I'm going to try it again.
Jane_the_Bane said:
The cult of virginity measures the worth and moral value of women, specifically, based on their sexuality, or rather the lack of the same. It's what causes some Christian fundamentalists to give "purity rings" to their daughters in an eerily marriage-like ceremony.
The people you describe here are not
fundamentalists. They are out of touch with the fundamentals which have been cited above, at least the fundamentals of Christianity and Islam.
Purity and chastity are 100% as obligatory for the man as for the woman. Moreso, really, as the man is generally stronger than the woman, and there are generally fewer of us than you. Does the natural man get this? No. Are there plenty of such men in the churches? Yes. Are there many such men and women in positions of power and government? What do you think? Do power-hungry predators often wrap themselves in the flag or carry the cross to further their own ambitions? Is that common, Jane?
So whom are you really criticizing?
It is painfully obvious that you are not all that familiar with the historical reality of marriage, but instead project contemporary norms upon the past. What is now only preserved in the form of watered-down customs (such as asking the bride's father for permission, or the father handing over the bride) was once far more literal. Read up on the topic if you want to continue this part of the discussion.
Across cultures and throughout history, marriage is a legal, public committment and oath to be faithful to spouse and children. You read up on it.
Now we've both had our un-referenced say.
The most commonly cited passages in this context (as far as Christianity is concerned) are
1 Corinthians 7: 8-9 ("
But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I.
9But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." [emphasis mine]) and
Matthew 19: 10-12 ("His followers said to Him, “If that is the way of a man with his wife, it is better not to be married.” 11 But Jesus said to them, “Not all men are able to do this, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are some men who from birth will never be able to have children. There are some men who have been made so by men.
There are some men who have had themselves made that way because of the holy nation of heaven. The one who is able to do this, let him do it.” [emphasis mine]).
So you have something against sexual self control. Both of these passages (in context) promote abstinance before and outside of marriage. You have a problem with that?
As for your admonitions: every Christian denomination (and spin-off sect) claims to have the One True Reading of Scripture. Instead of bickering about interpretations, I look at what people actually practice and believe, regardless of whether it is based on first-hand scripture, secondary tradition, or just some idiosyncratic part of their world view.
Again, I agree with what you look at. However, look at yourself (you could look at me if you knew me) and you will find many areas in life where we
do what we would
not, and not do what we wish we would - like Paul and I think a majority of those you mention.
Now, you capitalize One True Reading of Scripture as though it was some recognized term. Perhaps it is in your circles, but billions of us have never heard it or thought it. The term is no more accurate than the word "gay" applied to SSAD (Same Sex Attraction Disorder) people. All of the great religions have thoughtful, ongoing dialogues within themselves, over centuries, about that their scriptures mean.
If I were to judge Christianity solely by what I find in scripture, I'd have to conclude there are virtually no genuine Christians out there, because I see the vast bulk of them regarding homeless and poor people as lazy parasites who do not deserve medical aid, food, housing, or education. Instead of giving away their riches and following Jesus, I see them (including their venerated leaders and most esteemed members, first and foremost) living in luxurious gated communities, complaining that taxes are theft while spending their surplus money on golf club memberships and yachts. Never mind that they pay lip service to charity or contribute some donation around christmas time to still their guilty conscience. Child mortality rates, malnourished children and the gap between rich and poor in the United States resemble third world countries instead of reflecting the prosperous nation that they are.
These people exist, Jane, right enough. Hopefully, you and I are following Jesus enough to feel comfortable in His presence. However, as Goethe pointed out rightly,
"One can only see what one already knows". I have been fortunate enough to live and work north and south in the US, all over Samoa, in Germany and Canada, among all sorts of people. While I am not overly trusting, I have found that
the "vast bulk" of people everywhere are basically honest and charitable. They try to earn an honest living, feed and nourish their families and communities physically and spiritually, to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. This includes even the USA, Canada, and probably even Greece.
I don't expect you to bow your head and say "amen." However, God bless you forever, I am putting this in your brain to counteract whatever it is that has closed your eyes to the vast bulk of humanity. They are cowed and confused by power-hungry predators - fat, rich, (usually) white men and their spandex & bejewelled women who see others merely as "human resources" like rocks, sticks and dirt. But the vast bulk never quit trying to quietly (often secretly) pluck a weed and plant a flower where they think a flower might grow.
