How do you see a perfect designer in the universe we live in?

alexiscurious said:

God's word must be very obscure and unclear for you if you have to jump back and forth from literal to fictional.

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LOL. Do you suggest I should just assume one or the other? Is that what you have done?

alexiscurious said:

Ironic how this plan is so big but none of us can see it.

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That is your personal opinon.

What do you put your faith in? Science? They cannot explain how things came to be before their Big Bang theory.

ToBeLoved said:

That is your personal opinon.

What do you put your faith in? Science? They cannot explain how things came to be before their Big Bang theory.

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deleted.

alexiscurious said:

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

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Why do either of these demand that the Creator is not perfect or does not exist? It seems to be a judgment call based on mere preference, I don't see how that could invalidate God as the perfect Creator.

alexiscurious said:

Well, that is what I tend to hear. Christians are fond of this complexity/design of the universe argument in proving the existence of a creator.

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Well, I don't know that they go so far as to say that it "proves" a Designer, but they do say it is solid evidence in favor of thinking there is a Designer. I can look at an automobile and immediately - and correctly - infer a designer. There is the unmistakable stamp of design upon it. And this is true of great host of things. But, strangely, when it comes to the infinitely more complex, finely-balanced, ordered, and information-dense universe, some refuse to do the same. But this denial of the obvious is really, I think, more of a philosophical issue than a scientific one.

alexiscurious said:

So he wanted to design the floods that drown life, the earthquakes that destroy human civilization, and the diseases that kill by the millions. Yikes. I think it was Neil DeGrasse Tyson that said he doesn't believe in God because of all the ways the universe is trying to kill us. I don't think it's hard to imagine why one would question the existence of a designer after seeing these things.

Also, I just found this ironic:
Isaiah 45:18: For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is none else.

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Well, you see, you're thinking in a solely temporal way about life. God did not make us for time, but for eternity. The few short decades we spend on Earth are infinitesimally brief in the context of all eternity. But so many believe this life is all there is and cannot then fathom why God would ever shorten it, or allow it to be hindered or crippled by disease, or injury, or defect. God has told us, however, that it is the foolish, the profoundly short-sighted person, who lives like there is no eternity to come. There is; and so we ought to live like it, not despairing of the hardships of temporal living but looking eagerly forward to an unending and joyful existence with our Creator.

alexiscurious said:

Well, anthropologists do. And they have made an effort to teach this in every classroom and to every student that goes to a public school. It might be important.

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Or it might be the momentum of a deeply-flawed cultural/philosophical movement that non-theists have worked hard to manufacture - even at the cost of scientific integrity - and now work assiduously to preserve by promulgating it in public schools and silencing any dissent or question by ridicule, scorn and threat.

Selah.

Sketcher said:

Why do either of these demand that the Creator is not perfect or does not exist? It seems to be a judgment call based on mere preference, I don't see how that could invalidate God as the perfect Creator.

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They can not see the beauty and vastness of what is because they have in their own mind what the earth and cosmos should be. People study one subject like biology for 10 years and fully don't know how things came to be. lol

ToBeLoved said:

They can not see the beauty and vastness of what is because they have in their own mind what the earth and cosmos should be. People study one subject like biology for 10 years and fully don't know how things came to be. lol

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I see it more as an equivalent of people claiming that Dali was a terrible artist because they prefer Rembrandt, without any regard for Dali's technical skill - it's just their preference.