[MOVED] Jesus the False Prophet

If Jesus is at war with the Father, at war with God's Commandments - ... then this would indeed be a case of some little "g" God coming along to challenge the big "G" Creator God.

But that is not how the Bible describes Jesus. He is not at war with scripture, not at war with His own "Ten Commandments" Heb 8:6-10.

Lulav said:

Interesting?
Outrageous?
Intriguing?
Blasphemous?

You decide.

I have seen many in this forum contend that Jesus

Did away with the 'law'
Nailed the law to the cross
Allowed anything to be eaten
Broke the Sabbath
Taught against keeping the Sabbath
etc ​

Now if these things are true then something else must be true, that he must be according to G-d, a false prophet.

A prophet is one who speaks for G-d, can we all agree on that?
Therefore Jesus, as the Muslims also believe, was a prophet.
All sacrifices offered to the L-RD must be unblemished

"young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs one year old; they must all be unblemished....."​

Hebrews 19:14 says:

"how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God......."​

John 1:29 says John proclaimed him as such

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Paul said to the Romans 3:25

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood-

1 Peter 2 says

21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; ​

So we can see that 'unblemished' for a man would be to be sinless in both word and deed.
To be sinless would mean that Jesus kept all the laws of G-d but not only that, he also taught others to do so as well, meaning he brought them back from sinning (which means to not obey the Torah) to being in obedience to Torah.

Matthew 5:18 tells us

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
​

Notice it says to 'keep and teach'

Now if we get back to this:

Jesus Did away with the 'law'
He Nailed the law to the cross
He Allowed anything to be eaten
He Broke the Sabbath
He Taught against keeping the Sabbath​

You can see there is a conundrum. How could it be the Holy one, the unblemished one could also be that one above?

John 12 records Jesus as saying:

48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49"For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50"I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."​

And in John 5

Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
​

Ever see one of those robotic arms? Like on the Movie, Dave? Play it to see what I mean.

</iframe> <p><a href="

">Dave</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/blonde">Blonde Digital</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Have you ever heard the old Hymn called "Leaning on the everlasting arms'? Many are familiar with the alternate verse

"Leaning on Jesus, leaning on Jesus, safe and secure from all alarms"
​

But did you know that the song is based on the only mention of everlasting arms from the Torah?

Deuteronomy 33:The Excellence of Israel
26"There is none like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to your help, And through the skies in His majesty. 27"The eternal God is a dwelling place, And underneath are the everlasting arms;​

Or maybe you are familiar with a Wii board? How what you do while standing on it is transferred to your tv screen.

We can recon that with Jesus on earth, mirroring what his father wanted him to say and do. Now the Father would not go against his own word would he?

…But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons." 25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?…​

So we can see that the Father and the son must be simpatico, in accord with each other.

Therefore Jesus could not be unblemished nor the son of G0d in total harmony with him if he was changing his laws or teaching others to do so.

What this would do is make him a FALSE prophet.

This is what the Torah says about a false Prophet.

Deuteronomy 13:1–4
1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for YHVH your Elohim is testing you to find out if you love YHVH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 “You shall follow YHVH your Elohim and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.​

So was Jesus teaching others to keep G-ds word which is His law or was he leading them away from it?

There are only two choices. You follow the one true god or all others.

15 “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves.

In the Didache from the Apostolic fathers it is written:

“(7) Also, do not test or evaluate any prophet who speaks in the spirit, for every sin will be forgiven, but this sin will not be forgiven. (8) However, not everyone who speaks in the spirit is a prophet, but only if he exhibits the L-rd’s ways. By his conduct, therefore, will the false prophet and the prophet be recognized.”
​

The 'L-rds ways' here mean how he conducted himself while on earth.

So was Jesus a true prophet? and unblemished sacrifice or not?

Thank you to those who do not just come here for a quick debate but to ponder the deeper things, the more important things in life than posting a fast answer and debating to be right. I made this long to weed out those kind of responses.

Click to expand...

OR, He could be God and make any changes He so desires.

Lulav said:

So was Jesus a true prophet? and unblemished sacrifice or not?

Thank you to those who do not just come here for a quick debate but to ponder the deeper things, the more important things in life than posting a fast answer and debating to be right. I made this long to weed out those kind of responses.

Click to expand...

So, is this about Christ or about Paul?

Jesus lived under the law and obeyed it perfectly.

Only the Jews were hardened to their legalistic interpretations and corruptions of the Law.

Jesus tried to teach them it was ALWAYS perfectly lawful to do good, to have compassion, and to show mercy on the Sabbath.

random person said:

Jesus lived under the law and obeyed it perfectly.

Only the Jews were hardened to their legalistic interpretations and corruptions of the Law.

Jesus tried to teach them it was ALWAYS perfectly lawful to do good, to have compassion, and to show mercy on the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

Very true. Also, remembering that with Jesus came a new Covenant!

Lulav said:

Interesting?
Outrageous?
Intriguing?
Blasphemous?

You decide.

I have seen many in this forum contend that Jesus

Did away with the 'law'
Nailed the law to the cross
Allowed anything to be eaten
Broke the Sabbath
Taught against keeping the Sabbath
etc ​

Now if these things are true then something else must be true, that he must be according to G-d, a false prophet.

A prophet is one who speaks for G-d, can we all agree on that?
Therefore Jesus, as the Muslims also believe, was a prophet.
All sacrifices offered to the L-RD must be unblemished

"young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs one year old; they must all be unblemished....."​

Hebrews 19:14 says:

"how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God......."​

John 1:29 says John proclaimed him as such

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Paul said to the Romans 3:25

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood-

1 Peter 2 says

21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; ​

So we can see that 'unblemished' for a man would be to be sinless in both word and deed.
To be sinless would mean that Jesus kept all the laws of G-d but not only that, he also taught others to do so as well, meaning he brought them back from sinning (which means to not obey the Torah) to being in obedience to Torah.

Matthew 5:18 tells us

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
​

Notice it says to 'keep and teach'

Now if we get back to this:

Jesus Did away with the 'law'
He Nailed the law to the cross
He Allowed anything to be eaten
He Broke the Sabbath
He Taught against keeping the Sabbath​

You can see there is a conundrum. How could it be the Holy one, the unblemished one could also be that one above?

John 12 records Jesus as saying:

48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49"For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50"I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."​

And in John 5

Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
​

Ever see one of those robotic arms? Like on the Movie, Dave? Play it to see what I mean.

</iframe> <p><a href="

">Dave</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/blonde">Blonde Digital</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Have you ever heard the old Hymn called "Leaning on the everlasting arms'? Many are familiar with the alternate verse

"Leaning on Jesus, leaning on Jesus, safe and secure from all alarms"
​

But did you know that the song is based on the only mention of everlasting arms from the Torah?

Deuteronomy 33:The Excellence of Israel
26"There is none like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to your help, And through the skies in His majesty. 27"The eternal God is a dwelling place, And underneath are the everlasting arms;​

Or maybe you are familiar with a Wii board? How what you do while standing on it is transferred to your tv screen.

We can recon that with Jesus on earth, mirroring what his father wanted him to say and do. Now the Father would not go against his own word would he?

…But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons." 25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?…​

So we can see that the Father and the son must be simpatico, in accord with each other.

Therefore Jesus could not be unblemished nor the son of G0d in total harmony with him if he was changing his laws or teaching others to do so.

What this would do is make him a FALSE prophet.

This is what the Torah says about a false Prophet.

Deuteronomy 13:1–4
1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for YHVH your Elohim is testing you to find out if you love YHVH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 “You shall follow YHVH your Elohim and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.​

So was Jesus teaching others to keep G-ds word which is His law or was he leading them away from it?

There are only two choices. You follow the one true god or all others.

15 “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves.

In the Didache from the Apostolic fathers it is written:

“(7) Also, do not test or evaluate any prophet who speaks in the spirit, for every sin will be forgiven, but this sin will not be forgiven. (8) However, not everyone who speaks in the spirit is a prophet, but only if he exhibits the L-rd’s ways. By his conduct, therefore, will the false prophet and the prophet be recognized.”
​

The 'L-rds ways' here mean how he conducted himself while on earth.

So was Jesus a true prophet? and unblemished sacrifice or not?

Thank you to those who do not just come here for a quick debate but to ponder the deeper things, the more important things in life than posting a fast answer and debating to be right. I made this long to weed out those kind of responses.

Click to expand...

Supurb post, Lulav. And God bless you for quoting the Didache.

BobRyan said:

But that is not how the Bible describes Jesus. He is not at war with scripture, not at war with His own "Ten Commandments" Heb 8:6-10.

Click to expand...

Bob you always baffle me how you reduce the Torah to just 10 commandments. There are 613.

I said -

BobRyan said:

If Jesus is at war with the Father, at war with God's Commandments - ... then this would indeed be a case of some little "g" God coming along to challenge the big "G" Creator God.
But that is not how the Bible describes Jesus. He is not at war with scripture, not at war with His own "Ten Commandments" Heb 8:6-10.

Click to expand...

Nothing there about 'the 39 books of the OT are just 10 commandments"

details matter as it turns out.

The point remains.

Open Heart said:

Bob you always baffle me how you reduce the Torah to just 10 commandments. There are 613.

Click to expand...

That's way too many! The SDAs have simply redued it to a manageable number.

Not a false prophet. Just fragile interpretations.

Jipsah said:

That's way too many! The SDAs have simply redued it to a manageable number.

Click to expand...

It's really not that many. Consider that we have literally THOUSANDS of state laws that we have to abide by.

Sorry...but Paul was the chosen instrument, time for people to get over it, and just accept that fact. Jesus told the disciples, there were things they could not understand yet. Paul had Christ speak though him, and read Acts 14 at Iconium, Jesus bore witness to Paul, and that is that!

Paul was...>>>>>>>>>>>>>Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.


Sent out by the...>>>>>>>>Acts 13:4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

Lulav said:

Interesting?
Outrageous?
Intriguing?
Blasphemous?

You decide.

I have seen many in this forum contend that Jesus

Did away with the 'law'
Nailed the law to the cross
Allowed anything to be eaten
Broke the Sabbath
Taught against keeping the Sabbath
etc ​

Now if these things are true then something else must be true, that he must be according to G-d, a false prophet.

A prophet is one who speaks for G-d, can we all agree on that?
Therefore Jesus, as the Muslims also believe, was a prophet.
All sacrifices offered to the L-RD must be unblemished

"young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs one year old; they must all be unblemished....."​

Hebrews 19:14 says:

"how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God......."​

John 1:29 says John proclaimed him as such

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Paul said to the Romans 3:25

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood-

1 Peter 2 says

21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; ​

So we can see that 'unblemished' for a man would be to be sinless in both word and deed.
To be sinless would mean that Jesus kept all the laws of G-d but not only that, he also taught others to do so as well, meaning he brought them back from sinning (which means to not obey the Torah) to being in obedience to Torah.

Matthew 5:18 tells us

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
​

Notice it says to 'keep and teach'

Now if we get back to this:

Jesus Did away with the 'law'
He Nailed the law to the cross
He Allowed anything to be eaten
He Broke the Sabbath
He Taught against keeping the Sabbath​

You can see there is a conundrum. How could it be the Holy one, the unblemished one could also be that one above?

John 12 records Jesus as saying:

48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49"For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50"I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."​

And in John 5

Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
​

Ever see one of those robotic arms? Like on the Movie, Dave? Play it to see what I mean.

</iframe> <p><a href="

">Dave</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/blonde">Blonde Digital</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Have you ever heard the old Hymn called "Leaning on the everlasting arms'? Many are familiar with the alternate verse

"Leaning on Jesus, leaning on Jesus, safe and secure from all alarms"
​

But did you know that the song is based on the only mention of everlasting arms from the Torah?

Deuteronomy 33:The Excellence of Israel
26"There is none like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to your help, And through the skies in His majesty. 27"The eternal God is a dwelling place, And underneath are the everlasting arms;​

Or maybe you are familiar with a Wii board? How what you do while standing on it is transferred to your tv screen.

We can recon that with Jesus on earth, mirroring what his father wanted him to say and do. Now the Father would not go against his own word would he?

…But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons." 25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?…​

So we can see that the Father and the son must be simpatico, in accord with each other.

Therefore Jesus could not be unblemished nor the son of G0d in total harmony with him if he was changing his laws or teaching others to do so.

What this would do is make him a FALSE prophet.

This is what the Torah says about a false Prophet.

Deuteronomy 13:1–4
1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for YHVH your Elohim is testing you to find out if you love YHVH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 “You shall follow YHVH your Elohim and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.​

So was Jesus teaching others to keep G-ds word which is His law or was he leading them away from it?

There are only two choices. You follow the one true god or all others.

15 “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves.

In the Didache from the Apostolic fathers it is written:

“(7) Also, do not test or evaluate any prophet who speaks in the spirit, for every sin will be forgiven, but this sin will not be forgiven. (8) However, not everyone who speaks in the spirit is a prophet, but only if he exhibits the L-rd’s ways. By his conduct, therefore, will the false prophet and the prophet be recognized.”
​

The 'L-rds ways' here mean how he conducted himself while on earth.

So was Jesus a true prophet? and unblemished sacrifice or not?

Thank you to those who do not just come here for a quick debate but to ponder the deeper things, the more important things in life than posting a fast answer and debating to be right. I made this long to weed out those kind of responses.

Click to expand...

Since this is really about Paul, as you quote him, read what Luke said about Paul...lol..I trust Luke, a gospel writer, not this post of yours! Why did Luke support Paul like this? Try to understand what expanding revelation is. Red above, it is supposed to be an upper case for God there..only because you seem interested in how you type out L-rd and G-d, I thought you may be concerned about that, thanks!







Peter called Paul’s writings scripture in 2 Peter 3:16.


James called Paul his beloved brother who risked his life for the Lord in Acts 15. Peter also called Paul his beloved brother in 2 Peter 3.

When Luke says the Holy Spirit in Acts 13, sent out Paul, along with the prophets sending him, that does support Paul in no uncertain terms.

When Luke says Paul was a chosen instrument, as spoken by the Lord in acts 9:15, repeated in Acts 26, that does indeed support Paul.

When Luke records Ananias a disciple going to Paul in Acts 9, that does witness Paul for sure, as also said in Acts 22.


Luke called Paul an apostle.


A Jewish prophet named Silas, started churches with Paul.

When the demons in acts 19, recognized the same Spirit in Paul, as Jesus, that does support Paul? Same as Acts 16, with the divination girl, the demons recognized a high ranking authority.


In other words, in the gospels, when demons cried out when they saw Jesus, it was out of fear, and they knew his authority. We have no problem thinking that pertaining to the Lord. So likewise, in Acts 19, they recognized Paul, as a high ranking authority a soldier, as they mentioned Paul, along side of the highest one, Jesus! In a strange way, it was a compliment, like here also...



Acts 16:16 As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling. 17 She followed Paul and us, crying out, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation.”


Then, with authority..


Acts 16:18 And this she kept doing for many days. Paul, having become greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour.


When the very respected Barnabas, the man of faith in Acts 4 and 11, went to get Paul, that is quite an endorsement.

When Luke records Jesus in acts 18, 22, 23, telling Paul to keep going, without any correction to his message, that is quote a witness!

When an angel of God in acts 27 supports Paul, that is quite an amazing endorsement and confirmation.

When Bible knowing Aquila and Priscilla travel with Paul, that does not confirm Paul? Did they have correct Paul scripturally as they did Apollos? No.

When the council in acts 15 agreed with Paul, and his gospel, as per the recorded event seen in Galatians 2, that does prove Paul’s Gospel of grace for sure.

When Torah knowing Timothy travels with Paul, along with Luke himself, that does not support Paul?

Do the miracles recorded by Luke, Acts 19:11 etc, saying GOD did miracles through Paul, testify about Paul? Yes!


Luke records Peter and James saying not to burden the church with the yoke of law in Acts 15, same as how Paul referred to the law and it being a yoke. Good doctrinal testimony there, great confirmation from the other apostles.

The churches of Judea, praised God, because of Paul, Galatians 1:24,

When Luke says the Word of the Lord, was spread by Paul in Acts 19 and elsewhere, that is a powerful testimony, and quite an honor.

Acts 14:3 at Iconium, Luke says God was testifying to the grace Paul preached, that saved Jew and Greek. The Gospel of grace, that of Acts 20:24.


More support from Ananias, look at what he said!

Acts 22:14 and he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One and to hear a voice from his mouth;

In Acts 19:6, Luke records that after Paul placed his hands on some disciples, they received the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, and prophesied. Good witness there too…

Acts 16, God sent an earthquake to free Paul, pretty good testimony there too. I wouldn’t mind God doing that for me. Seems like Paul’s mission was very important to the Lord, his chosen instrument had a very high calling.

In Acts 24, Paul confronted Felix about adultery, that took Holy Ghost guts, to say that to the one who had power over him, in that situation. Paul would also not succumb to the seeming bribe from Felix.

Acts 26, before King Agrippa, Paul tried to convert him, wow, more guts to do while in captivity, to those who had power over Paul, relative power though, God was in charge.


Imagine getting stoned in Lystra, and then go back there, Acts 14:21 Oh my!


And…not to mention, centuries later, Paul’s writings inspired by the Spirit, are still leading people to Christ.

And….they are so deep and rich, confirming the origin is the Spirit, by their richness and revelation, that one could spend a life time, just studying Romans, and see new things.

Paul, quite a guy, beaten, shipwrecked several times, stoned, cold, hungry, floating a day and night at sea, working to support himself, he was put in prison, beaten with rods, slandered, whipped by the synagogue leaders 5 times, having his back opened up, all for the love of his Lord.

Can his detractors, walk in those shoes of the man from Tarsus? I doubt it!

It is 2015, time to love our bro Paul..

duplicate..

Lulav said:

Interesting?
Outrageous?
Intriguing?
Blasphemous?

Click to expand...

Outrageous, blasphemous - and ridiculous, I'd say.

Jesus came to fulfil the law NOT "do away with it". He told us that he had not come to abolish the law.
The law said that sacrifices had to be offered for sin - spotless animals. Jesus was the Lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world (John 1:29); to offer his perfect, sinless life as a sacrifice for our sins(1 Peter 1:19) so that we could be reconciled to God and have peace with God.

Jesus was, and is, God, (John 1:1-2;Colossians 1:15;Hebrews 1:3). He is the Alpha and the Omega and the author and perfecter of our faith. No way can he be a false prophet.

Lulav said:

Interesting?
Outrageous?
Intriguing?
Blasphemous?

You decide.

I have seen many in this forum contend that Jesus

Did away with the 'law'
Nailed the law to the cross
Allowed anything to be eaten
Broke the Sabbath
Taught against keeping the Sabbath
etc ​

Now if these things are true then something else must be true, that he must be according to G-d, a false prophet.

A prophet is one who speaks for G-d, can we all agree on that?
Therefore Jesus, as the Muslims also believe, was a prophet.
All sacrifices offered to the L-RD must be unblemished

"young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs one year old; they must all be unblemished....."​

Hebrews 19:14 says:

"how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God......."​

John 1:29 says John proclaimed him as such

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Paul said to the Romans 3:25

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood-

1 Peter 2 says

21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; ​

So we can see that 'unblemished' for a man would be to be sinless in both word and deed.
To be sinless would mean that Jesus kept all the laws of G-d but not only that, he also taught others to do so as well, meaning he brought them back from sinning (which means to not obey the Torah) to being in obedience to Torah.

Matthew 5:18 tells us

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
​

Notice it says to 'keep and teach'

Now if we get back to this:

Jesus Did away with the 'law'
He Nailed the law to the cross
He Allowed anything to be eaten
He Broke the Sabbath
He Taught against keeping the Sabbath​

You can see there is a conundrum. How could it be the Holy one, the unblemished one could also be that one above?

John 12 records Jesus as saying:

48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49"For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50"I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."​

And in John 5

Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
​

Ever see one of those robotic arms? Like on the Movie, Dave? Play it to see what I mean.

</iframe> <p><a href="

">Dave</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/blonde">Blonde Digital</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Have you ever heard the old Hymn called "Leaning on the everlasting arms'? Many are familiar with the alternate verse

"Leaning on Jesus, leaning on Jesus, safe and secure from all alarms"
​

But did you know that the song is based on the only mention of everlasting arms from the Torah?

Deuteronomy 33:The Excellence of Israel
26"There is none like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to your help, And through the skies in His majesty. 27"The eternal God is a dwelling place, And underneath are the everlasting arms;​

Or maybe you are familiar with a Wii board? How what you do while standing on it is transferred to your tv screen.

We can recon that with Jesus on earth, mirroring what his father wanted him to say and do. Now the Father would not go against his own word would he?

…But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons." 25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?…​

So we can see that the Father and the son must be simpatico, in accord with each other.

Therefore Jesus could not be unblemished nor the son of G0d in total harmony with him if he was changing his laws or teaching others to do so.

What this would do is make him a FALSE prophet.

This is what the Torah says about a false Prophet.

Deuteronomy 13:1–4
1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for YHVH your Elohim is testing you to find out if you love YHVH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 “You shall follow YHVH your Elohim and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.​

So was Jesus teaching others to keep G-ds word which is His law or was he leading them away from it?

There are only two choices. You follow the one true god or all others.

15 “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves.

In the Didache from the Apostolic fathers it is written:

“(7) Also, do not test or evaluate any prophet who speaks in the spirit, for every sin will be forgiven, but this sin will not be forgiven. (8) However, not everyone who speaks in the spirit is a prophet, but only if he exhibits the L-rd’s ways. By his conduct, therefore, will the false prophet and the prophet be recognized.”
​

The 'L-rds ways' here mean how he conducted himself while on earth.

So was Jesus a true prophet? and unblemished sacrifice or not?

Thank you to those who do not just come here for a quick debate but to ponder the deeper things, the more important things in life than posting a fast answer and debating to be right. I made this long to weed out those kind of responses.

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No, just a shift in what prophecy is. " the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10

In the old testament .. if you read fast enough, you'll notice that everything prophesied by the OT prophets was in the law, but now Jesus Christ the person has replaced the law as the premise of prophecy. Life for those who trust God has just gotten better.

Jesus is not a false prophet but by virtue of the way he lived and died has redefined prophecy from its very root as the incarnation of the voice of God.

Strong in Him said:

Outrageous, blasphemous - and ridiculous, I'd say.

Jesus came to fulfil the law NOT "do away with it". He told us that he had not come to abolish the law.
The law said that sacrifices had to be offered for sin - spotless animals. Jesus was the Lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world (John 1:29); to offer his perfect, sinless life as a sacrifice for our sins(1 Peter 1:19) so that we could be reconciled to God and have peace with God.

Jesus was, and is, God, (John 1:1-2;Colossians 1:15;Hebrews 1:3). He is the Alpha and the Omega and the author and perfecter of our faith. No way can he be a false prophet.

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Greetings sis! Good to see ya! This thread is really an attack on Paul, it's really is a reverse, buy setting up Jesus as the false prophet, which the OP knows no one will do, so the intent is to set Jesus up against Paul, forcing people to choose who is the so called "false prophet, whereby the OP sets up a false dichotomy, because neither is a false prophet. The OP is really calling Paul a false prophet, a common belief in some messianic circles. The OP does not seem to understand expanding revelation, as Heb 1:1 clearly shows that the OT people, did not know what we know, in the NT times. I know you know this, but it is good to be clear. Thanks frog.


1 WHEN IN FORMER TIMES God spoke to our forefathers, he spoke in fragmentary and varied fashion through the prophets.

Michael Collum said:

No, just a shift in what prophecy is. " the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10

In the old testament .. if you read fast enough, you'll notice that everything prophesied by the OT prophets was in the law, but now Jesus Christ the person has replaced the law as the premise of prophecy. Life for those who trust God has just gotten better.

Jesus is not a false prophet but by virtue of the way he lived and died has redefined prophecy from its very root as the incarnation of the voice of God.

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Yes and "until" is the key word, from Matt and Paul.

Matt 11:13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, 14 (Luke 16:16 says the same.)


Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.