Christianity - As Jesus Christ Himself Taught It

VegasGeorge · Jul 27, 2015

Sometimes I start to feel discouraged when I contemplate what Christianity has become. It seems as if everything man touches becomes corrupt in one way or another. I don't believe that christianity is supposed to be complex, or obscure, or difficult in any way. But just look at it today! All those churches with competing ideas about everything. All those rules. All those millions of pages of written material. Universities offer PhDs in the subject! Yet all that matters is saving the soul of the brother or sister standing next to you. It's insanity.

Think for a moment about Jesus teaching His people. He speaks to them during His Sermon On the Mount. Who here would say that any person sitting in that gathering listening to the words of the Lord, and who actually believed what He said, who actually recognized Jesus as Messiah, and who gave himself or herself over to the Lord on that day, was not saved, not a Christian, not as righteous in the eyes of God as any "Billy Graham" or Pope among us?

And that's it, all of it. The Word of God, sincere belief, and a commitment to Jesus Christ is all it takes. There was nothing else necessary then, and there is nothing else necessary now. All the rest of it, all the stained glass, libraries of books, prancing priests, pipe organs, and Sunday picnics are unnecessary. And, they can be dangerous, because they can fool people into thinking that is Christianity, when it isn't.

What I write here is not Christianity, and what St. Paul wrote to the Roman Church isn't Christianity either, regardless of how Divinely inspired it was. To find Christianity, put yourself back on that hillside, and let the Words of the Lord Jesus into your hearts and minds. That's where you will find it.

Righttruth · Jul 28, 2015

VegasGeorge said:
Sometimes I start to feel discouraged when I contemplate what Christianity has become. It seems as if everything man touches become corrupt in one way or another. I don't believe that christianity is supposed to be complex, or obscure, or difficult in any way. But just look at it today! All those churches with competing ideas about everything. All those rules. All those millions of pages of written material. Universities offer PhDs in the subject! Yet all that matters is saving the soul of the brother or sister standing next to you. It's insanity.

Think for a moment about Jesus teaching His people. He speaks to them during His Sermon On the Mount. Who here would say that any person sitting in that gathering listening to the words of the Lord, and who actually believed what He said, who actually recognized Jesus as Messiah, and who gave himself or herself over to the Lord on that day, was not saved, not a Christian, not as righteous in the eyes of God as any "Billy Graham" or Pope among us?

And that's it, all of it. The Word of God, sincere belief, and a commitment to Jesus Christ is all it takes. There was nothing else necessary then, and there is nothing else necessary now. All the rest of it, all the stained glass, libraries of books, prancing priests, pipe organs, and Sunday picnics are unnecessary. And, they can be dangerous, because they can fool people into thinking that is Christianity, when it isn't.

What I write here is not Christianity, and what St. Paul wrote to the Roman Church isn't Christianity either, regardless of how Divinely inspired it was. To find Christianity, put yourself back on that hillside, and let the Words of the Lord Jesus into your hearts and minds. That's where you will find it.

I agree with you. Paul converted the life as practiced and preached by Jesus to a convenient religion! Perhaps, the published book "Did Saint Paul Deviate From The Gospel?" may throw more light on this aspect.

VegasGeorge · Jul 29, 2015

Righttruth said:
I agree with you. Paul converted the life as practiced and preached by Jesus to a convenient religion! Perhaps, the published book "Did Saint Paul Deviate From The Gospel?" may throw more light on this aspect.

Yes! And, beyond that, has anyone given thought to the question: Why were Jesus Christ's Words not preserved in more volume and detail? Surely, we have enough. But wouldn't it be nice to have more? God acts in mysterious ways!

1watchman · Jul 29, 2015

It is very dangerous to try to second-guess God by defaming His Word and His Apostles. If one does not like the Bible as God has provided, then one should go start a religion of their own --but don't call it Christian.

abysmul · Jul 29, 2015

Being a Christian isn't as complicated as many make it out to be... not necessarily saying it's easy, but I think our man made organizations have made it far more complicated than it is.

Righttruth · Jul 29, 2015

1watchman said:
It is very dangerous to try to second-guess God by defaming His Word and His Apostles. If one does not like the Bible as God has provided, then one should go start a religion of their own --but don't call it Christian.

If you considered Paul as an apostle as per his self-claim, you are already defaming the words of Jesus! Bible is a compilation of writings decided by people, and it varies from sects to sects.

Righttruth · Jul 29, 2015

Posted reply above

Righttruth · Jul 29, 2015

VegasGeorge said:
Yes! And, beyond that, has anyone given thought to the question: Why were Jesus Christ's Words not preserved in more volume and detail? Surely, we have enough. But wouldn't it be nice to have more? God acts in mysterious ways!

That is because it upsets them as the rich young ruler felt after hearing the call of Jesus!

Righttruth · Jul 29, 2015

abysmul said:
Being a Christian isn't as complicated as many make it out to be... not necessarily saying it's easy, but I think our man made organizations have made it far more complicated than it is.

Christianity is made complicated for a easy and comfortable living! Jesus words are easy to understand but difficult to practice!

ken777 · Jul 30, 2015

Christianity exists in spite of religious organizations, not because of them. Perhaps a bit of persecution would be good for the "Church" in helping us get back to basics.

.

VegasGeorge · Jul 30, 2015

Righttruth said:
Christianity is made complicated for a easy and comfortable living! Jesus words are easy to understand but difficult to practice!

Yes, and a lot of the added man made elements of modern Christianity are there to accommodate parishioners, and encourage their financial support.

VegasGeorge · Jul 30, 2015

ken777 said:
Christianity exists in spite of religious organizations, not because of them. Perhaps a bit of persecution would be good for the "Church" in helping us get back to basics.

.

I wouldn't condone "persecuting" the church, if by "church" you mean the body of believers. But, if by "church" you mean the mega organizations calling themselves "church," then by all means, persecute away!

ToBeLoved · Jul 31, 2015

1watchman said:
It is very dangerous to try to second-guess God by defaming His Word and His Apostles. If one does not like the Bible as God has provided, then one should go start a religion of their own --but don't call it Christian.

Amen.

If they (I'm referring to posts #1-#4 of this thread) are saying that Paul preached the gospel or did not record correctly in the Epistles, than they are also saying by default that scripture is not God breathed (because God cannot be incorrect), that the Bible is not the Word of God (again because God can not be incorrect), that Jesus personally by appearing to Paul and choosing Paul (that Jesus errored in His choice by choosing a charlatan) and if Jesus chose Paul as a charlatan, than in a backward was allowing Paul to author scripture, that God is not in control of making sure scripture is correct.

II Timothy 3:15-17
"that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

Acts 9:3-6
"And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do."

Note: That in these verses Paul is called Saul (his birth name). After his conversion, God changed his name to Paul, just to avoid confusion for those who aren't familiar with the Bible.

Also, if they are saying the Bible is not correct because it was written by men, then how can they know EXACTLY what the words of Jesus were/are because the gospels were written by men also, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

I could say much more, so to those who do not believe Paul, they have taken their faith in totally another direction. So, I would like them to explain what there faith IS built upon? Because I can not see what the basis is for their faith.

ToBeLoved · Jul 31, 2015

VegasGeorge said:
I wouldn't condone "persecuting" the church, if by "church" you mean the body of believers. But, if by "church" you mean the mega organizations calling themselves "church," then by all means, persecute away!

Biblically, 'the church' is what the New Testament calls the body of Christ or the Bride of Christ, so using this word 'the church' has particular meaning. The Bible calls Christ's own, the church.

lol. Actually according to God's Word, you are also the church. lol. Ironic, huh?

ken777 · Aug 1, 2015

VegasGeorge said:
I wouldn't condone "persecuting" the church, if by "church" you mean the body of believers. But, if by "church" you mean the mega organizations calling themselves "church," then by all means, persecute away!

I agree, but I suspect we may see the latter persecuting the former as in times past.
.

ToBeLoved · Aug 6, 2015

1watchman said:
It is very dangerous to try to second-guess God by defaming His Word and His Apostles. If one does not like the Bible as God has provided, then one should go start a religion of their own --but don't call it Christian.

Amen.

If they don't like the rest of the Bible, why not just read the gospels and keep it moving.

It's so much easier to complain about Christianity, God gave us too much. That whole big book, most have never read, but complain about. That big Bible with thousands and thousands of words.

Hank77 · Aug 6, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Also, if they are saying the Bible is not correct because it was written by men, then how can they know EXACTLY what the words of Jesus were/are because the gospels were written by men also, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

I could say much more, so to those who do not believe Paul, they have taken their faith in totally another direction. So, I would like them to explain what there faith IS built upon? Because I can not see what the basis is for their faith.

I am always befuddle by people would choose to reject Paul's apostleship. That would mean that the rest of the apostles did not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit because they accepted him which would include the apostles John and James, who wrote James. So there goes John's Gospel and the other three he probably wrote and Revelation. Wow, that doesn't leave much does it? Opps....I also forgot Luke, who wrote about Paul, there goes Luke and Acts, too.
Peter the one who first had the revelation from God about who Jesus was, is then fooled into believing that Paul was chosen by God. Amazing deduction that.
Oh wait! That eliminates Peter 1 and 2, as well.

EDIT: I think that leaves us with Matthew, Mark, maybe Hebrews, and Jude.

Ken Rank · Aug 12, 2015

VegasGeorge said:
What I write here is not Christianity, and what St. Paul wrote to the Roman Church isn't Christianity either, regardless of how Divinely inspired it was. To find Christianity, put yourself back on that hillside, and let the Words of the Lord Jesus into your hearts and minds. That's where you will find it.

Well said.... we have many issues today we don't recognize because when one is "born into" a particular paradigm (way of seeing things) we simply don't always know there are questions to ask. For example... what about word definitions? Today we use the word "adopted," and we see it as an orphan being brought into a family. So as adopted sons and daughters of God we kind of look at ourselves as homeless (spiritually speaking) and that God brought us in as His. That is NOT what it meant in the first century. To become an adopted son or daughter meant being brought into a family to do the work of the family. To be an adopted son or daughter of God means we join into the Father's family to do the work of the Father. Adoption is tied more to work than anything else... at least it was. I use that to say that when we find ourselves on that hill, 2000 years ago, listening to the words of Messiah, we must also factor in what his words meant in that day. And, the fact that he was Jewish and was raised and lived in that culture also, whether we like it or not, are heard in his words. So what I am adding to hearing him from that hillside 2000 years ago is STUDY, we are to study to show ourselves approved. Because words and cultures and idioms and other forms of abstract communication change over time and culture. Being raised in the west in the 21st century is VERY different than being raised in the near east in the 1st century. And we can't force our definitions and cultural understanding from today onto a text that originates 1950 years ago. Well, we can... but we will draw some pretty lame conclusions if we do!

Many blessings.
Ken

ToBeLoved · Aug 12, 2015

Ken Rank said:
Well said.... we have many issues today we don't recognize because when one is "born into" a particular paradigm (way of seeing things) we simply don't always know there are questions to ask. For example... what about word definitions? Today we use the word "adopted," and we see it as an orphan being brought into a family. So as adopted sons and daughters of God we kind of look at ourselves as homeless (spiritually speaking) and that God brought us in as His. That is NOT what it meant in the first century. To become an adopted son or daughter meant being brought into a family to do the work of the family. To be an adopted son or daughter of God means we join into the Father's family to do the work of the Father. Adoption is tied more to work than anything else... at least it was. I use that to say that when we find ourselves on that hill, 2000 years ago, listening to the words of Messiah, we must also factor in what his words meant in that day. And, the fact that he was Jewish and was raised and lived in that culture also, whether we like it or not, are heard in his words. So what I am adding to hearing him from that hillside 2000 years ago is STUDY, we are to study to show ourselves approved. Because words and cultures and idioms and other forms of abstract communication change over time and culture. Being raised in the west in the 21st century is VERY different than being raised in the near east in the 1st century. And we can't force our definitions and cultural understanding from today onto a text that originates 1950 years ago. Well, we can... but we will draw some pretty lame conclusions if we do!

Many blessings.
Ken

Of course reading the Bible for yourself and knowing what it says, free's one from being dependant on what other people say. Also, we can go back to the original languages.

Ken Rank · Aug 12, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Of course reading the Bible for yourself and knowing what it says, free's one from being dependant on what other people say. Also, we can go back to the original languages.

Yes, but God did create an office of teacher, we see that consistently in the OT and NT. And, again, our environment and culture and time will cause us to read through a certain lens. Even today, if you are in the US you will have a different perception than somebody reading from areas of Africa where Christians are being killed left and right. To "rightly divide the word of truth" when that is rolled back to Hebrew means to stand between.... and what that means is to stand between ALL potential conclusions, hear them all out, and then pray and wait on God for reconciliation of what you have studied. To "prove all things" means you have to be able to consider all things, NOT just what is seen through ONLY your eyes.

Case in point, I would be willing to bet that you had never heard the definition of adoption that I shared! I am not saying that to puff me up, just to make a point. If you thought adoption was taking in a homeless child then when you read that word in the NT and apply it to yourself, you missed the point because it IS dealing with being brought into a family to do the work of that family you are joining. There are other words I can share with you that have changed meaning over time. For example... a gentile as defined TODAY means "any believer who is not Jewish." But historically, a gentile is "a pagan, a heathen, anyone not a Jew OR Christian." So if you read "gentile" and think "Christian who isn't Jewish," then you have the wrong definition as the bible uses it.

So, I appreciate your point but to stand independent means seeing through only your paradigm and that leaves much food on the table.

Many blessings!

Christianity - As Jesus Christ Himself Taught It

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