The Torah - What is it?

Josephus

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I wanted to know, what you thought of the following. This is the divinely inspired first chapter of the Torah, or bible. In it's divinely inspired writing. Copied over the years to be as precise to the original as possible, preserved by the Spirit of G-d to give you the text you now see with your own eyes.

Please look at the first line. The first word. The first letter. Tell me what do you see?

Those who are familiar with Hebrew will be able to engage in this exercise a little easier. Those who are not, don't despair. I and others will be glad to show you.

For starters, Hebrew is read right to left. Let's take a look.

The first line you see, all the way across is a single sentence. The first verse. But before you even see this sentence, what do you see. What is the first thing your eyes fall on when looking at this right to left, as if you were to begin reading it? Remember: what you are seeing is divinely inspired. Nothing therefore, is superfluous. Nothing here is man-made. What do you see?

1.jpg
 
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pat34lee

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This is not the original script, any more than English. There were no jots and tittles in Ancient Hebrew, no sofit letters, and there was one additional letter that was removed.

Every nuance in this type of scroll was put there deliberately by Masoretes, Scribes, Pharisees or Rabbis, depending on the time frame. It is as much their way of interpreting scripture to their own end as the vowel marks which they added later.
 
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Josephus

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This is not the original script, any more than English. There were no jots and tittles in Ancient Hebrew, no sofit letters, and there was one additional letter that was removed.

Every nuance in this type of scroll was put there deliberately by Masoretes, Scribes, Pharisees or Rabbis, depending on the time frame. It is as much their way of interpreting scripture to their own end as the vowel marks which they added later.

Thank you. That is what you see: scripture that is nothing close to the original. Understood. Your conclusions are wrong, but I understand you. Thank you.

This thread isn't to talk about the validity of the scriptures you see. Please feel free to open a new thread for that. :)

Anyone else?
 
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pat34lee

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Thank you. That is what you see: scripture that is nothing close to the original. Understood. Your conclusions are wrong, but I understand you. Thank you.

This thread isn't to talk about the validity of the scriptures you see. Please feel free to open a new thread for that. :)

The OP is built on a false premise, but I will watch and see where the thread goes.
 
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Ken Rank

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Thank you. That is what you see: scripture that is nothing close to the original. Understood. Your conclusions are wrong, but I understand you. Thank you.

This thread isn't to talk about the validity of the scriptures you see. Please feel free to open a new thread for that. :)

Anyone else?

Not to cause any strife... but you have never seen an original copy of Genesis 1:1, nobody has. Therefore, you cannot PROVE that what you posted is exact because we don't have the original to compare it to. I trust the text, but if we lack the original then we cannot prove anything, at least, unequivocally.
 
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Truthfrees

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I wanted to know, what you thought of the following. This is the divinely inspired first three chapters of the Torah, or bible. In it's divinely inspired writing. Copied over the years to be as precise to the original as possible, preserved by the Spirit of G-d to give you the text you now see with your own eyes.

Please look at the first line. The first word. The first letter. Tell me what do you see?

Those who are familiar with Hebrew will be able to engage in this exercise a little easier. Those who are not, don't despair. I and others will be glad to show you.

For starters, Hebrew is read right to left. Let's take a look.

The first line you see, all the way across is a single sentence. The first verse. But before you even see this sentence, what do you see. What is the first thing your eyes fall on when looking at this right to left, as if you were to begin reading it? Remember: what you are seeing is divinely inspired. Nothing therefore, is superfluous. Nothing here is man-made. What do you see?

1.jpg

I see an open door or window. Or a container tipped on it's side. :wave:

I see the first letter is much larger, thicker, stronger, and bolder than any other.

I see the door/window/container is opening to the left as though all the text is spilling out onto the page from inside the door/window/container.

What is the first letter? Is it a bet?

Great thread. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Hoshiyya

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Not to cause any strife... but you have never seen an original copy of Genesis 1:1, nobody has. Therefore, you cannot PROVE that what you posted is exact because we don't have the original to compare it to. I trust the text, but if we lack the original then we cannot prove anything, at least, unequivocally.

The original would've been written in paleo-Hebrew, which never had jots/tittles.
Also paleo-Hebrew was a much more aesthetical (pleasing to the eyes) and writable (pleasing to the wrist) alphabeth than the Ashuri script.

(The Ashuri script, like Arabic, really requires a calligraphic pen to write it in the intended aesthetic, which severely inhibits it, whereas paleo-Hebrew was a very, very practical set of glyphs. Only two or so of the paleo-Hebrew letters appear to have had any curvature, hence it was much easier to etch or chisel this alphabet than is the case with Ashuri or Arabic.)
 
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Josephus

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Not to cause any strife... but you have never seen an original copy of Genesis 1:1, nobody has. Therefore, you cannot PROVE that what you posted is exact because we don't have the original to compare it to. I trust the text, but if we lack the original then we cannot prove anything, at least, unequivocally.

Granted I have not seen the original, however we can be reasonably certain that what we have that the script you see in the OP, is the original. Several factors bear this out:

1. G-d says that the revealed things "belong to us and our children forever." Meaning that G-d promises to preserve his Word. Forever.

2. Daniel read a script of Hebrew unknown to other Jews when the writing on the wall appeared. It was a holy script.

3. Torah scrolls have been meticulously copied one from another since Moses's day. Errors are easily discovered between scrolls to eliminate possibility of universal corruption.

4. There are two scripts, and always have been at least so. A holy script, and a mundane script. Even bibles today are written in script Hebrew and not block. Just like fragments are found, not of Torah scrolls, but of scripture written on other things in mundane script. But all the Torah scrolls and scraps from scrolls in existence so far found are written in block Hebrew. I recommend opening this up in another thread. :)

I see an open door or window. Or a container tipped on it's side. :wave:

I see the first letter is much larger, thicker, stronger, and bolder than any other.

I see the door/window/container is opening to the left as though all the text is spilling out onto the page from inside the door/window/container.

What is the first letter? Is it a bet?

Great thread. :oldthumbsup:

Correct, it is a Bet. It is oversized as well. It prompts one to ask the question "why is the Bet oversized?"

Therefore the Torah teaches you that you are ask questions of it and of its structure right from the start. Second, it teaches you that there is more to Torah than just what appears at first glance.
 
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Hoshiyya

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So right from the start, it is shown that meaning will be lost in translation as well. To read in another alphabeth will prevent us from exploring alphabeth mysticism and the deeper secrets.

From this we then learn the immensity of the tower of Babel. I mean, the immensity of the sin. God hated what they did so much he put upon mankind the biggest curse next to mortality itself, namely multilinguism.

It's a two-sided curse. On the one hand, we are blessed with many beautiful languages. Sometimes, you just want to say something in French. Some things sound better in Spanish than Polish, and some things sound better in Japanese than Thai. For example. But on the other hand, it is massively impractical, and the most grievous result of multilinguism is the mistranslation of the Bible leading in turn to false doctrines leading to sinful and harmful actions.
 
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ErezY

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Not really, it supposes that we always have an 'interpreter' appointed by God to understand his letters. Sorta negates the message that our hearts are the tablets and the Spirit of God the inscriber though. It relegates all learning and revelation through 'other men'. Because it's not found in heaven...... But given to men to dispense.
 
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Hoshiyya

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"the Torah teaches you that you are ask question of its structure right from the start."

This is a really great point. This is very particular to Judaism, and not something I hear emphasized by Christian pastors, even those who actually do fulfill the command of investigating and questioning the text.

In Christianity, questioning the text is basically seen as putting you on the path OUT of Christianity and/or belief in the Bible. Which is a very pessimist view in that it seems to assume itself a false religion, much as Islam apparently does. Hinduism, for example, seems much more at peace with itself than Christianity or Islam do. Nevertheless, those two must be doing something right, as they are the biggest religions in the world.
 
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Truthfrees

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"the Torah teaches you that you are ask question of its structure right from the start."

This is a really great point. This is very particular to Judaism, and not something I hear emphasized by Christian pastors, even those who actually do fulfill the command of investigating and questioning the text.

In Christianity, questioning the text is basically seen as putting you on the path OUT of Christianity and/or belief in the Bible. Which is a very pessimist view in that it seems to assume itself a false religion, much as Islam apparently does. Hinduism, for example, seems much more at peace with itself than Christianity or Islam do. Nevertheless, those two must be doing something right, as they are the biggest religions in the world.
:oldthumbsup: Well said.

Questioning is a wonderful attribute of Judaism. It facilitates deep searches for hidden truth. "The secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him, And He will show them His covenant." - Psalms 25:14

Other religions want conformity ABOVE all else. A kind of FORCED unity.

I had a hard time when I started Torah studies with my Rabbi because I was looking for "the right answer" as I've been indoctrinated to search for.

Midrash (Reading the Bible with Question Marks) is unique to Judaism. The benefits of learning the art of questioning are huge.

Got this from Amazon:
Midrash: Reading the Bible with Question Marks
"The rabbis of old believed that the Torah was divinely revealed and therefore contained eternal, perfect truths and hidden meaning that required elucidation. The meaning of a text was more complicated than simply reading it. And meaning changed over time. This understanding of how the Bible mystically relates to all of life is the fertile ground from which Midrash emerged. Rabbi Sasso explores how Midrash originated, how it is still used today, and offers new translations and interpretations of more than twenty essential Midrash texts."
 
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Truthfrees

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Granted I have not seen the original, however we can be reasonably certain that what we have that the script you see in the OP, is the original. Several factors bear this out:

1. G-d says that the revealed things "belong to us and our children forever." Meaning that G-d promises to preserve his Word. Forever.

2. Daniel read a script of Hebrew unknown to other Jews when the writing on the wall appeared. It was a holy script.

3. Torah scrolls have been meticulously copied one from another since Moses's day. Errors are easily discovered between scrolls to eliminate possibility of universal corruption.

4. There are two scripts, and always have been at least so. A holy script, and a mundane script. Even bibles today are written in script Hebrew and not block. Just like fragments are found, not of Torah scrolls, but of scripture written on other things in mundane script. But all the Torah scrolls and scraps from scrolls in existence so far found are written in block Hebrew. I recommend opening this up in another thread. :)



Correct, it is a Bet. It is oversized as well. It prompts one to ask the question "why is the Bet oversized?"

Therefore the Torah teaches you that you are ask questions of it and of its structure right from the start. Second, it teaches you that there is more to Torah than just what appears at first glance.
:oldthumbsup:

Why is this bet oversized?

Does this happen a lot in Torah?

What's the symbolic meaning of bet?

Aren't there number and picture meanings for bet?

I heard of 11 dots over a word occurs 4 times in Torah (I think) and it means hesitation?

Does this kind of thing happen only in Torah?

I thought I heard Ezekiel has some interesting writing that gets one questioning the purpose.
 
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Hoshiyya

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"It facilitates deep searches for hidden truth."

Indeed. It shows that God actually values intellectual honesty, which, when I realized, appeared to me as one of the most glorious attributes of the Creator, and still does. It shows he has confidence that he is on the side of truth, a confidence we don't get from the majority of other religions. I think Yeshua's repeated references to "the truth" is related to this. The "truth" is more than just a name for one's own religion, it indicates, I think, something that can / will be proven true no matter how many questions are asked or how many tests are performed.
 
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Truthfrees

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"It facilitates deep searches for hidden truth."

Indeed. It shows that God actually values intellectual honesty, which, when I realized, appeared to me as one of the most glorious attributes of the Creator, and still does. It shows he has confidence that he is on the side of truth, a confidence we don't get from the majority of other religions. I think Yeshua's repeated references to "the truth" is related to this. The "truth" is more than just a name for one's own religion, it indicates, I think, something that can / will be proven true no matter how many questions are asked or how many tests are performed.
:oldthumbsup: "The "truth" is something that can / will be proven true no matter how many questions are asked or how many tests are performed."

Absolutely. Scrutiny is the friend of truth and the enemy of error.

This is why questions are NOT allowed in most religions, but encouraged in Judaism.
 
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Steve Petersen

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:oldthumbsup:

Why is this bet oversized?

Does this happen a lot in Torah?

What's the symbolic meaning of bet?

Aren't there number and picture meanings for bet?

I heard of 11 dots over a word occurs 4 times in Torah (I think) and it means hesitation?

Does this kind of thing happen only in Torah?

I thought I heard Ezekiel has some interesting writing that gets one questioning the purpose.

The Bet opens to the left. It is the first letter of the word 'bereshiyt' translated 'in the beginning.' I read a rabbinic opinion once that said the Bet is closed on one side, indicating that we are not to speculate about what came before 'the beginning.'
 
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Hoshiyya

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I remember reading a story (it's in the beginning of Ginzburg's Legends) where each of the letters basically appears before the Lord and gives reasons why it should be the first letter in the Torah. It begins with Taw and goes all the way to Bet, who is granted the privilege (because of its connection to the word Baruch). Aleph is allowed the chance to make a case but chooses not to, and is therefore granted the first place in the decalogue.
 
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Josephus

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Those who have posted about their observations of the text, are all valid observations. Some I didn't even consider before. Thank you for sharing. If you have more observations, please share!

For now I will share my conclusions based on the observations I posted, and what you have all posted:

The Torah begins with a Bet for many many different reasons. It is from this, we discover that the Torah itself is multidimensional. It is meant to be looked at it many different ways. And the way we discover the answers is by asking the obvious questions depending on our perspective.

To alleviate any concern that just anything can be drawn from any direction in the Torah, the Bet itself is closed on one side to show that although one side is open and much comes out, the other side is closed, indicating there is a limit to what can be drawn. This then sets up the logic that the Torah will immediately get into next, and that is the rules of its own interpretation.

From this we discover the Torah is like a self extracting archive of information. For those familiar with computer terminology, this makes a lot of sense. For those without computer terminology background, this simply means that G-d, in his wisdom, and in the very nature of the Torah itself, has given us a gift of divine origin that explains itself. In fact, the Torah is literally saying that what it says needs no explanation outside of it. Logically speaking, its inherently circular. What then can certify the circular system? Something outside it. As we learn later in reading the Torah, it is G-d (not some angel) who certifies the authenticity of the Torah by the miracles witnessed by an entire nation of millions of people. But this conclusion is a bit too far out of our study at this point.

What is for certain at this point, is that the Bet, being the second letter of the aleph bet, has a value of 2. Not 1. This indicates not only continuity (but not a loop, since the Bet is certainly closed on one side) with that which was before, but also that there is something of a value of 2 we should be further inquiring about. What then is seen? A top bar and a bottom bar. As we read in the rest of the verse, we read of the topic: heaven and earth. The Torah then, per the Bet, shows that it literally is the connection between Heaven and Earth.

The numerical value of 2 also teaches that there are two of something. And perhaps multiple twos of somethings to be looking for. It's like a clue, no rather a key, to unlocking the next steps in this amazing process of discovery.

For starters, it's two of itself... two Torahs. After all, those familiar with Hebrew, immediately know that the Torah is not written, aka, not given, with vowels. How does one pronounce the Bet which forms the first syllable in the Torah? Knowing how to pronounce the words, requires knowledge of well.. a Torah that is vocalized. An oral Torah. But because the vowels, or nikkud as they are called, are not in the original text, the Torah is teaching us that we are given permission (within the limits of its rules for interpretation) to explore its facets both with and without vowels (aka using different vowels which can change a "man" to a "moon" for example in English, but we're only talking Hebrew here) to understand what is being taught.

The Bet being a numerical value of two, and immediately showing us by its two lines that it is connecting a top and a bottom, the Torah teaches us that we can understand other facets through numerical values. Rather interesting. But logically speaking we could only arrive at the above by the following process:

1. seeing the literal Bet and asking questions of it, of its structure, place, importance, etc.
2. seeing the Bet in its context, ie compared to other letters of Bet, this one is larger, others are smaller (such as in the next word)
3. Asking what the Bet could also represent - a house, a container, a symbol of heaven connected to earth, a start, a beginning
4. And finally understanding that the above can also be proven (the duality of heaven and earth, and of the Bet's written and oral component) through its numerical value.

These four methods we simply discover by the first, going on through all the rest until you come to the fourth.

Interestingly enough, the Rabbis term this process of discovery and study as PaRDeS - peshat, remez, drash, and sod. The literal, the hint, the allegorical or homiletical, and the secret gematrial/number - each later one dependent aka limited on the discoveries of the former or those before it. Logically presented by the Bet, and in the next four words of the verse, we learn these foundational rules of Torah study. And with the Bet closed on one side teaching us there is a limit to what is drawn, we are prompted to fit the clues to find out what the pattern shows us in the limit to these rules.

And we find:

Conclusions based on numerical values, can not exceed what can be limited by drashic, or homiltetical conclusions, or limited by remez or hinted conclusions, or peshat or literal conclusions.

In short, nothing in Torah loses its peshat, or literal value, or else the entire system of logic leading to a conclusion becomes removed from its support, and any conclusions drawn from such a baseless argument, is therefore identified as being false. The limit. The Bet with the side closed on one end. Which is why the sod or numerical value of Bet, becomes the first literal conclusion read from the text, and is stopped on the one side of Bet that is closed. It's like discovering the rules of interpretation, PaRDeS in reverse, to show that there is a limit in the most expansive of all the rules: sod. Going on from here, we are snapped back into peshat, the literal reading of the text in order to start asking more questions, and it is in peshat therefore that we being led to start finding the answers to our questions (as opposed to our own imaginations). It's rather kind of humbling. As if we're being guided (and warned) by the text itself in how to read it. And we are.

As we have only discovered this by looking at the Hebrew of the text, it also goes without saying that one should learn Hebrew to understand it.

I should also mention that the remez of the first and second Bet teaches us to look for other connections later in the Torah so as to fully understand any part of it. It is by the Spirit of G-d that you are able to find such connections but again this is another later conclusion.

I will write more after the Shabbat. Shabbat shalom.
 
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Correct, it is a Bet. It is oversized as well. It prompts one to ask the question "why is the Bet oversized?"
"In the Beginning Elohim created the heaven(s) and the earth."
Does your quoted Hebrew scripture with its oversized "Bet" have primary precedence/significance over other Torahs? For example is Genesis 1:1 in the Torah you reference considered by Israeli Orthodox Rabbis, a Rabbincal Assembly or Messianic Judaism to be a special/unique Torah of primary importance/significance?

Is there any Jewish scholar that knows if "Bet" was oversized in earlier Torah Scrolls or is this oversizing of "Bet" in Genesis 1:1 a later inspiration of a few well-intentioned men? Are you in any way suggesting/implying that an oversized "Bet" in Genesis 1:1 is evidence of a more devinely inspired Torah? Perhaps, you will share with us a Torah link that you reference in your beginning post. What Hebrew Bible(s) currently use an oversized "Bet" in Genesis 1:1

Since G-d (Elohim) is eternal, having no beginning and no end, then “In the Beginning” (בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית - bə·rê·šîṯ) more likely refers to the Beginning of G-d’s calendar of days, weeks, months and years. In other words the Beginning of “time” as the Hebrews calculated its celestial movement/passing. Does everyone agree that the Beginning of G-od's calendar for keeping track of time" Began when G-d (Elohim) said, "Let there be Light" ... In other words did the so-called clock of time started ticking before Adam was created. Most Jews, Messianics and some Christians believe that the year 5775 (Chabad calendar) is the counting of years from the creation of Adam. "In the Beginning" was G-d's reckoning of "time" in which one day was as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day to G-d. Einstein was on to something ... "When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity." Read more at:
http://www.brainyquote.com/slideshow/authors/top_10_albert_einstein_quotes.html

Being that G-d’s Kingdom is eternal would a Rolex Cosmograph Daytona wristwatch serve any useful function in Heaven?

Rolex
 
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