is Hillsong really a cult?

Nikti said:

Lord have mercy! I felt that too for a long time, being born catholic, then being an atheist, then nondenominational, etc... at the moment I'm still technically churchless but after serious study and reflection I think I've found my home church. I don't want to sound preachy (God forbid I'm the last person qualified to) but the only think that has helped me find the historical, traditional and rich spiritual quality of my christian faith is the Eastern Orthodox Church.

I sincerely hope you find the spiritual life you're seeking, it's an ugly place to feel despondent over spiritual or ecclesial matters.

God bless

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I am turned off by even EO churches. Don't get me wrong, i do understand that these places have good people in them, and im not judging people, but religion itself has really became distasteful to me. This website is exactly why i feel the way i do. I see people (here at CF) following this way and that way, and they are all divided and wasting their time being divided over things that just seem so unnecessary to me. I seriously doubt i'll ever join any church. Not just because of this reason i mentioned above however, but also because i do have other (personal) problems which prevent me from attending Church. I did at one time really want to attend church though, and to be part of a fellowship of believers, it delighted me to think about it. This website though has only made me want to stay away from Church organizations altogether. Seriously, i just cant handle things i see here.

Poster0 said:

I am turned off by even EO churches. Don't get me wrong, i do understand that these places have good people in them, and im not judging people, but religion itself has really became distasteful to me. This website is exactly why i feel the way i do. I see people (here at CF) following this way and that way, and they are all divided and wasting their time being divided over things that just seem so unnecessary to me. I seriously doubt i'll ever join any church. Not just because of this reason i mentioned above however, but also because i do have other (personal) problems which prevent me from attending Church. I did at one time really want to attend church though, and to be part of a fellowship of believers, it delighted me to think about it. This website though has only made me want to stay away from Church organizations altogether. Seriously, i just cant handle things i see here.

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I'm really sorry to hear that, if it's any consolation I find myself in a kinda similar situation (but on social media) which is why I had to deactivate all my accounts. And something similar happened at my old church too, so I know what a truly disheartening thing it is to feel turned off your own religion because of fellow believers or fighting over theology, doctrines, etc. I'm not sure of your situation or what things have done that have been the cause your hesitance. But I hope you find what you're looking for, just remember that we can't let other peoples behaviour impact our pursuit of God or His church. But I wish you all the best, truly.

In terms of your issue with organised religion, im not too sure what you mean... Do you mean organised religion as in an organised set of beliefs or an organised church? I often times feel like we conflate the terms...

If you mean organised church (institution) I was the same way 2 years ago, I was born catholic and spent years being an agnostic/atheist until I became a christian in an non denominational church, the church was very flexible and many people had lots of different views on theology, etc matters. I can't say I had a bad experience, But for me, I couldn't find that spiritual richness, I wanted to find the apostolic church, I personally don't find the traditional aspects of the church (if that's what you mean by organised?) distasteful now that I understand it more (I actually cherish the liturgical nature of worship, sacraments, Tradition and Patristics side of it) and I'm constantly learning more, and it lead me to where I am now. But that's only my experience.

But nonetheless, I wish you all the best and feel free to pm if you like although I don't think I'll be much help in terms of making you feel better about organised religion in general , just thought I'd extend the invitation

Nikti said:

I'm really sorry to hear that, if it's any consolation I find myself in a kinda similar situation (but on social media) which is why I had to deactivate all my accounts. And something similar happened at my old church too, so I know what a truly disheartening thing it is to feel turned off your own religion because of fellow believers or fighting over theology, doctrines, etc. I'm not sure of your situation or what things have done that have been the cause your hesitance. But I hope you find what you're looking for, just remember that we can't let other peoples behaviour impact our pursuit of God or His church. But I wish you all the best, truly.

In terms of your issue with organised religion, im not too sure what you mean... Do you mean organised religion as in an organised set of beliefs or an organised church? I often times feel like we conflate the terms...

If you mean organised church (institution) I was the same way 2 years ago, I was born catholic and spent years being an agnostic/atheist until I became a christian in an non denominational church, the church was very flexible and many people had lots of different views on theology, etc matters. I can't say I had a bad experience, But for me, I couldn't find that spiritual richness, I wanted to find the apostolic church, I personally don't find the traditional aspects of the church (if that's what you mean by organised?) distasteful now that I understand it more (I actually cherish the liturgical nature of worship, sacraments, Tradition and Patristics side of it) and I'm constantly learning more, and it lead me to where I am now. But that's only my experience.

But nonetheless, I wish you all the best and feel free to pm if you like although I don't think I'll be much help in terms of making you feel better about organised religion in general , just thought I'd extend the invitation

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Religion to me is all the stuff that divides us. That's what i don't care for. As far as sacraments go, i just dont see them as important, especially when it divides people. To me sacraments are just a practice but not a necessary part of salvation. I just cant believe that a persons salvation is based on a carnal requirement. I believe that faith in a persons heart is what is needed. To me the important things are love and holiness. Holiness being a separation from this world and its ways.

Poster0 said:

Religion to me is all the stuff that divides us. That's what i don't care for. As far as sacraments go, i just dont see them as important, especially when it divides people. To me sacraments are just a practice but not a necessary part of salvation. I just cant believe that a persons salvation is based on a carnal requirement. I believe that faith in a persons heart is what is needed. To me the important things are love and holiness. Holiness being a separation from this world and its ways.

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With respect, religion without connotations by any group simply means a set of beliefs by which you base your worldview, ethics, etc. there is nothing in religion in an of itself that requires division.

The only other thing I can comment on is the fact that your understanding of sacraments is sadly incorrect. Sacraments are a gift to the church, they are not a requisite for salvation per se, but they are requisite to the spiritual life that we lead. But again, none of that can be achieved with an incorrect perspective. To which, as an inquirer myself I'm not qualified to assist you with sadly, but I would recommend you speak to a priest.

The rest of your reply, I respectfully disagree with. But that's because I believe that community/church cannot be separated from christianity, and correct belief is not subjective, it's completely objective. And that's why I don't believe we can all just believe whatever feels good to us. In terms what is the objective truth, I think history, consistent doctrine and apostolic succession from the apostles, etc are all massive (objective) indicators for why i believe that Christ's church (which he said He wouldn't never leave and the Holy Spirit would guide forever and that the gates of hell would not prevail against) exists today.

God bless

Nikti said:

With respect, religion without connotations by any group simply means a set of beliefs by which you base your worldview, ethics, etc. there is nothing in religion in an of itself that requires division.

The only other thing I can comment on is the fact that your understanding of sacraments is sadly incorrect. Sacraments are a gift to the church, they are not a requisite for salvation per se, but they are requisite to the spiritual life that we lead. But again, none of that can be achieved with an incorrect perspective. To which, as an inquirer myself I'm not qualified to assist you with sadly, but I would recommend you speak to a priest.

The rest of your reply, I respectfully disagree with. But that's because I believe that community/church cannot be separated from christianity, and correct belief is not subjective, it's completely objective. And that's why I don't believe we can all just believe whatever feels good to us. In terms what is the objective truth, I think history, consistent doctrine and apostolic succession from the apostles, etc are all massive (objective) indicators for why i believe that Christ's church (which he said He wouldn't never leave and the Holy Spirit would guide forever and that the gates of hell would not prevail against) exists today.

God bless

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That's ok, i didn't expect you to agree.

Poster0 said:

I had no idea Hillsong was a Church. I thought is was only a music band. Is the Church and band from the same organization? Am i confused?

Anyway, mind if i rant a little? Im tired of hearing about churches. Im seriously turned off by the whole Catholic thing, and the whole Charismatic thing, word of faith thing, and just the whole thing in general.

I try to hold this inside but it just seems to fester. I don't want anything to do with ay Church anymore. Sorry, but that's how i feel. Lord Help me, that's how i feel

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Hillsong started as Hills Christian Life Centre (or something similar in name). They were and still remain part of the Assemblies of God denomination. Hillsong was a conference which focused on music. It became the musical arm making CD's, DVD's. Later they renamed the church Hillsong. Not sure why but could have been a mixture of being the more recognised name and people just calling them that anyway.
There are Hillsong churches in several countries around the world as well as several in Australia. This basically came about because there was fighting between two televangelists in the US who were both part of the AOG denomination. So the denomination wanted to distance themselves from them. As several pentecostal churches follow the US corporate structure which is have a strong leader they looked around and the strongest leader at the time was Houston at Hillsong.


I can understand that you can get sick of division or what appears to be division. However I think it is very important to meet with other believers so as long as you are doing that which may just be a few friends doing a bible study or something similar is fine. Fact of life is people will have different opinions on things. There are not many essential beliefs in my view and as long as one believes those essentials then the rest are not that important. The nature of forums is that they create discussion which can be heated at times which is not always that great.
Having said that I enjoy discussing and debating different views as I find it opens my mind to different views that I can then research including reading the bible. It is just the way I prefer to learn. Through discussion. So it isn't always a bad thing but thinking of the story that says if your eye causes you to sin then pluck it out. Perhaps if places like this are a problem then not logging back on would be better. Many others have done that before. The Cyber Corps forum was really great and people were friendly but then about a dozen people over six months left CF never to come back and that forum has been very quiet as a result. Part of the reason I think is because they have so few doctrines and allow other views on other topics. Of course they have a big focus on welfare work. Like other groups they have conservative congregations as well as other more charismatic ones.

Trogdor the Burninator said:

Why do people repeat stuff like this when it's blatantly untrue.

There's plenty to criticise Hillsong about, but comments like "they only take EFT" just looks silly.

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Ok, I'm sure they will take cash as well, but if that's my only error and the rest is true , I'm ok with that.

TravelerFarAwayFromHome said:

I heard so many bad things about them, but I love their worship.

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If your pastor is wealthier than the people he serves.
You should wonder, is he here to help us or are we here
to help him.

metronome said:

Ok, I'm sure they will take cash as well, but if that's my only error and the rest is true , I'm ok with that.

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Wasn't your only mistake as has already been said. You made a number of judgmental comments as well which is a worry.

metronome said:

If your pastor is wealthier than the people he serves. You should wonder, is he here to help us or are we here to help him.

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Or I can understand that he works part time outside of the church to supplement his income. Or I can understand that he is given a substantial amount to cover book purchases that will improve his ability to do his job as well as money to be able to make sure there is spare food around to be given out when someone makes contact. Often a non member so we don't see the person receiving food. I also understand the pastor is basically on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I have only met one person who would do that although now I think about it he has become a minister at a church.
Pastors also have to have different skills. One friend of mine who is a pastor actually said to a member "OK if you want to be rejected then I'll reject you. Why don't you just go home." He told me this when we met for coffee and he was about to go and meet with them and apologise. Of course the member should not have been upset over something as petty as they were. However that did not excuse my friends response. Neither did the fact that he had a back injury at the time and was in pain pretty much all the time. So handling people is very difficult and if you just want to feed the flock it may not be a strong point yet you need it as well as good admin skills as well as others. Of course some of the televangelists in the US get way too much for themselves but just because a small minority do the wrong thing that is no excuse to think everyone is like that.

TheDag said:

Wasn't your only mistake as has already been said. You made a number of judgmental comments as well which is a worry.



Of course some of the televangelists in the US get way too much for themselves but just because a small minority do the wrong thing that is no excuse to think everyone is like that.

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Sounds like a very nice person who enjoys his job. But tell me, how much is too much. You made mention of the televangelists who get too much, but there are an enormous amount of evangelical churches in the US that are almost identical to Hillsong and they also generate millions in revenue. So how much is too much, where do you draw the line, 1Million 5million or 1Billion. How about we let the Bible have the last say since you probably believe it is the word of God.
Mathew 19:23-24
And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

TravelerFarAwayFromHome said:

I heard so many bad things about them, but I love their worship.

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No worries. They're a Christian band and that is all.

metronome said:

Sounds like a very nice person who enjoys his job. But tell me, how much is too much. You made mention of the televangelists who get too much, but there are an enormous amount of evangelical churches in the US that are almost identical to Hillsong and they also generate millions in revenue. So how much is too much, where do you draw the line, 1Million 5million or 1Billion. How about we let the Bible have the last say since you probably believe it is the word of God.
Mathew 19:23-24
And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

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Ok lets look at scripture for where to draw the line like you suggessted. Oh wait it doesn't actually draw a line so whats your point in posting the scripture. Yes it is hard for a rich man. Now define rich considering you are in the top 5% wealthiest people in the world yourself! Possibly top 3% I can't quite remember.

I met a bloke who was going through bible college. His millionaire friend was paying for both him and another student. Fees, books and everything required. I don't think God would have an issue with that. There is no hard & fast rule and it depends on what they do with the money and the attitude. Hence some get too much while say people like Billy Graham put all different strategies in place to avoid problems.

Zaccheus was a rich man, yet Jesus said, "Yet salvation has come to this house today"

King David was the wealthiest man in Israel, yet he had a heart for God.

metronome said:

How about we let the Bible have the last say since you probably believe it is the word of God.
Mathew 19:23-24
And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

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If we're going to "let the Bible have the last say" - we need to read in context. Especially when it is one of the most mis-quoted verses in the Bible

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

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TravelerFarAwayFromHome said:

I heard so many bad things about them, but I love their worship.

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7 years after the last post on the thread, it has been clearly shown that Hillsong is actually a cult that preaches a different gospel to the one Paul preached.