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Justatruthseeker

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you are the one ignoring....
your claim is debunked by the Word, from the beginning.
there is no way you can twist all the beginning out of its plain declarations with "wordcrafting".

Except the only one twisting with wordcrafting is you. Refusing to accept the meaning of the 2nd word of verse 2 of the first chapter of genesis.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1961.htm

"hayah: to fall out, come to pass, become, be"

It did not fall out of a state of formlessness and void into a state of formlessness and void.

I'm sorry, but you are using an incorrect translation because you never bothered to do any research on the original texts. Instead preferring to let other people with pre-concieved ideas tell you what the Bible says.

The original Hebrew the Bible was written in is infallible - not mankind's attempt to translate it into other languages. And now you know why the Hebrew's took such great care in copying their texts - so errors like this did not creep in.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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You have been rebuked on understanding the Genesis 1 creation account, and try to
wordcraft your way out of it by an outrageous claim and ignoring the Truth of what the passage in Genesis 1 does say.

There was no mud to dry out for creation because the "dry" was called forth from the waters on day 3 of creation week, all "dry". Then, and only then, did God name the "dry", "Earth".
You you do not believe God named the earth, "Earth" only on day 3 of creation week, and there was no mud, but "Dry", when He named it, which name, "Earth" came to mean the whole globe/Tebal [transliterated to English, we call it "globe".

You do not believe God created the heavens and earth all of a piece, on day 1, and that the heavens were not even named "Heavens/Shamayim", until day 2 of creation week, because they were not yet "expanded" between the cut in two waters of the created globe, and so on and so forth.
Your belief system is not the Word of God, and as such, it is "all wet"....
God put all the ingredients for all that He would call into being, out of the created Waters of creation, for every thing that He called forth, to "Be", out of the created waters.
Yes, the elements were there, in the created waters of this created globe, but they were not "formed" into their various and sundry divisions of created things, which all were called into being by the Word of God, out of the waters.

It took no time for God to create all things, for it happened as soon as He spoke it into being, out of the elements of the Waters of creation.

He did not even take time to call each life form into being out of the waters on day 5, but commanded the waters to bring forth the life, even the fowl that fly in the "face" of the stretched out heavens:

God did not even take the time to call into being the vegetation on all the globe called "earth" on day 3 of creation week, but commanded the earth, itself, to bring forth the life.

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

There was no creation before Genesis 1 and there is no gap between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, for there was no light, no stretched out heavens, no "Dry" called out of the waters, and no temple of God set in the heavens, in the created Mennorah, the Governor of the Light by day, where He declares that He has set His created temple in His created heavens that revolve in the circle around the globe called "Earth, once, every "Day".




And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open/face firmament of heaven.

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Creation was supernatural and did not take time. God spoke, and it was.
Light was, on day 1.
The heavens were stretched out from this
 
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miamited

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Agree somewhat. We know it can't be literal, because there could be no evening and morning to denote days, if the sun had not yet been created until the 4th day. I'll attach something.

Hi JATS,

I hope that your handle really defines who you are. If so, then perhaps there is still some truth to be sought in your understanding. What you say about the creation of the sun being necessary to define an evening and morning is a very popular argument used among both unbelievers and those attached to the 'church'. However, it is not based on truth.

Evening and morning are merely two equal divisions of the span of time in which the earth completes a full rotation. We define today evening and morning by AM and PM. Neither of which have anything to do with the sun. It becomes AM at 12:00:01 which comes immediately after midnight. If you look into the sky at 12:00:01 AM you will not find the sun anywhere to be found in the sky over your head. Now, how could this possibly be if the sun is necessary to define evening and morning?

What has happened to our thinking in our great wisdom is that after some 6,000 years of the sun rising during the period of the morning, we have traded our understanding of morning to be defined by the rising of the sun. If you are truly a seeker of truth, then check it out. Don't take my word for it. Stay up tonight until midnight and after your clock passes midnight see if you can see the sun. Yet, if you meet someone at 3am, say you work a very early shift or you wander into Walmart at that time, you will be greeted with the words, "Good morning". When they say that to you go out and look up at the sky and see if you can see the sun. How can they say to you good morning if the sun is required to be in the sky in order for there to be a morning?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Well, Actually, the heavens circle around the earth, from the beginning, before even they were stretched out between the cut in two waters, and the "circling of the earth of the "Darkness and of the "Light" defines one "Day", and God numbers the days of creation from the darkness, to the setting of the sun [the departing of the "Menorrah/the sun" that governs the light, from day 4] as it circles the earth, in the heavens, from the beginning.

In God's calendar there is no "midnight", but "sunset", for the beginning of a "Day".

God's days of evenings and mornings are completed in 18 parts, not 24 hours, as Enoch was taught by the angel Uriel, in his heavenly tour of the Cosmos.
When the light is shortened by the sun's entering into the portals of it's ordained path around the earth in the circle of it, then the dark is lengthened, but there are always 18 parts to one complete evening and morning, and always 360 days in God's calendar year, with 4 "Stop days" at the head of each of the four seasons. The "stop days are "sabbaths" not counted as to their "parts" in the year, but added as their "number of days" to the calendar at the end of a year, making God's calendar year 360 days, always, from Spring equinox to spring equinox, as seen at the "belly button of the earth", Jerusalem's holy mountains, which real estate He has always claimed for Himself, and which He calls "the naval of the earth"

His creation began at the fall equinox, however, and the sun was made on day 4, which is why in the Jubilees Calendar -based on Enoch's revelation, but not totally, the week always begins on the 4th day of the week, but they should begin it on the first day, as God did.

As to His counting the day in parts of lengthing and shortening of the light and the darkness; He still does that, for in the tribulation the earth is turned upside down and moved out of its place and the sun shines hotter due to the change of position of earth, and seasons are backwards and the sun burns all flesh on earth; but so that all flesh on earth does not perish, God shortens the shining of the day and the shining of the night by one third of their parts. Literally, the Greek is to "cut off", so the parts are no longer 18, in the Tribulation, but 12, total. You would call it 16 hours, but God's calendar is counted in "parts".
 
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miamited

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Hi YSM,

I would agree that that is certainly what some believe. I don't happen to be one of them. Whether we divide the day by 10-15-20 or 24 divisions isn't really the issue here. The 'fact' was claimed that you can't have evening and morning without the sun. My reply was merely to deny that as being a truth.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Hi JATS,

I hope that your handle really defines who you are. If so, then perhaps there is still some truth to be sought in your understanding. What you say about the creation of the sun being necessary to define an evening and morning is a very popular argument used among both unbelievers and those attached to the 'church'. However, it is not based on truth.

Evening and morning are merely two equal divisions of the span of time in which the earth completes a full rotation. We define today evening and morning by AM and PM. Neither of which have anything to do with the sun. It becomes AM at 12:00:01 which comes immediately after midnight. If you look into the sky at 12:00:01 AM you will not find the sun anywhere to be found in the sky over your head. Now, how could this possibly be if the sun is necessary to define evening and morning?

Because:

1) The Hebrew's accounted the evening starting at dusk and the morning with the North Star. Such is why they were going to break Jesus's legs Friday "evening" so he would not be on the cross on the Sabbath, which started at sundown. The evening comes before the morning - because darkness preceded light. The Jewish calendar goes from nightfall to nightfall, not midnight to midnight as you are thinking of with our Gregorian calendar.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526873/jewish/The-Jewish-Day.htm

What has happened to our thinking in our great wisdom is that after some 6,000 years of the sun rising during the period of the morning, we have traded our understanding of morning to be defined by the rising of the sun. If you are truly a seeker of truth, then check it out. Don't take my word for it. Stay up tonight until midnight and after your clock passes midnight see if you can see the sun. Yet, if you meet someone at 3am, say you work a very early shift or you wander into Walmart at that time, you will be greeted with the words, "Good morning". When they say that to you go out and look up at the sky and see if you can see the sun. How can they say to you good morning if the sun is required to be in the sky in order for there to be a morning?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Which would be useless staying up to midnight - since the Hebrews accounted the evening to start at sunset. You are asking me to use a modern time-keeping Gregorian calendar to explain a Biblical passage for a people that equated time differently than we do. You can't use the modern conception of time to explain an evening and a morning when the hebrews accounted it's start completely differently than we do.

http://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Why-do-Jewish-holidays-begin-at-nightfall.htm

So rethink your stance,

God Bless you too!

EDIT:

See specifically "THE DAYS":

http://www.aish.com/jl/hol/o/48944546.html
 
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miamited

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Because:

1) The Hebrew's accounted the evening starting at dusk and the morning with the North Star. Such is why they were going to break Jesus's legs Friday "evening" so he would not be on the cross on the Sabbath, which started at sundown. The evening comes before the morning - because darkness preceded light. The Jewish calendar goes from nightfall to nightfall, not midnight to midnight as you are thinking of with our Gregorian calendar.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526873/jewish/The-Jewish-Day.htm



Which would be useless staying up to midnight - since the Hebrews accounted the evening to start at sunset. You are asking me to use a modern time-keeping Gregorian calendar to explain a Biblical passage for a people that equated time differently than we do. You can't use the modern conception of time to explain an evening and a morning when the hebrews accounted it's start completely differently than we do.

http://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Why-do-Jewish-holidays-begin-at-nightfall.htm

So rethink your stance,

God Bless you too!

Hi JATS,

While I reserve the right to not agree with you, it seems that your decision has been made as to how an evening and morning are defined. You refer to how the Jews, some 3,000 years after the creation determined when evening and morning began. While I don't disagree with how they may or may not have made such determination, I would question whether their method of determination is how God makes such determination.

Just consider that the Jews didn't seem to get or understand when their Messiah would appear to them or who he was. If they didn't get that right, for which the Scriptures speak quite a lot about, why would you choose their determination of anything else that is godly as being correct? It was a fairly short period of time between the time that God revealed Himself to His people through their release and freedom from the slavery and tyranny of Egypt, to them demanding an idol to be built who would be their god. Thus the golden calf was formed. God even told them that He had made Himself known to them in a mighty and powerful way through the plagues and exodus from Egypt, and yet, here they were demanding that a golden calf be fashioned of their jewelry to be their god to go before them. Do you think they got that right?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Hi JATS,

While I reserve the right to not agree with you, it seems that your decision has been made as to how an evening and morning are defined. You refer to how the Jews, some 3,000 years after the creation determined when evening and morning began. While I don't disagree with how they may or may not have made such determination, I would question whether their method of determination is how God makes such determination.

Just consider that the Jews didn't seem to get or understand when their Messiah would appear to them or who he was. If they didn't get that right, for which the Scriptures speak quite a lot about, why would you choose their determination of anything else that is godly as being correct? It was a fairly short period of time between the time that God revealed Himself to His people through their release and freedom from the slavery and tyranny of Egypt, to them demanding an idol to be built who would be their god. Thus the golden calf was formed. God even told them that He had made Himself known to them in a mighty and powerful way through the plagues and exodus from Egypt, and yet, here they were demanding that a golden calf be fashioned of their jewelry to be their god to go before them. Do you think they got that right?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

And just understand that Jesus agreed with the Jews concerning the creation. Jesus also observed the Sabbath starting on Friday evening, every day of his life.

You can try to avoid the truth to keep the fantasy alive if you like, that is your prerogative. You wanted to argue a false midnight belief. That turned out to be wrong. Now you want to throw in more strawmen because you simply do not want to give up your pre-conceived beliefs. Even God told you the evening came before the morning - which is why the Jews observed the evening before the morning - unlike us - who tend to ignore God - thinking our modern way of keeping time with clocks is much better than what God appointed.

And yet here we are - debating time when God himself told us how we were to account the days. If you were truly concerned about whether the Hebrews were wrong because they chose to worship a golden calf - you might ask yourself if Moses was - since he instituted the laws given by God. It was him, writing down what God spoke that wrote "and the evening became, and the morning became - one day." Not those worshiping golden calf's.

One has nothing to do with the other.

It was Christianity that changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday and the Muslims that changed it from Saturday to Friday. So you should start by asking yourself why they chose to do this, being the Sabbath has always been Friday evening to Saturday evening - and nothing we choose to do will ever change that fact.

http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_sabbath.htm

http://biblelight.net/pasover.htm

http://biblehub.com/leviticus/23-32.htm

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/leviticus/23-32.htm

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6153.htm

Clearly you know Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday - what we call the Lord's day - and that is the first day of the week.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/28-1.htm

Don't accept church tradition as truth - it isn't always true - it's just church tradition from men that had their own motives.
 
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miamited

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Hi JATS,

Is there some Scriptural basis on which you are basing your claim that Jesus 'agreed' with the Jews on the creation and do you have any idea what the Jews, in Jesus' day, believed about the creation? I don't really think the evening coming before the morning in God's account has any relevance to whether or not the days were normal days as we account them today. And no, there have always been specific people among the Jews who were faithful to God, but the society as a whole were repeatedly chastised for their unfaithfulness and even had many punishments brought down upon them for this 'general' attitude of the people at large. Isaiah was a singular man that was a Jew and lived among the Jews and was faithful to God, but his pronouncements against his brethren are filled with condemnations against them.

So, when I look at what a Jew might tell me about God today and what 'they' believe about God, I have to answer the question of whether this person, or the person they are getting their information from, is one of the faithful Jews or just another of the many, many unfaithful.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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