No wonder the situation in the middle east

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If we as Christians believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead then we also believe the battle is already won.

The devil is already defeated, Christ defeated him. For having suffered and being raised up He is Lord and victor over sin, death, hell, the world, and the devil. All that was captive is set free, all that was lost is restored.

icon-of-the-resurrection.jpg


"O Death, where is your sting? O Hell, where is your victory? Christ is risen, and you are overthrown. Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen. Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice. Christ is risen, and life reigns. Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave. For Christ, being risen from the dead, is become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. To Him be glory and dominion unto ages of ages. Amen." - St. John Chrysostom, Paschal Homily

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, Christ defeated Sin and the Death it brings at the Cross, but Satan is still loose in the world, and will be until Revelation Ch4+. Then, Christ comes down from Heaven with His saints, wages war on Satan and his kingdoms, and sets up His Millennial Kingdom. Then, after the Millennium, Satan will be unleashed, and the various people will again try to wage war against Christ's Kingdom, and that's when the final judgment happens, and the universe as we know it is burned up in a great fire and a new heaven and a new earth is made and Sin is finally done away with, for good, and forever after then. Amen.
 
Upvote 0

Armoured

So is America great again yet?
Site Supporter
Aug 31, 2013
34,358
14,061
✟234,967.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Really?

You do realize that Michael the Archangel wouldn't even fight Satan on his own?

Jude 1:9 tells us that Michael asked God Himself to rebuke Satan.

It isn't up to us to fight Satan. Jesus gives us the power to overcome Satan's temptations and his attacks, but He never once told us to take Satan himself on or attempt to directly oppose Satan. No, it is our charge to get people to repent and accept Christ and to live holy lives ourselves.
If that's your opinion, why try to understand anything? Why try to make any situation better?
 
Upvote 0

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If that's your opinion, why try to understand anything? Why try to make any situation better?

I'm not against trying to make things "better", or trying to "understand"... well I already told you why the Middle East conflicts are happening, so we already understand it -- Islam (being the Satanic system it is) wants to overthrow God's people, just like Hitler before them. The Palestinians are descendants of the peoples that Joshua failed to conquer in the days of the Conquest of Canaan by Israel in the Biblical Times, so they obviously have a bone to pick with Israel.

Jerusalem and its environs is a hotly contested piece of land, that everybody wants. What baffles me, is the number of people who claim to be Christians who don't even seem to care whatsoever that God... the very God we claim to worship and love... promised this piece of land to Israel. These very same Christians are proposing solutions that are contrary to God's plan. It doesn't help that the heresy of "Replacement Theology" is rampant in Churches, either. No, the Church did not replace Israel. Sorry.

Anyways, as far as making things better, the best thing we could possibly do as Christians, is support Israel and help them in whatever ways we can. But yet, how do we do this when our Government seems so cold towards Israel lately?
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,457
26,886
Pacific Northwest
✟732,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Yes, Christ defeated Sin and the Death it brings at the Cross, but Satan is still loose in the world, and will be until Revelation Ch4+. Then, Christ comes down from Heaven with His saints, wages war on Satan and his kingdoms, and sets up His Millennial Kingdom. Then, after the Millennium, Satan will be unleashed, and the various people will again try to wage war against Christ's Kingdom, and that's when the final judgment happens, and the universe as we know it is burned up in a great fire and a new heaven and a new earth is made and Sin is finally done away with, for good, and forever after then. Amen.

That's a Futurist-Millennialist-Dispensationalist reading of the Revelation--it's not, however, what I or most Christians believe or have believed throughout history.

I'm an Amillennialist--I don't interpret the thousand year reign in Revelation 20 as a literal, future earthly kingdom; Jesus Christ is Lord and King and He is reigning right now, seated at the right hand of the Father, until He comes again and delivers all things over to the Father and God is all in all (1 Corinthians 15:24-28, Acts 3:18-21).

Likewise I'm not a Dispensationalist and so regard the sort of "end times" language frequently heard in American Evangelicalism to be theological woo.

As a Lutheran who confesses the historic Creeds and adheres to the historic faith of Christ's one holy catholic Church what I believe is summarized quite nicely in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds. Christ will come again to judge the quick and the dead, His kingdom shall never end, the dead shall be raised bodily, and there shall be everlasting life in the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I'm an Amillennialist--I don't interpret the thousand year reign in Revelation 20 as a literal, future earthly kingdom; Jesus Christ is Lord and King and He is reigning right now, seated at the right hand of the Father, until He comes again and delivers all things over to the Father and God is all in all (1 Corinthians 15:24-28, Acts 3:18-21).

So... let me ask you a question, then.

Luke 1:28-33, an Angel (earlier identified in the chapter as Gabriel, the same Angel that appeared until Zacharias) appears and tells Mary that she's going to have a Son, that she should name Him Jesus, and that He would be given the Throne of David.

At the time, the Throne of David did not exist because Israel was being ruled by Rome and Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD and they've not had a king since, thus no Throne.

Gabriel did not mean God's throne (where Christ now sits at His right side), because he specified David's throne and that He would reign over the house of Jacob. This has not happened yet since Israel has not had a king (and therefore, no throne) since Old Testament times.

So... are you calling Gabriel (or worse, God) a liar, or are you claiming that he (or He) meant all of this allegorically? God says what He means, and means what He says. If He meant the Throne in Heaven, He would have specified that.

Instead, what was specified, was David's throne which only pertains to Israel and the Jews.

And why would He specify 1,000 years instead of saying "For Eternity" if it were allegorical?

And then you got the problem of Daniel Chapter 9.

He specifies that it will take 70 weeks [of years] to fully rebuild Israel, but then says that "seven and threescore and two" weeks [of years] from the time the call to rebuild Israel (445 BC IIRC? Something like that. It works out exactly 38 AD and it is theorized that the Gregorian Calendar is 4-6 years off which fits exactly if you assume Christ was 32 when He began His ministry) until the time of the Messiah would come.

.....wait there's still a week [of years] left, right?

Christ told us what that was (in fact He said to look up Daniel in the Olivet Discourse).
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
OK, so let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Satan literally rules the world currently. Does that summation help explain what's going on in the Middle East in any practical way?
Your unabashed disbelief of scripture isn't astonishing me.
What do you think you're trying to pull, using the word "literally"?
As if God's word isn't?
You call it the sake of argument, but it it is for the sake of further mockery.
Literally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xalith
Upvote 0

Armoured

So is America great again yet?
Site Supporter
Aug 31, 2013
34,358
14,061
✟234,967.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Your unabashed disbelief of scripture isn't astonishing me.
What do you think you're trying to pull, using the word "literally"?
As if God's word isn't?
You call it the sake of argument, but it it is for the sake of further mockery.
Literally.
Do I believe a literal, anthropomorphised Satan is literally ruling the world and literally directing forces against Israel? No.
 
Upvote 0

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Do I believe a literal, anthropomorphised Satan is literally ruling the world and literally directing forces against Israel? No.

Satan, like the Angels (for he is an Angel, or was until he was cast out of Heaven) is a spirit. He has a mind, he has thoughts, he has free will, and he has certain amounts of power.

The Bible makes this very clear. According to the Bible, angels (and we can only assume cherubim as well) can manifest in a human-like body that is so convincing that Paul warns us to be careful how we treat our guests, for we might be entertaining angels unawares. You don't think Paul wrote that just because he felt like it, do you?

If you don't believe in a literal Satan, then does that mean you do not believe in the angels either? And if you don't believe in angels, does that mean that you dismiss any Bible passages where angels are mentioned by name? Just how far can you go, taking the word allegorically until you start making God out to be a liar, claiming that He didn't really mean what He said?

The Bible makes it clear that Satan was an angel. A cherub, in fact. THE cherub if you want to go even further. The cherub which ruled above all other cherubim.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,457
26,886
Pacific Northwest
✟732,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
So... let me ask you a question, then.

Luke 1:28-33, an Angel (earlier identified in the chapter as Gabriel, the same Angel that appeared until Zacharias) appears and tells Mary that she's going to have a Son, that she should name Him Jesus, and that He would be given the Throne of David.

At the time, the Throne of David did not exist because Israel was being ruled by Rome and Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD and they've not had a king since, thus no Throne.

Gabriel did not mean God's throne (where Christ now sits at His right side), because he specified David's throne and that He would reign over the house of Jacob. This has not happened yet since Israel has not had a king (and therefore, no throne) since Old Testament times.

So... are you calling Gabriel (or worse, God) a liar, or are you claiming that he (or He) meant all of this allegorically? God says what He means, and means what He says. If He meant the Throne in Heaven, He would have specified that.

Jesus, as the King Messiah, does rule from David's throne. Jesus won't become king later, He is king now.

No, I don't believe that when the Lord returns He is going to live in a palatial building and sit on an actual chair in Jerusalem. I think that is fundamentally contrary to everything our Lord taught concerning God's kingdom.

Instead, what was specified, was David's throne which only pertains to Israel and the Jews.

If there necessitates a specific, physical chair for Jesus to sit on that belonged to David I think there's a problem. Instead what the throne of David signifies is Jesus' rightful place as king, and specifically that the Messiah would be from the line of David. Jesus is the Messiah, Jesus is the Son of David, the Root of Jesse, the King who would come and deliver Israel and restore all things. That's who Jesus is, even right now, not what Jesus will be. Jesus is the Christ, Jesus won't only be the Christ in the future. Jesus is the Son of David, not just the Son of David later.

And why would He specify 1,000 years instead of saying "For Eternity" if it were allegorical?

The number 1,000 frequently indicates a very large but unspecified number. In the Psalms we read that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills; but that doesn't mean that God doesn't own the cattle on hill 1,001--it means everything belongs to God.

I'm not saying the Lord's reign is eternity, but rather the thousand years speaks of Christ's reign--Christ is reigning right now. According to Amillennialism it is from when He ascended until His Parousia.

It seems strange to me to treat a number in the least literal book in the entire Bible as literal. I don't see a good reason to take the thousand years any more literally than I do of multi-headed monster carrying a prostitute or four weird guys on horseback. The Revelation is an apocalypse, that is its literary genre, in the same way the Psalms are poetry and the Proverbs are wisdom literature. Attempting to read the Revelation of St. John literally is like treating the Godzilla movies like documentaries.

And then you got the problem of Daniel Chapter 9.

He specifies that it will take 70 weeks [of years] to fully rebuild Israel, but then says that "seven and threescore and two" weeks [of years] from the time the call to rebuild Israel (445 BC IIRC? Something like that. It works out exactly 38 AD and it is theorized that the Gregorian Calendar is 4-6 years off which fits exactly if you assume Christ was 32 when He began His ministry) until the time of the Messiah would come.

.....wait there's still a week [of years] left, right?

That's generally how Dispensationalists try and read the text in Daniel 9. Let's try this:

"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city: to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with streets and moat, but in a troubled time. After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing, and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall make sacrifice and offering cease; and in their place shall be an abomination that desolates, until the decreed end is poured out upon the desolator." - Daniel 9:24-27

To understand what the text is talking about it may be good to look earlier,

"in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to the prophet Jeremiah, must be fulfilled for the devastation of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years." - Daniel 9:2

What are the words given to Jeremiah? Well in Jeremiah 25:12-13

"This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity, says the Lord, making the land an everlasting waste."

And Jeremiah 29:10-11

"For thus says the Lord: Only when Babylon’s seventy years are completed will I visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope."

The text outlines several things: seven sevens until the anointed prince (Cyrus), and sixty-two sevens for the rebuilding of the nation until a coming prince, Antiochus IV Epiphenes (the same as the king of the north elsewhere in Daniel), who brings destruction and ruin to the people, making a covenant for the final week; the decrees of Antiochus and the Seleucids prohibited the Jews from practicing their religion, and the Temple was defiled--indeed the abomination that causes desolation with the sacrificing of swine in honor of Zeus in the inner sanctuary.

Christ told us what that was (in fact He said to look up Daniel in the Olivet Discourse).

Jesus refers back to Daniel to help indicate what people should look for when it came to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which took place in the year 70 during the Roman-Jewish War. The Olivet Discourse is not a prediction of "the end times" it is chiefly a prediction about the coming destruction of the Temple, and only near the end of the Discourse does He talk about His own coming which, He says, will be as in the days of Noah with people going about their business--when the Lord comes, He comes in judgment, like when the flood came and took the wicked unaware ("two will be in a field, one will be taken, and the other left")

-CryptoLutheran
 
  • Like
Reactions: Armoured
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,457
26,886
Pacific Northwest
✟732,154.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
The Bible makes it clear that Satan was an angel. A cherub, in fact. THE cherub if you want to go even further. The cherub which ruled above all other cherubim.

Well, no actually, the Bible doesn't say that Satan was a cherub or ruled over the other cherubim. That is a rather imaginative reading of Ezekiel's prophecy against Tyre in Ezekiel 28.

Likewise Isaiah said nothing about Satan in Isaiah 14, as the prophecy is against the king of Babylon, which is also why "Lucifer" is not a name for the devil except in popular imagination.

Both of these passages have been used, imaginatively, as though they speak of the devil: the problem is that they don't.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Another Lazarus

Old Newbie
Sep 19, 2013
2,717
1,050
✟49,808.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The easiest way to explain what is going on in the Middle East:

1). Satan currently rules the world. This is proven in the Bible; Satan offers Jesus the whole world and all the kingdoms thereof.

When Jesus refused satan offers, satan then find other people to build and prepare the world for his kingdom, those people in this end times situations are described in this symbol :
the mason (the builder) of this current bad bad world.


With the magic luciferian power since Pharaoh rule Egypt with his magicians
Their God is the all seeing eye of satan at the peak of the pyramid which symbolize the world
I trust this symbols speaks louder than words

Satan can give power and wealth and protection but in the end their life belong to satan for eternity



Satan knows he shall be given the whole power over the world in the great tribulation

When the all seeing eye is united with the pyramid its hell on earth cause its actually cast out of heaven to earth.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

May Jesus bless u all HalleluYAH
 
Upvote 0

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
@Another Lazarus : It is just stunning that people don't seem to realize that the world and its governments are getting worse, and worse, and worse.

I mean, look at our (USA's) own government. It started off on a good idea, had a little turbulence in the early years, it stabilized 'cept with a couple dark chapters (Nixon, JFK being assassinated, etc), and then during these last ~20 years, it has really been going downhill lately.

Infighting everywhere, general ineptitude, nonchalant attitude towards the masses of people, money worship, etc.

But it isn't like the USA is the only place that you see a rise of evil; you see it in many other places in the world too, places of power. Anybody who can look at major news stories over the last decade or two and not see Satan at work through those in power has to be some colors of blind.

They can't wrap their minds around an "anthropomorphic" Satan literally controlling the world, but yet the same kinds of people who say these things don't understand what Satan is or how he works. He moves in the hearts of people who don't know enough to resist him and his demons, those who are unsaved are part of his kingdom by default (the Bible even says this), and the leaders are more susceptible than anyone else because Pride is the very first door that lets him in, followed by Greed and that's the very two things that virtually all leaders in the world have in spades.

You don't have to believe in Masonry or the Illuminati to understand the idea of Satan and how he influences people to do evil much in the same way Christ influences people to do good.

Why would Christ give His Spirit to all that believe in Him if there was no need for that in the first place? His Spirit turns us away from our innate evil ways and also protects us from "the wiles of the devil" (Ephesians 6:11). Why do you think Paul writes about the devil and his attacks in a literal sense like this? He does that, because the devil is very much real, and he very much does want to cause as much damage as he can to as many of God's people as he can.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Oafman

Try telling that to these bog brained murphys
Dec 19, 2012
7,106
4,063
Malice
✟28,559.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Labour
2). God has made promises to Israel and has a plan and a destiny in mind for Israel. He promised the entire area would be Israel's.
You are the reason there is perpetual conflict in Palestine.

Not you individually, but you and those who 'think' like you. Extremists on both sides who are buried under so much dogma that they will never compromise, and will never allow the majority to reach peaceful agreement.

Islamists who believe scripture tells them to exterminate Jews in order to bring about the apocalypse, and the return of Allah. Christian Zionists like you, who believe scripture tells them that Jews must control the Holy Land, in order to bring about the second coming of Jesus.

You are always the obstacle to peaceful progress in Palestine. As soon as things seem calm, an Islamist fires a rocket at random into Israel, or drives a car into a busy Jerusalem bus stop. Or one of your zionist colleagues kidnaps and murders a Palestinian, or the more extreme elements in the Knesset apply pressure to launch another ill-targeted attack on some corner of Palestine. Tensions are raised, and extremists on both sides smile, feeling they are slightly closer to seeing their bizarre apocalyptic predictions realised.

Every time a step towards peace is tabled, there are Islamic extremists who vow to violently resist it, whatever it is. Every time it is suggested that settlements be removed from occupied areas of the West Bank (an obvious starting point to any long term peace) the zionists resist, not because of the security reasons they often cite, but because like you they believe this land belongs to them by divine order.

You are one of the greatest obstacles to peace in the region, and beyond, and I'm sure you don't even realise it. Every time someone tells me that religions are just harmless anachronisms, I give you as an example of how, even today, they still cause such terrible harm. The sooner humanity is free of attitudes like yours, the sooner we can go about finding pragmatic solutions to conflicts like Palestine, and the better off we will all be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Armoured
Upvote 0

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Islamists who believe scripture tells them to exterminate Jews in order to bring about the apocalypse, and the return of Allah. Christian Zionists like you, who believe scripture tells them that Jews must control the Holy Land, in order to bring about the second coming of Jesus.

You have a rather lacking understanding of the Bible, if that's what you think we believe.

It isn't that they must control the Holy Land to bring about the 2nd Coming, but rather the 2nd Coming is what causes them to possess the Holy Land for once, and forever. The only requirement for the 2nd Coming is for Israel to ask Him to come back and save them. But the Bible says that won't happen until they've been backed up against the wall (which is the whole purpose of the "Great Tribulation" mentioned in the Bible; it's to bring Israel to her knees to force her to seek God and accept His Son).

The conflicts and wars will continue until He does come, because Satan and the Islamists aren't going to give up, and I highly doubt God is going to give up. But yet there's a day when He goes "ENOUGH!" and bam. You'll see some fireworks then.

And you have to ask yourself... of all of the land over there, more than enough for everybody, why is it that everybody wants that little piece of land?

Israel wants it because God said it is theirs.
Islam wants to kill off the Jews, so they attack them again and again and again.

One party wants the land because it was promised to them, and the other party just wants to cause trouble. I wonder which side is in the wrong, here. You're basically saying that we should deny Israel their land, and try to make peace with a band of murderers. That's basically what Islamic Terrorists are; they're murderers. Their entire agenda is "Kill all the Jews" (and Christians right afterwards).

Israel, just wants to occupy the land given to them and mind their own business, but the rest of the world won't let it.

Now who are you saying is in the wrong, again? The guys who just wanna occupy the land they were promised, or the guys who just want to go out and kill people?

You want to make peace with a group of people whose sole agenda is the extermination of two groups of people? Oh, and don't think they'll stop at Jews and Christians, either. They in-fight amongst themselves, too. There are Muslims who are killing Muslims because they aren't "Muslim Enough". If it were possible, if they actually did win, then they'd go after Atheists, Buddhists, Non-Radical Islam, Taoists, everybody. And then when only Radical Islamists are left, then they'd start killing each other off.

That's basically Satan's whole goal for the world -- he wants the Islamists to win the battle, and he knows that the Islamists would eventually kill each other off until there's nobody left, because that's his ultimate goal, to destroy humanity entirely, to the last man. If he can't accomplish that by wars, he'll instead accomplish it by ruining the Earth to the point we die slowly because the world can no longer sustain life, or he'll cause mankind to delve deeper into sin until God says Enough and judges the world.

The only thing that's going to stop this, IS the Second Coming. It is inevitable -- we don't need to MAKE it happen, it is going to happen whether we want it to or not.
 
Upvote 0

Oafman

Try telling that to these bog brained murphys
Dec 19, 2012
7,106
4,063
Malice
✟28,559.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Labour
It isn't that they must control the Holy Land to bring about the 2nd Coming, but rather the 2nd Coming is what causes them to possess the Holy Land for once, and forever.
There are plenty of Christian Zionists who believe that Jewish control of the Holy Land is a prerequisite for the second coming. Falwell-style dispensationists. Whether or not you do is neither here nor there; the important point, and the reason why you will do anything to prevent peace in Palestine, is that you believe the land was promised to Jews by God.

The conflicts and wars will continue until He does come, because Satan and the Islamists aren't going to give up
Nor are the zionists. I wish you would all give up.

and I highly doubt God is going to give up. But yet there's a day when He goes "ENOUGH!" and bam. You'll see some fireworks then.
After millenia of such failed predictions, you'll allow me a little cynicism?

And you have to ask yourself... of all of the land over there, more than enough for everybody, why is it that everybody wants that little piece of land? Israel wants it because God said it is theirs.
Islam wants to kill off the Jews, so they attack them again and again and again.
Israel wants it because 'God said it is theirs', apparently. Palestinians want it because they have lived there for hundreds of years.

One party wants the land because it was promised to them, and the other party just wants to cause trouble. I wonder which side is in the wrong, here.
'Promised to them', by a God in which most of humanity does not believe. And even most of those who do believe in this God don't believe in this promise.

The reality is that this 'promise' is the words of a bronze age scribe, who literally knew almost nothing about anything, apart from realising that his words carried more weight if he claimed to be speaking for God. A man who would not have believed people would still exist thousands of years hence, and whose ego would no doubt be enlarged by learning that people are still killing each other's children over his words.

Palestinians lived on this land for centuries. That is a claim for which there is abundant evidence. If zionists want their claim that 'God promised us this land' to be taken seriously, they had better provide some equally convincing evidence. They could start with evidence for the mythical supernatural figure who supposedly made this promise, and go from there.

You're basically saying that we should deny Israel their land, and try to make peace with a band of murderers. That's basically what Islamic Terrorists are; they're murderers.
So are zionist terrorists. Peace must involve everyone, the crazy extremists and the more reasonable majorities. I always look to Northern Ireland as a model of what is possible when trying to fix a dispute which goes back many decades. The terrorists on both sides of that dispute had to be involved in the peace process, which was a bitter pill for many to swallow, but a necessary one. Some of them are now in Stormont. Another example of how pragmatism trumps dogma. I don't expect you to understand.

Israel, just wants to occupy the land given to them and mind their own business, but the rest of the world won't let it.
LOL, a rare admission form a zionist

Now who are you saying is in the wrong, again? The guys who just wanna occupy the land they were promised, or the guys who just want to go out and kill people?
Both of you are wrong.

You want to make peace with a group of people whose sole agenda is the extermination of two groups of people?
Nope. I want both Zionism and Islamism to cease to exist.

Oh, and don't think they'll stop at Jews and Christians, either. They in-fight amongst themselves, too. There are Muslims who are killing Muslims because they aren't "Muslim Enough". If it were possible, if they actually did win, then they'd go after Atheists, Buddhists, Non-Radical Islam, Taoists, everybody. And then when only Radical Islamists are left, then they'd start killing each other off.
There are such people, who believe that paradise only cvomes to Earth when everyone thinks and believes like they do. They're not much different to you.

That's basically Satan's whole goal for the world -- he wants the Islamists to win the battle, and he knows that the Islamists would eventually kill each other off until there's nobody left, because that's his ultimate goal, to destroy humanity entirely, to the last man. If he can't accomplish that by wars, he'll instead accomplish it by ruining the Earth to the point we die slowly because the world can no longer sustain life, or he'll cause mankind to delve deeper into sin until God says Enough and judges the world.
This bears closer resemblance to a rejected Game of Thrones script than it does to reality

The only thing that's going to stop this, IS the Second Coming. It is inevitable -- we don't need to MAKE it happen, it is going to happen whether we want it to or not.
Any day now, right?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums