls us to enter into relationship with him.[65] ..."

"... The very flowers of the field and the birds which his human eyes contemplated and admired are now imbued with his radiant presence. ..."

"... The universe unfolds in God, who fills it completely. Hence, there is a mystical meaning to be found in a leaf, in a mountain trail, in a dewdrop, in a poor person’s face. [159] ... also to discover God in all things. ... to encounter God in creatures outside ourselves ..."

"... This is not because the finite things of this world are really divine, but because the mystic experiences the intimate connection between God and all beings, and thus feels that “all things are God”. [162] ..."

[If "all things are God", sin, sinner, wickedness would also be included.]
"... All-powerful God, you are present in the whole universe
and in the smallest of your creatures. ..."

[God is not in the sinner.]​

A citation of "Scripture", [Francis I] cites apocryphal works, Wisdom and Sirach.

False baptism:

"... Water poured over the body of a child in Baptism is a sign of new life. ..."
Culmination of errors [in the Roman transubstantiation ["... unsurpassable expression when God himself became man and gave himself as food for his creatures ..."], cast to the earth] in the Roman Sunday Mass, thus desecration of Sunday is destruction of the Eucharist, which is destruction to the family, ecology, environment, etc, etc:

"... It is in the Eucharist that all that has been created finds its greatest exaltation. ... He comes not from above, but from within ... Son, present in the Eucharist ... Thus, the Eucharist is also a source of light and motivation for our concerns for the environment, directing us to be stewards of all creation."

"... 237. On Sunday, our participation in the Eucharist has special importance. Sunday, like the Jewish Sabbath, is meant to be a day which heals our relationships with God, with ourselves, with others and with the world. Sunday is the day of the Resurrection, the “first day” of the new creation, whose first fruits are the Lord’s risen humanity, the pledge of the final transfiguration of all created reality. It also proclaims “man’s eternal rest in God”.[168] In this way, Christian spirituality incorporates the value of relaxation and festivity. We tend to demean contemplative rest as something unproductive and unnecessary, but this is to do away with the very thing which is most important about work: its meaning. We are called to include in our work a dimension of receptivity and gratuity, which is quite different from mere inactivity. Rather, it is another way of working, which forms part of our very essence. It protects human action from becoming empty activism; it also prevents that unfettered greed and sense of isolation which make us seek personal gain to the detriment of all else. The law of weekly rest forbade work on the seventh day, “so that your ox and your donkey may have rest, and the son of your maidservant, and the stranger, may be refreshed” (Ex 23:12). Rest opens our eyes to the larger picture and gives us renewed sensitivity to the rights of others. And so the day of rest, centred on the Eucharist, sheds it light on the whole week, and motivates us to greater concern for nature and the poor. ..."​

New World Order, the 'gospel' of "change" and "revolution":

"... The urgent challenge to protect our common home includes a concern to bring the whole human family together to seek a sustainable and integral development, for we know that things can change. ..."

"... We require a new and universal solidarity. ..."

"... We need to strengthen the conviction that we are one single human family. ..."

"... An authentic humanity, calling for a new synthesis ..."

"... All of this shows the urgent need for us to move forward in a bold cultural revolution. ..."

"... We need to develop a new synthesis ..."

"... Others will then no longer be seen as strangers, but as part of a “we” which all of us are working to create. ..."

"... Interdependence obliges us to think of one world with a common plan. ..."

"... A global consensus is essential for confronting the deeper problems, which cannot be resolved by unilateral actions on the part of individual countries. ..."
Marian blasphemy:

"... 241. Mary, the Mother who cared for Jesus, now cares with maternal affection and pain for this wounded world. Just as her pierced heart mourned the death of Jesus, so now she grieves for the sufferings of the crucified poor and for the creatures of this world laid waste by human power. Completely transfigured, she now lives with Jesus, and all creatures sing of her fairness. She is the Woman, “clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars” (Rev 12:1). Carried up into heaven, she is the Mother and Queen of all creation. In her glorified body, together with the Risen Christ, part of creation has reached the fullness of its beauty. She treasures the entire life of Jesus in her heart (cf. Lk 2:19,51), and now understands the meaning of all things. Hence, we can ask her to enable us to look at this world with eyes of wisdom. ..."​

Re-education [read brainwashing/mind control/possession] for “ecological citizenship” by a process of "adequate" [read ''force' of law' in schooling [yes, your children will be/and already are being taught this] means:

"... If the laws are to bring about significant, long-lasting effects, the majority of the members of society must be adequately motivated to accept them, and personally transformed to respond. ..."

"... Ecological education can take place in a variety of settings: at school, in families, in the media, in catechesis and elsewhere. Good education plants seeds when we are young, and these continue to bear fruit throughout life. ..."

"... Because the stakes are so high, we need institutions empowered to impose penalties for damage inflicted on the environment. ..."​

Legislation [laws to be passed], and New ["moral"] Leadership to control it:

"... We lack leadership capable of striking out on new paths and meeting the needs of the present with concern for all and without prejudice towards coming generations. The establishment of a legal framework which can set clear boundaries and ensure the protection of ecosystems has become indispensable; otherwise, the new power structures based on the techno-economic paradigm may overwhelm not only our politics but also freedom and justice. ..."​

The anti-scriptural lie of [theistic] "biological evolution" and "emergence":

"... Although change is part of the working of complex systems, the speed with which human activity has developed contrasts with the naturally slow pace of biological evolution. ..."

"... Human beings, even if we postulate a process of evolution, also possess a uniqueness which cannot be fully explained by the evolution of other open systems. ..."

"... The sheer novelty involved in the emergence of a personal being within a material universe presupposes a direct action of God ..."
The denial of literal history of Genesis and the confusion of "creation accounts" [plural]:

"... The creation accounts in the book of Genesis contain, in their own symbolic and narrative language ..."

"... The biblical accounts of creation ..."
Extinction of species:

"... Because of us, thousands of species will no longer give glory to God by their very existence, nor convey their message to us. We have no such right. ..."​
 
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Tied to "the seventh day", "the" [definite] Sabbath Commandment [but notice they also call it "a" [indefinite] Sabbath], and calling the Bible "biblical tradition":

"... Along these same lines, rest on the seventh day is meant not only for human beings, but also so “that your ox and your donkey may have rest” (Ex 23:12). ..."

"... Although “the wickedness of man was great in the earth” (Gen 6:5) and the Lord “was sorry that he had made man on the earth” (Gen 6:6), nonetheless, through Noah, who remained innocent and just, God decided to open a path of salvation. In this way he gave humanity the chance of a new beginning. All it takes is one good person to restore hope! The biblical tradition clearly shows that this renewal entails recovering and respecting the rhythms inscribed in nature by the hand of the Creator. We see this, for example, in the law of the Sabbath. On the seventh day, God rested from all his work. He commanded Israel to set aside each seventh day as a day of rest, a Sabbath, (cf. Gen 2:2-3; Ex 16:23; 20:10). ..."
Thus "relationship" [family time, thus rest day [they promote their false sabbath of Sunday] together] tied to environmental and ecological "crisis":

"... If the present ecological crisis is one small sign of the ethical, cultural and spiritual crisis of modernity, we cannot presume to heal our relationship with nature and the environment without healing all fundamental human relationships. ..."
Thus "lifestyle", "work" and "rest" affect relationships, ecology, environment, and the people need to band together to put "pressure" on legislators [law-makers]:

"... We were created with a vocation to work. ..."

"... A change in lifestyle could bring healthy pressure to bear on those who wield political, economic and social power. ..."

"... Today, in a word, “the issue of environmental degradation challenges us to examine our lifestyle”. [147] ..."
The Great Controversy again:

"... Those who honor the Bible Sabbath will be denounced as enemies of law and order, as breaking down the moral restraints of society, causing anarchy and corruption, and calling down the judgments of God upon the earth. Their conscientious scruples will be pronounced obstinacy, stubbornness, and contempt of authority. They will be accused of disaffection toward the government. Ministers who deny the obligation of the divine law will present from the pulpit the duty of yielding obedience to the civil authorities as ordained of God. In legislative halls and courts of justice, commandment-keepers will be misrepresented and condemned. A false coloring will be given to their words; the worst construction will be put upon their motives.

As the Protestant churches reject the clear, scriptural arguments in defense of God’s law, they will long to silence those whose faith they cannot overthrow by the Bible. Though they blind their own eyes to the fact, they are now adopting a course which will lead to the persecution of those who conscientiously refuse to do what the rest of the Christian world are doing, and acknowledge the claims of the papal Sabbath.

The dignitaries of church and State will unite to bribe, persuade, or compel all classes to honor the Sunday. The lack of divine authority will be supplied by oppressive enactments. Political corruption is destroying love of justice and regard for truth; and even in free America, rulers and legislators, in order to secure public favor, will yield to the popular demand for a law enforcing Sunday observance. Liberty of conscience, which has cost so great a sacrifice, will no longer be respected. In the soon-coming conflict we shall see exemplified the prophet’s words: “The dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” [Revelation 12:17.] ..." [The Great Controversy 1888; Page 592; Ellen G White] - http://text.egwwritings.org/publica...ng=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=592

Going to take away your ability to burn wood and be off of 'the Grid', too bad all that incense of Rome won't be extinguished, and even your well water and spring water need "regulation or controls" [ie state level], and land lockdown [no go zones, except for the state level], and you cannot actually own anything [contrary to Scripture]:

"... People take sick, for example, from breathing high levels of smoke from fuels used in cooking or heating. ..."

"... Underground water sources in many places are threatened by the pollution produced in certain mining, farming and industrial activities, especially in countries lacking adequate regulation or controls. ..."

"... Some countries have made significant progress in establishing sanctuaries on land and in the oceans where any human intervention is prohibited which might modify their features or alter their original structures. ..."

"... The Christian tradition has never recognized the right to private property as absolute or inviolable, and has stressed the social purpose of all forms of private property. ... a social mortgage on all private property ... apart from the ownership of property ..."
The plague of blood identified:

"... Some studies warn that an acute water shortage may occur within a few decades unless urgent action is taken. The environmental repercussions could affect billions of people..."
Ha! Hypocrisy! [can anyone say, 'Inquisition'???]-

"... the array of technology which ... and other totalitarian regimes have employed to kill millions of people ..."
Blames the past errors and persecutions, etc, on "cultural limitations":

"... If a mistaken understanding of our own principles has at times led us to justify mistreating nature, to exercise tyranny over creation, to engage in war, injustice and acts of violence, we believers should acknowledge that by so doing we were not faithful to the treasures of wisdom which we have been called to protect and preserve. Cultural limitations in different eras often affected the perception of these ethical and spiritual treasures ..."
The Great Controversy again:

"... [Page 570] If we desire to understand the determined cruelty of Satan, manifested for hundreds of years, not among those who never heard of God, but in the very heart and throughout the extent of Christendom, we have only to look at the history of Romanism. Through this mammoth system of deception the prince of evil achieves his purpose of bringing dishonor to God and wretchedness to man. And as we see how he succeeds in disguising himself, and accomplishing his work through the leaders of the church, we may better understand why he has so great antipathy to the Bible. If that book is read, the mercy and love of God will be revealed; it will be seen that he lays upon men none of these heavy burdens. All that he asks is a broken and contrite heart, a humble, obedient spirit. ...

... The Romish Church now presents a fair front to the world, [Page 570-571] covering with apologies her record of horrible cruelties. She has clothed herself in Christ-like garments; but she is unchanged. Every principle of popery that existed in past ages exists today. The doctrines devised in the darkest ages are still held. Let none deceive themselves. The popery that Protestants are now so ready to honor is the same that ruled the world in the days of the Reformation, when men of God stood up, at the peril of their lives, to expose her iniquity. She possesses the same pride and arrogant assumption that lorded it over kings and princes, and claimed the prerogatives of God. Her spirit is no less cruel and despotic now than when she crushed out human liberty, and slew the saints of the Most High.

Popery is just what prophecy declared that she would be, the apostasy of the latter times. [2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4.] It is a part of her policy to assume the character which will best accomplish her purpose; but beneath the variable appearance of the chameleon, she conceals the invariable venom of the serpent. “We are not bound to keep faith and promises to heretics,” she declares. Shall this power, whose record for a thousand years is written in the blood of the saints, be now acknowledged as a part of the church of Christ?

It is not without reason that the claim has been put forth in Protestant countries, that Catholicism differs less widely from Protestantism than in former times. There has been a change; but the change is not in the papacy. Catholicism indeed resembles much of the Protestantism that now exists, because Protestantism has so greatly degenerated since the days of the reformers.

As the Protestant churches have been seeking the favor of the world, false charity has blinded their eyes. They do not see but that it is right to believe good of all evil; and as the inevitable result, they will finally believe evil of all good. Instead of standing in defense of the faith once delivered to the saints, they are now, as it were, apologizing to Rome ..." [The Great Controversy 1888; Page 570-571, selected portions; Ellen G White] - http://text.egwwritings.org/publica...ng=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=570

"... But not one is made to suffer the wrath of God until the truth has been brought home to his mind and conscience, and has been rejected. There are many who have never had an opportunity to hear the special truths for this time. The obligation of the fourth commandment has never been set before them in its true light. He who reads every heart, and tries every motive, will leave none who desire a knowledge of the truth, to be deceived as to the issues of the controversy. The decree is not to be urged upon the people blindly. Every one is to have sufficient light to make his decision intelligently.

The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty; for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the State, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God’s law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other, choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God. [See Appendix, note 13.]

Heretofore those who presented the truths of the third angel’s message have often been regarded as mere alarmists. Their predictions that religious intolerance would gain control in the United States, that church and State would unite to persecute those who keep the commandments of God, have been pronounced groundless and absurd. It has been confidently declared that this land could never become other than what it has been, the defender of religious freedom. But as the question of enforcing Sunday observance is widely agitated, the event so long doubted and disbelieved is seen to be approaching, and the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before. ..." [The Great Controversy 1888; Page 605; Ellen G White] - http://text.egwwritings.org/publica...ng=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=605
Thus I leave you with, from His own 'hand', Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, from the Francis I's own encyclical [deal with it]:

"... Doomsday predictions can no longer be met with irony or disdain ..."

"... Is it reasonable and enlightened to dismiss certain writings simply because they arose in the context of religious belief? ..."​
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
We have an annual celebration of the birth of Christ and an annual celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ. Passover is not on the resurrection of Christ - it is on the death of Christ. All of which He did "once".

But He was not raised to life "weekly" or "on a 7 day cycle" and he was not born "weekly" or on a 7 day cycle -- neither did they crucify Christ weekly - or on a 7 day cycle.

So then - that is the actual Bible on the subject of those events.

Irrefutable.

No, that's your interpretation of the Bible. Big difference.

You are not presenting any fact - just a wish that the details in the statement above were not so clear to all.

You have free will - you can choose to do that. But the readers see the point "anyway" since not one of them will doubt the fact that Christ was not born "weekly" nor did he die "weekly" nor was he raised "weekly" nor was the Passover celebrated "weekly".

I am merely stating the obvious.
 
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BobRyan said:
We have an annual celebration of the birth of Christ and an annual celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ. Passover is not on the resurrection of Christ - it is on the death of Christ. All of which He did "once".

But He was not raised to life "weekly" or "on a 7 day cycle" and he was not born "weekly" or on a 7 day cycle -- neither did they crucify Christ weekly - or on a 7 day cycle.

So then - that is the actual Bible on the subject of those events.

Irrefutable.



You are not presenting any fact - just a wish that the details in the statement above were not so clear to all.

You have free will - you can choose to do that. But the readers see the point "anyway" since not one of them will doubt the fact that Christ was not born "weekly" nor did he die "weekly" nor was he raised "weekly" nor was the Passover celebrated "weekly".

I am merely stating the obvious.
Yes, I was still awaiting scriptural evidence for the following statements made [even amidst all of the passages quoted]:

...Passover may have been a single night when God delivered the Israelites from Pharoah, but its celebration is a week long. It was STILL the feast of unleavened bread (Passover) when Jesus rose. ...
Where in scripture is passover the whole week [8 days or 7 days or 1 days, which will they choose]?
 
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That "Law" only applied to Israel. And the LORD said, "Speak to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL..." Not to the Nations. So when the Gentile churches formed, the Church had a right to choose its own day for worship, and they chose the sacred day upon which Christ rose.
Israel is Jesus, His children are His Discples, and the Holy 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, was made for the man [Adam, and thus all in Him from Genesis, Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:1-13, etc], and Christ Jesus is the Second/Last Adam [and thus all in Him are to keep it with Him, as we love Him who first loved us, John 14:15; Exodus 20:6,8-11]:

They deny who Israel is:

Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; 1 Corinthians 15:44-46

They deny who His true children are:

Isaiah 8:8-20; Hebrews 2:10-14

They deny what is in the New Covenant itself:

Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7

They deny that the true children of Israel are to keep the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God Holy:

Exodus 31:13; Acts 13, 15, 18; Revelation 1:10

They do not obey the Everlasting Gospel:

Revelation 14:6-12; Isaiah 58; Job 29; Luke 4

They turn from the Holy Commandment delivered unto them:

Exodus 20:8-11; 2 Peter 2:21

They seek to change times and laws of the Most High God, and in so doing fill the land with violence:

Daniel 7:25; Ezekiel 8:16

They trample upon the rest of the Son of God:

Genesis 1-2; Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:1-13;

God the Father, looks even now upon the wounds/scars of His own beloved Son, Jesus Christ, which was there because of the transgression of the Holy Law of God, the Ten Commandments -- do they think by crucifying afresh the son of God, and trampling upon that Law, changing it, removing it, that they shall escape the vengeance/wrath of God?
 
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BobRyan

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You have to understand that for Catholics, Easter is something that really starts on Ash Wednesday and doesn't end until Pentecost Sunday. The heart of it is Holy week, which extends from Palm Sunday, through Tridium (Holy Thursday, Good Friday, & Holy Saturday) and Resurrection Sunday. It is much more of a season than a one day event.

Passover may have been a single night when God delivered the Israelites from Pharoah, but its celebration is a week long. It was STILL the feast of unleavened bread (Passover) when Jesus rose.

It was the feast of unleavened bread for a number of days AFTER Jesus was raised AND even so the Passover and the feast were yearly events.

And we have a yearly Easter event.

But in Gen 2:1-3 God established a WEEKLY event - and reminds us of that in Ex 20:11.


At any rate, whether you think it is "sensible" or not, the proper association of Easter is to the Passover, not to some pagan festival, as I've shown you by the term Pascha.

both are yearly events. Not weekly.
 
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BobRyan

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And why would you even make that comment, knowing that I'm a Christian? And that the only kind of Christian there is, is a new covenant Christian?

When I quoted the New Covenant you kept claiming it was still future.

I then responded numerous times that the rest of us do not view it as future - but rather we view ourselves as under the New Covenant.

Are you changing your mind on that now?
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
We have an annual celebration of the birth of Christ and an annual celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ. Passover is not on the resurrection of Christ - it is on the death of Christ. All of which He did "once".

But He was not raised to life "weekly" or "on a 7 day cycle" and he was not born "weekly" or on a 7 day cycle -- neither did they crucify Christ weekly - or on a 7 day cycle.

So then - that is the actual Bible on the subject of those events.

Open Heart said:
Irrelevant. The POINT is that Christians tied the celebration (Holy Week, culminating in resurrection Sunday) with Passover.

The Bible as "irrelevant" and the traditions-of-man as all-important all-consuming -- is where we differ - since I don't believe that.


No, that's your interpretation of the Bible. Big difference.

How mean of you to say that I think the Bible is irrelevant, and how untrue, and worse that you know it not to be the case and yet chose to say it anyway. I came close to reporting this flame.

I pointed to the Bible details above - you responded that they are irrelevant and that over time the traditions of men tied the Passover to passion week.

My point was not about the yearly events - my point was about the weekly one. The Sabbath vs the annual celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ.

You can report that sort of post hoping that the mods will not look into the actual details - but that is not the most enlightened way to respond.
 
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Open Heart

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I pointed to the Bible details above - you responded that they are irrelevant and that over time the traditions of men tied the Passover to passion week.
NO, I POINTED TO YOUR POST AS IRRELEVANT. Sometimes a Bible verse is irrelevant if it is off topic to what is being discussed, but in this case your post in question didn't quote any Bible verses.
 
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You can report that sort of post hoping that the mods will not look into the actual details
What do the mods have to do with it? I haven't broken any rules. If you think I have broken any rules, please quote from the offending post. If I need to edit a post I will.
 
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BobRyan

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What do the mods have to do with it? I haven't broken any rules. If you think I have broken any rules, please quote from the offending post. If I need to edit a post I will.

Your post mentioned the idea of reporting a post - I was following up with a comment on your post - that is all. No need to edit anything.
 
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NO, I POINTED TO YOUR POST AS IRRELEVANT. Sometimes a Bible verse is irrelevant if it is off topic

My post simply listed the Bible details that we all already know and agree with - that there is nothing "weekly' in the Passover service or the birth of Christ, or the Resurrection. these were all one-time events and are already celebrated yearly.

This is not the hard part - I think you and I both agree on that point.

My point then was that since the only Bible event with a weekly cycle to it is listed in the Bible in Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 - we don't have a Bible based reason for inventing another weekly one.

Your response was of the form "the only thing that matters is that over time people eventually came up with ...."
 
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