I am a Christian Who Has Virtually Lost All Faith (I Want to Regain it Badly)

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

First off I realize that there is a search function on this forum and some of my questions may be answered by using it - yes, there are plenty of threads that have addressed the problems I will mention. It would mean a lot to me if I wasn't reminded of any of this. I've been an online forum user for years so I understand the etiquette expected but if I offend anyone I apologize in advance and will welcome any criticism.

I want to preface this entire thread and my responses specifically with the warning that although I am currently a Christian, I am an EXTREME skeptic and thus have found this forum. I am NOT a troll and do not intend to lead anyone into questioning their faith (though the level of intelligence I exhibit likely won't force anyone to reach this conclusion, lol) . I am here to learn and discuss, not argue / attempt to convince believers they are wrong. I would feel horrendous if this were to happen.

My first thought I would love to hear responses about:

The only believers I'm aware of were either raised in a Christian home (and thus indoctrinated into the belief system from a young age without critical thinking abilities, etc, like myself), or have experienced a traumatic event or suffered a chronic problem (alcoholism, life/death accident, etc). This creates a problem for me because I'm seeking truth.

"Truth" is another issue that can create an entire discussion in and of itself.

pdudgeon · Aug 2, 2015

The first thing to know is that truth of God doesn't change.
The first thing to learn is that the truth of God can always stand up to scrutiny, because whatever comes up against it is by it's very nature a lie.

These days the lies aren't as easy to trace back, because by the time we hear them they have probably morphed a few times in the telling.
That's why it's so important to learn the truth first, so that you are able to recognize the lie when you see it, or read it, or hear it.

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

This question is my most important one because although I could waste my time speaking with certain Christians, others can support the same scientific discoveries (Evolution, Big Bang, etc) and still keep the Bible/it's teachings relevant. Although I have attempted to do the same for many years, I have gotten to the point where I've considered that convincing myself of something (Faith) over and over again could lead me to believe anything is possible... If I told myself throughout the day of ANYTHING, it would eventually begin to set in. It would set in to the point that I would need to explain how it still makes sense when other conflicting bits of information became apparent (rock formations, Evolution, age of the Earth, Big Bang, etc). It doesn't seem possible to me that reminding yourself of something (God exists, God loves you, etc) throughout your days isn't the main reason you defend it even in the face of testable, non-biased, advanced theories and discoveries.

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

I need to point out that my previous post was not a response to the post above it... I merely spent that long thinking it through and someone responded in the meantime.

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

pdudgeon said:
The first thing to know is that truth of God doesn't change.
The first thing to learn is that the truth of God can always stand up to scrutiny, because whatever comes up against it is by it's very nature a lie.

These days the lies aren't as easy to trace back, because by the time we hear them they have probably morphed a few times in the telling.
That's why it's so important to learn the truth first, so that you are able to recognize the lie when you see it, or read it, or hear it.

I appreciate the response.

Lately I have thought about the "Truth" and what that means. To me, it means that I'm interested in truly knowing/understanding where I came from, why I'm here, and where I'm going. Christians refer to the "Truth" as the word of God, Bible, etc. but try to discredit, disprove, or reject scientific discoveries, social advancements, etc. (homosexuality, center of the universe, age of the earth, etc) or warp them into their own understanding of what the Bible really explains.

I've wrestled with a very interesting image which has caused me to lose faith over the past few years: If humanity became aware of the way we got here and the evidence was 100% undeniable, (the exact way this would be presented/discovered is above my comprehension, but the image works nonetheless) would Christians reject their faith? The answer is no. That lack of critical thinking and the mental slavery that is self-induced has lead me away from the belief.

pdudgeon · Aug 2, 2015

Goat Guy said:
This question is my most important one because although I could waste my time speaking with certain Christians, others can support the same scientific discoveries (Evolution, Big Bang, etc) and still keep the Bible/it's teachings relevant. Although I have attempted to do the same for many years, I have gotten to the point where I've considered that convincing myself of something (Faith) over and over again could lead me to believe anything is possible... If I told myself throughout the day of ANYTHING, it would eventually begin to set in. It would set in to the point that I would need to explain how it still makes sense when other conflicting bits of information became apparent (rock formations, Evolution, age of the Earth, Big Bang, etc). It doesn't seem possible to me that reminding yourself of something (God exists, God loves you, etc) throughout your days isn't the main reason you defend it even in the face of testable, non-biased, advanced theories and discoveries.

Anything IS possible--for God-- because He always acts in our best interest, and because He is not limited by, or confined to, any specific time or space.
He is Creator and Master of both.

So if He wanted to leave His signature in history for scientific experts to find many years later, He would.
And if He wanted to leave something unexplained, He could do that as well.

The fact that some things remain unexplained does not negate their being created by God.

So what's next?

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

pdudgeon said:
Anything IS possible--for God-- because He always acts in our best interest, and because He is not limited by, or confined to, any specific time or space.
He is Creator and Master of both.

So if He wanted to leave His signature in history for scientific experts to find many years later, He would.
And if He wanted to leave something unexplained, He could do that as well.

The fact that some things remain unexplained does not negate their being created by God.

So what's next?

I watched a documentary once that explained this brilliantly... the location and perfectly tuned set of factors that control our universe are perfect for life, scientific discovery, etc. Any change would render us non-existent.

This understanding at one time helped me cope with my issues regarding faith and even strengthened my belief in God. Of course, I eventually realized that a universe/existence without God would also make perfect sense existing in these settings. The real root of the entire issue behind faith is choosing to believe that a higher power exists that has created everything. I'm not looking for proof of this, not looking for evidence against the Big Bang, etc. The real issue is allowing yourself to constantly train your brain to accept that a god exists.

This sort of constant reminding is a chemical process that creates pathways in the brain. Those pathways become stronger and stronger and you begin to reject things that go against whatever you're ingraining into your thought process. Addiction is a great example of this, along with religion. There's a reason that radical Islamic believers end up killing themselves because they have become convinced of the religion they have been fed (they become convinced they will be rewarded for a suicide bombing, etc). I'm not trying to insult religion in any way, I hope that this post is only taken as a question from a skeptical Christian searching for answers and not one that is trying to put down believers in any way. That would make me feel awful if it were the case.

I just don't get why I should consciously convince myself of something that has no scientific backing or proof. At one time in the history of humanity, this wasn't a question because there was no reason to not buy into religion. The reason religion has continued to exist, however, is the fear it has created. If no hell existed (in the minds of Christians), and everyone went to heaven, there would be no one left that followed Christianity.

pdudgeon · Aug 2, 2015

Goat Guy said:
I appreciate the response.

Lately I have thought about the "Truth" and what that means. To me, it means that I'm interested in truly knowing/understanding where I came from, why I'm here, and where I'm going.

This is a classic question.
It is the first step in beginning to understand why God created us.
That answer is three fold:
1. Because our creation was the ultimate exercise and display of His profound and limitless ability.
2. He created us to worship Him
3. He created us because before He knew us, He loved us.

you will find more about this in Psalms 139:1-24.

Christians refer to the "Truth" as the word of God, Bible, etc. but try to discredit, disprove, or reject scientific discoveries, social advancements, etc. (homosexuality, center of the universe, age of the earth, etc) or warp them into their own understanding of what the Bible really explains.

Once again, the truth of God doesn't change.
Scientific discoveries have changed in the past as the methods have gotten better,
while social advancements can change with the wind or the tide, depending on whom they favor at the time of their advancement.

The truth of God doesn't change for three very good reasons:
1. He sees and knows everything, including the hearts of men.
2. He is not limited by time or space, or swayed by the arguments of men.
3. He acts always for the good of men, not for their destruction or downfall as by sin.

I've wrestled with a very interesting image which has caused me to lose faith over the past few years: If humanity became aware of the way we got here and the evidence was 100% undeniable, (the exact way this would be presented/discovered is above my comprehension, but the image works nonetheless) would Christians reject their faith? The answer is no. That lack of critical thinking and the mental slavery that is self-induced has lead me away from the belief.

you know what? If humanity ever tried to create like God did it would be impossible.
God used His own blueprint, while man would just be cribbing off of God's ideas.

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

pdudgeon said:
This is a classic question.
It is the first step in beginning to understand why God created us.
That answer is three fold:
1. Because our creation was the ultimate exercise and display of His profound and limitless ability.
2. He created us to worship Him
3. He created us because before He knew us, He loved us.

you will find more about this in Psalms 139:1-24.

Once again, the truth of God doesn't change.
Scientific discoveries have changed in the past as the methods have gotten better,
while social advancements can change with the wind or the tide, depending on whom they favor at the time of their advancement.

The truth of God doesn't change for three very good reasons:
1. He sees and knows everything, including the hearts of men.
2. He is not limited by time or space, or swayed by the arguments of men.
3. He acts always for the good of men, not for their destruction or downfall as by sin.

you know what? If humanity ever tried to create like God did it would be impossible.
God used His own blueprint, while man would just be cribbing off of God's ideas.

I'm not too handy at quoting/formatting using this forum yet so you'll have to follow me (sorry! hopefully I'll stick around here enough to figure that sort of thing out lol!)

I'm mainly responding to your last point, though I think it can apply to everything you mentioned. The crazy image I tried to illustrate is so impossible to explain that I've accepted I'll get lots of different answers. You have to truly enter into this concept that somehow humanity becomes aware of how we arrived here. I'm not suggesting this event will ever exist. Imagine a point in our future where we are utterly convinced of how we came to be - for example if other life forms came to Earth and explained to us that they had created us or something along those lines. Something that would be scientifically impossible to disprove. It's nearly impossible to comprehend and these examples sound asinine but it's the only way I can explain the image.

Going along with this image, would Christians accept this new truth? No. I'm sad to say that I don't think a majority would. We haven't reached this sort of conclusion yet, and I'm obviously not sure that we will, but my view on the entire faith is that even if a 100% undeniable realization were to occur, those that believed in Christianity and other religions wouldn't reject their faiths. This is caused by an obsessive thought process that pirates the brain and makes the individual incapable of accepting something else. I just can't consciously buy into something that limits me to that.

pdudgeon · Aug 2, 2015

Goat Guy said:
I watched a documentary once that explained this brilliantly... the location and perfectly tuned set of factors that control our universe are perfect for life, scientific discovery, etc. Any change would render us non-existent.

I think you've got it! Your points--perfection, designed to produce life, and what would happen if that perfection were missing--all add up to God.

This understanding at one time helped me cope with my issues regarding faith and even strengthened my belief in God. Of course, I eventually realized that a universe/existence without God would also make perfect sense existing in these settings.

And therein lies the age-old problem of doubt.
First seen in the book of Genesis 2, satan comes in and sews doubt, greed, lust, and delusion into God's perfectly created earth.
And all the while that satan was whispering those sweet lies, the Tree of Life was also standing in the Garden with it's fruit of everlasting life available for the taking.

The real root of the entire issue behind faith is choosing to believe that a higher power exists that has created everything. I'm not looking for proof of this, not looking for evidence against the Big Bang, etc. The real issue is allowing yourself to constantly train your brain to accept that a god exists.

Not just 'a' god. That was the problem that grew when man wanted to create for himself a god that was under his control.

This sort of constant reminding is a chemical process that creates pathways in the brain. Those pathways become stronger and stronger and you begin to reject things that go against whatever you're ingraining into your thought process. Addiction is a great example of this, along with religion. There's a reason that radical Islamic believers end up killing themselves because they have become convinced of the religion they have been fed (they become convinced they will be rewarded for a suicide bombing, etc). I'm not trying to insult religion in any way, I hope that this post is only taken as a question from a skeptical Christian searching for answers and not one that is trying to put down believers in any way. That would make me feel awful if it were the case.

The difference here is that we do need to be mindful of what we put before our eyes, and also be careful about what our ears hear.
those two (eyes and ears) are the two body openings which have no natural means of rejecting what is harmful for the body.

As a result, what goes in our eyes and ears goes straight to our brain. And if while it is lodged in our brain we entertain the bad thoughts or images,
then they go right to our heart, and become what we believe. Those beliefs then become ingrained into us, and we speek and act out those beliefs,
whether to our good or to our harm.
That's why it is so important to discipline ourselves regarding what we hear and see.

I just don't get why I should consciously convince myself of something that has no scientific backing or proof. At one time in the history of humanity, this wasn't a question because there was no reason to not buy into religion. The reason religion has continued to exist, however, is the fear it has created. If no hell existed (in the minds of Christians), and everyone went to heaven, there would be no one left that followed Christianity.

For the same reason that (i assume) you don't have a diet that totally consists of junk food or rotten, spoiled meat and vegetables.
The old adage is so true: garbage in, garbage out.

Gentle Lamb · Aug 2, 2015

Science is full of garbage that is toted as fact. I've been skeptical myself and grew up in a Christian home. I began to question my faith and wanted to come to understand it for myself and not because I was born into it. Over my life God has worked many changes, especially more recently (beginning 9 months ago) when I gave up & surrendered to Him completely. God definitely wants us to use our brains to question, but one thing you can trust and believe is that man lies and God does not. Man takes lies and holds them up as truth, God never lies. Begin turning all your thoughts into questions directed at God, have conversations with Him throughout the day and I guarantee you that the God of Heaven and earth, our Creator who is above all things and knows all things, will begin to answer your questions and instruct you about things that you want to know. Also while you do this ask Him to deepen your faith and help you to understand what He is teaching you. Seek God with all your heart and you will find Him, seek answers from Him (who is the way, the truth (meaning that there is no alternate truth), and the life) and you will find rest from your skepticism as your faith in God begins to grow. Trust God, not man, because man lies, God does not and will never do so, He does not deal in deception.

pdudgeon · Aug 2, 2015

Goat Guy said:
I'm not too handy at quoting/formatting using this forum yet so you'll have to follow me (sorry! hopefully I'll stick around here enough to figure that sort of thing out lol!)

I'm mainly responding to your last point, though I think it can apply to everything you mentioned. The crazy image I tried to illustrate is so impossible to explain that I've accepted I'll get lots of different answers. You have to truly enter into this concept that somehow humanity becomes aware of how we arrived here. I'm not suggesting this event will ever exist. Imagine a point in our future where we are utterly convinced of how we came to be - for example if other life forms came to Earth and explained to us that they had created us or something along those lines. Something that would be scientifically impossible to disprove. It's nearly impossible to comprehend and these examples sound asinine but it's the only way I can explain the image.

Going along with this image, would Christians accept this new truth? No. I'm sad to say that I don't think a majority would. We haven't reached this sort of conclusion yet, and I'm obviously not sure that we will, but my view on the entire faith is that even if a 100% undeniable realization were to occur, those that believed in Christianity and other religions wouldn't reject their faiths. This is caused by an obsessive thought process that pirates the brain and makes the individual incapable of accepting something else. I just can't consciously buy into something that limits me to that.

lol, welll, not quite.
let's try another scenario, shall we?
How about the end of time when God shows up?
The first thing that has to happen is everyone has a choice: to accept that to their joyful discovery, there is a God and that they are looking right at Him,
or else that what they are looking at is God, and they can't abide His presence.
Yes or no are the only two options.
But whatever their choice, God has a place for them.
One is in Heaven.
The other is in Hell.
Either way they will know without a doubt how they were created and why they were created.
And one group will praise God,
And the other group will cry out in torment.

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

pdudgeon said:
I think you've got it! Your points--perfection, designed to produce life, and what would happen if that perfection were missing--all add up to God.

And therein lies the age-old problem of doubt.
First seen in the book of Genesis 2, satan comes in and sews doubt, greed, lust, and delusion into God's perfectly created earth.
And all the while that satan was whispering those sweet lies, the Tree of Life was also standing in the Garden with it's fruit of everlasting life available for the taking.

Not just 'a' god. That was the problem that grew when man wanted to create for himself a god that was under his control.

The difference here is that we do need to be mindful of what we put before our eyes, and also be careful about what our ears hear.
those two (eyes and ears) are the two body openings which have no natural means of rejecting what is harmful for the body.

As a result, what goes in our eyes and ears goes straight to our brain. And if while it is lodged in our brain we entertain the bad thoughts or images,
then they go right to our heart, and become what we believe. Those beliefs then become ingrained into us, and we speek and act out those beliefs,
whether to our good or to our harm.
That's why it is so important to discipline ourselves regarding what we hear and see.

For the same reason that (i assume) you don't have a diet that totally consists of junk food or rotten, spoiled meat and vegetables.
The old adage is so true: garbage in, garbage out.

The questions you responded to regarded my understanding that faith requires constant reminding that God exists but you basically said that we need to filter what we experience in order to keep a positive view towards Christ. I'm not trying to insult you in any way at all, but your responses here basically sum up the unfortunate conclusions I've reached...

You are essentially telling me to label anything that goes against Christianity as junk and only focus on the good stuff that supports it. I can guarantee that that mindset promotes faith-strengthening, but crushes any ability to critically think. I could use this thought process to label the Big Bang, Evolution, etc. as garbage and attempt to filter them out of my brain's exposure.

Intentionally limiting yourself from being exposed to other info is basically a summation of my concern that religion involves constant convincing of the brain that your belief exists. Re: chemical pathways

ToBeLoved · Aug 2, 2015

Goat Guy said:
I appreciate the response.

Lately I have thought about the "Truth" and what that means. To me, it means that I'm interested in truly knowing/understanding where I came from, why I'm here, and where I'm going. Christians refer to the "Truth" as the word of God, Bible, etc. but try to discredit, disprove, or reject scientific discoveries, social advancements, etc. (homosexuality, center of the universe, age of the earth, etc) or warp them into their own understanding of what the Bible really explains.

I've wrestled with a very interesting image which has caused me to lose faith over the past few years: If humanity became aware of the way we got here and the evidence was 100% undeniable, (the exact way this would be presented/discovered is above my comprehension, but the image works nonetheless) would Christians reject their faith? The answer is no. That lack of critical thinking and the mental slavery that is self-induced has lead me away from the belief.

Boy, for not wanting to condemn Christians, to say we "lack critical thinking and we have mental slavery that is self induced" is one backhanded compliment." Ugh. But I forgive you.

It seems to me that you have in your statements opened up this thread to homosexuality, the Big Bang, and a lot of other topics. If you are indeed trying to keep your faith, I'm really unsure what you really want to discuss, which will probably not lead to what you want to know, if anything.

My question to you is do you have a spiritual relationship with God?

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

justneedhelp said:
Science is full of garbage that is toted as fact.

This is what concerns me. The rest of your response can be applied to the response I gave above.

You cannot simply ignore new truths because they go against your own ideas, if you're actually seeking Truth. Truth means understanding why we're here, what we're here for, and were we're going. Science is not evil in nature, but those that oppose its progress pose it that way because it simply does force them to morph their beliefs. Please do not take offense to this post, I know that it is very blunt, but I'm not attempting to "pick a fight", just conversing in a good debate.

pdudgeon · Aug 2, 2015

sorry, i got lost...

ToBeLoved · Aug 2, 2015

Goat Guy said:
I watched a documentary once that explained this brilliantly... the location and perfectly tuned set of factors that control our universe are perfect for life, scientific discovery, etc. Any change would render us non-existent.

This understanding at one time helped me cope with my issues regarding faith and even strengthened my belief in God. Of course, I eventually realized that a universe/existence without God would also make perfect sense existing in these settings. The real root of the entire issue behind faith is choosing to believe that a higher power exists that has created everything. I'm not looking for proof of this, not looking for evidence against the Big Bang, etc. The real issue is allowing yourself to constantly train your brain to accept that a god exists.

This sort of constant reminding is a chemical process that creates pathways in the brain. Those pathways become stronger and stronger and you begin to reject things that go against whatever you're ingraining into your thought process. Addiction is a great example of this, along with religion. There's a reason that radical Islamic believers end up killing themselves because they have become convinced of the religion they have been fed (they become convinced they will be rewarded for a suicide bombing, etc). I'm not trying to insult religion in any way, I hope that this post is only taken as a question from a skeptical Christian searching for answers and not one that is trying to put down believers in any way. That would make me feel awful if it were the case.

I just don't get why I should consciously convince myself of something that has no scientific backing or proof. At one time in the history of humanity, this wasn't a question because there was no reason to not buy into religion. The reason religion has continued to exist, however, is the fear it has created. If no hell existed (in the minds of Christians), and everyone went to heaven, there would be no one left that followed Christianity.

What type of faith did you have? I'm not sure that you had faith or a real belief. It sounds like you tried to create faith and belief. Why don't you talk about what type of Christian were you? Did you pray or have a daily faith that you walked with Christ in your life?

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

pdudgeon said:
lol, welll, not quite.
let's try another scenario, shall we?
How about the end of time when God shows up?
The first thing that has to happen is everyone has a choice: to accept that to their joyful discovery, there is a God and that they are looking right at Him,
or else that what they are looking at is God, and they can't abide His presence.
Yes or no are the only two options.
But whatever their choice, God has a place for them.
One is in Heaven.
The other is in Hell.
Either way they will know without a doubt how they were created and why they were created.
And one group will praise God,
And the other group will cry out in torment.

I will instantly profess that Christ is king and ruler of all. Any rational person that witnesses God appearing on Earth would do the exact same.

My image/question still remains unanswered, however. It seems you posed the opposite scenario to me without giving me any form of an answer. Simply put, if 100% undeniable proof somehow came to be that we were not created by the Christian God, would you accept or deny it?

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

pdudgeon said:
lol, welll, not quite.
let's try another scenario, shall we?
How about the end of time when God shows up?
The first thing that has to happen is everyone has a choice: to accept that to their joyful discovery, there is a God and that they are looking right at Him,
or else that what they are looking at is God, and they can't abide His presence.
Yes or no are the only two options.
But whatever their choice, God has a place for them.
One is in Heaven.
The other is in Hell.
Either way they will know without a doubt how they were created and why they were created.
And one group will praise God,
And the other group will cry out in torment.

And I'm just curious, but what portion of my post did you intend to respond with "lol, well, not quite"? I'm sure it wasn't intended to be offensive, just curious, because I can delve deeper into some portion of my thoughts if it was seen as laughable.

Goat Guy · Aug 2, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Boy, for not wanting to condemn Christians, to say we "lack critical thinking and we have mental slavery that is self induced" is one backhanded compliment." Ugh. But I forgive you.

It seems to me that you have in your statements opened up this thread to homosexuality, the Big Bang, and a lot of other topics. If you are indeed trying to keep your faith, I'm really unsure what you really want to discuss, which will probably not lead to what you want to know, if anything.

My question to you is do you have a spiritual relationship with God?

I apologize for presenting those thoughts offensively. I want to be extremely clear that although I may seem blunt, I do not want to insult anyone or flame any posts. I'm not here to troll these forums and I'm not here with such a hard heart that I'm just challenging other's faiths for no reason. I would feel horrible if I offended you in any way. My parents are my role models and are on fire for Chirst, but speaking to them directly about my skeptical views would crush them; hence the reason I'm here.

I do not intend to open discussion about homosexuality, the Big Bang, Evolution, etc. I want to attack the issue that has kept me from keeping up with the faith: The entire conscious decision to enter into Christianity, along with my very challenging image I've mentioned in several previous posts. The image makes me seem crazy, but it has destroyed my faith and I think it's a valuable question to ask.

I am a Christian Who Has Virtually Lost All Faith (I Want to Regain it Badly)

Active Member

Traditional Catholic

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Traditional Catholic

Active Member

Traditional Catholic

Active Member

Traditional Catholic

"Let there be sheep!"

Traditional Catholic

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Traditional Catholic

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Similar threads