For those who have not been healed.

now faith

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Word of Faith teaches that healing is our promise from God.

When people do not get Healed often times they are angry at faith being taught for healing.

Some say I have believed but nothing happened.

I find this passage in James interesting:

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

[15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Notice vs 15,it is clear on the prayer of Faith,as well notice it's not the sick persons faith that saves them it is the elders prayer of Faith.

Now if the sick are prayed over the healing is conditional upon those doing the praying.

Hopefully they do not end the prayer with if it be thine will.

The anointing with oil from the elders is one way to be healed,but if your not any better after then find elders with faith.

As I mentioned this passage is unconditional even sin cannot prevail against the prayer of Faith,so seek out a Church that gets results, a Church that has a funeral on a rare occasion.

But if your in a Church that the congregation is just as bad off as the world, there is something wrong healing is not a gamble its a promise from God.
 

ABlessedAnomaly

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Word of Faith teaches that healing is our promise from God.

When people do not get Healed often times they are angry at faith being taught for healing.

Some say I have believed but nothing happened.

I find this passage in James interesting:

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

[15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Notice vs 15,it is clear on the prayer of Faith,as well notice it's not the sick persons faith that saves them it is the elders prayer of Faith.

Now if the sick are prayed over the healing is conditional upon those doing the praying.

Hopefully they do not end the prayer with if it be thine will.

The anointing with oil from the elders is one way to be healed,but if your not any better after then find elders with faith.

As I mentioned this passage is unconditional even sin cannot prevail against the prayer of Faith,so seek out a Church that gets results, a Church that has a funeral on a rare occasion.

But if your in a Church that the congregation is just as bad off as the world, there is something wrong healing is not a gamble its a promise from God.
That's good.

As a side note it reminds me of many preachers who like to teach that Jesus never told us to pray for the sick. So your references came from James 5:14-15. Who wrote this? Under what inspiration?

Let's face it: God wrote the Bible through men. God inspired James to write what he wrote. And Jesus is God.

So who taught James 5:14-15 ?
 
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hhodgson

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That's good.

As a side note it reminds me of many preachers who like to teach that Jesus never told us to pray for the sick. So your references came from James 5:14-15. Who wrote this? Under what inspiration?

2 Timothy 3:16
Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Let's face it: God wrote the Bible through men. God inspired James to write what he wrote. And Jesus is God.

So who taught James 5:14-15 ?

2 Timothy 3:16
Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...

Key words... "Inspired by God." scripture[1].gif

Be Blessed to be a BLESSING...The High Five.gif

Word-of-Faith[1].gif
 
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now faith

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That's good.

As a side note it reminds me of many preachers who like to teach that Jesus never told us to pray for the sick. So your references came from James 5:14-15. Who wrote this? Under what inspiration?

Let's face it: God wrote the Bible through men. God inspired James to write what he wrote. And Jesus is God.

So who taught James 5:14-15 ?

I believe James is where the confusion sets in.
As they study the book of James, they arrive at chapter 4 then move to 5.

Chapter 4 the intention was to reprove arrogance and presumption.

Chapter 5 the context changes to instruction for the believers benefit or possibly even the un saved.


Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
[14] Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
[15] For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

Hence for evermore any prayer according to the confused should be ended with if it be Gods will.

The main difference is we should not charge to God doing anything outside of what he clearly states in His Word.

The focus on pride is clear in chapter 4 , in chapter 5 it is God's promise that faith heals.

A church of God friend of mine asked me in the gym :

So how's the name it and claim it going?

Thank God for cell phones with Bible apps on them!

After explaining this in James 5 is the naming and healing is the claiming,his smile turned to a more serious look,as if maybe for years he has misunderstood what we claim from.

My friend is in his 80s but will always listen and is open to learn.
I have great respect for him and his kind manners.
 
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now faith

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Oh yes I have heard not to pray for the sick, in particular those out side the Church.

Because it may not be God's will because he is punishing them.

This type of statement, and some more motivated me to Word of Faith.

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
[3] For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
[4] I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
[5] Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;
[6] Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:
[7] Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.
[8] We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth.


1 st John 5


These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
[15] And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
 
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Farm Truck

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Word of Faith teaches that healing is our promise from God.

Shouldn't that be God's Word teaches us this instead of our group?

There are other groups other than Word of Faith that teach healing ya know.




Because it may not be God's will because he is punishing them.

It's His intent that all be saved, but let us not forget that WHATEVER a man sows is what he shall reap (Gal 6:7,8) which is why Romans 1 speaks of God turning some over to a reprobate mind due to their refusal to keep the knowledge of God in favor of walking after the flesh.

Yes, God is a good God - but He is also a God of judgement and as Romans 8 teaches us, if we walk after the flesh, we shall die.
 
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now faith

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Shouldn't that be God's Word teaches us this instead of our group?

There are other groups other than Word of Faith that teach healing ya know.






It's His intent that all be saved, but let us not forget that WHATEVER a man sows is what he shall reap (Gal 6:7,8) which is why Romans 1 speaks of God turning some over to a reprobate mind due to their refusal to keep the knowledge of God in favor of walking after the flesh.

Yes, God is a good God - but He is also a God of judgement and as Romans 8 teaches us, if we walk after the flesh, we shall die.

Yes I agree that Word of Faith does not hold all rights to the belief of healing.

Can you give me a example of another group that believes healing is God's unconditional promise?

Romans 1
and the topic of reprobate is not the topic of discussion.

It is not our commission to know who is reprobate,and I suppose if someone was they would not be in Church to seek healing.


Romans:1

19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


As God said in Deuteronomy,I set before you life and death choose life [paraphrase]

So we know by choice the reprobate has chosen death knowing the conquences of their action.

A reprobate mind purposes to sin in the face of God due to their pride and desire to be as God in the same manner of their father the devil.
 
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It is not our commission to know who is reprobate

Jesus said we will know them by their fruit. Seems to be more and more Christians not being very fruity these days considering the Bible does teach there will be a falling away in the end times as well as people not enduring sound doctrine, the love of many growing cold (this IS love, that we keep His commandments as in NT commandments), and people following teachers that tickle their ears instead of teaching the entire New Testament which is not seeker sensitive.

These are all reasons why some are not healed simply because some are not walking with God and cannot receive as they call upon Him in times of great need but otherwise ignore His leading.
 
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now faith

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Jesus said we will know them by their fruit. Seems to be more and more Christians not being very fruity these days considering the Bible does teach there will be a falling away in the end times as well as people not enduring sound doctrine, the love of many growing cold (this IS love, that we keep His commandments as in NT commandments), and people following teachers that tickle their ears instead of teaching the entire New Testament which is not seeker sensitive.

These are all reasons why some are not healed simply because some are not walking with God and cannot receive as they call upon Him in times of great need but otherwise ignore His leading.

Yes this personifies my point,Jesus in Mathew was talking about false teachers.

False teachers would have a hard time with understanding the Faith in God for healing.
 
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A reprobate mind purposes to sin in the face of God due to their pride and desire to be as God in the same manner of their father the devil.

Yes, and then there is deception - Jesus tells some who claim to be Christians to depart from Him in the end (they go to hell) because they are "workers of iniquity" including some who were doing many good works for the Lord which paints a picture of someone who has the appearance of being a good Christian even someone who is a well known Christian because they did many good works

Matthew 7:22,23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The problem with deception is it's so deceptive.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Another major reason why many are not healed (as well as not going to Heaven) is because they hear God's Word, but they don't DO God's Word and they are deceiving themselves.

It's odd that many who teach the exaggerated form of grace taught on TV these days claim that we are literally perfect. Apparently they choose to either ignore this next scripture of more likely claim it was not written to Christians:

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Lots of self deception going on these days which I'd imagine satan enjoys seeing since it makes what he is trying to do much easier.
 
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It's odd that many who teach the exaggerated form of grace taught on TV these days claim that we are literally perfect. Apparently they choose to either ignore this next scripture of more likely claim it was not written to Christians:

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Lots of self deception going on these days which I'd imagine satan enjoys seeing since it makes what he is trying to do much easier.
1 John 1 is about where we come from to become hl we are.

Farm Truck, to understand this verse we have to look at the whole message John teaches here in 1 John (it's all one letter). So, look at chapter 3 and rectify the following (taught by God through one writer, in one letter):

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 Jn 1:8-10 (KJV)

...with...

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 3:8-9 (KJV)
 
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2 Timothy 3:16
ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

You stand corrected! :oldthumbsup:

The "he cannot sin" part is only applicable to the guy who is walking in the Spirit which is not automatic according to Galatians 6:7,8. Let's look at the whole counsel of God and not just the parts that tickle out ears.

God does desire to treat us as though we are perfect and without sin even though 1 John 1:8 says we are not without sin. How is this accomplished??? Go back to Romans 8...

Romans 8:4
the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5:18 - But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.... this of course referring to the law of sin and death spoken of in Romans 8 not speaking of the Levitical law and some claim.

Those that walk after the flesh are living under the law of sin and death because they are choosing to not be led by the Holy Spirit. To be carnally minded IS death (Romans 8:6).

Most preachers today (and a growing number of translations) try to ignore the second part of Romans 8: 1 which states "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" God says, the no condemnation does not apply to those walking after the flesh which we have all done... which is why He put 1 John 1:9 in place so we could get cleansed after we decided to sin, on purpose!

1 John 1:9 works like this for the man walking in the Spirit... if someone calls you up and says "lets go do some shop lifting", the spiritual minded guy replies, "I cannot do that" because he is being led by and is listening to the Holy Spirit within and refuses to consider doing this sin.

But, the guy that is not yielding to the Holy Spirit accepts the thought of sin and allows it to enter in and he may know it's wrong... but he does it anyway because he allowed the Word (Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ) to be choked out of his life and he becomes unfruitful where walking in agreement with God is concerned.

Now that he has sown to the flesh willingly, there no further offering for sin (see Hebrews 10:26 - For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins)... and now the guy needs to engage Jesus in His High Priestly ministry which is what 1 John is all about which was written to Christians as was the entire book of 1 John.

We need to remember what Jesus said...

John 5:39,40
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The biggest problem with the ear tickling going on today is they teach that what Jesus taught is not applicable to us today and the focus is on bits and pieces of the New Testament after the Cross.

Jesus did not teach the "gospel of grace", or the "gospel of prosperity" or any other gospel other than the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Surely these other aspects have their place... but when one takes them out and tries to make a stand alone doctrine out of it, it results in ear tickling while ignoring the whole counsel of God which is simply considering the Word of God as a whole instead of picking and choosing what is to be considered and explaining away the stuff that does not fit in with what gives us the warm and fuzzy about ourselves.

When one goes to the Book of Revelation to read what Jesus said to the 7 churches... He clearly could still see their sin and instructed them to be zealous and repent (Revelation 3:19) which is His correction so we repent and receive His cleansing because... we were created in God's image so we do actually have to choose between good and evil as noted in Genesis 3:22 which is why God gave man the left foot of fellowship to be removed out of the Garden of Eden.

Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame
(see Revelation 16:12-16).
 
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now faith

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Jesus did not need to teach Grace,he is the Grace of God who shed his blood for the sake of our gift of Grace.

Christ performed what none other could do, he died for us.
If that is not grace I don't know what is.

Gospel simply means good news, this is good news:

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

3rd John
 
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So, you believe as many modern day preachers believe that... we do not need to follow the teachings of Jesus?

Obviously God desires to bless us... but, what happens to those that walk after the flesh where Romans 8 says are under condemnation for refusing the leading of the Holy Spirit? Is not 1 John 1:9 in order for that guy, or does he continue to ignore what God said in Proverbs which is a companion scripture:

Proverbs 28:13
He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Apparently, if we don't... He won't - actually He can't, because He cannot put His cleanings by the Blood of the Lamb upon someone who is not willing.

If God can automatically wash any person in the Blood of Jesus without their choosing to be in agreement with God and using their will to choose to receive what God has done for man... then universalism would be true because God is nor respector of persons and He has truly paid for the sin of ALL of mankind as in He tasted of death for every man!

So, why is universalism not a reality?

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Apparently, those that are not led by the Spirit are not the sons of God because rejecting His leading is rejecting His correction


Hebrews 12:6-10
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Receiving God's correction IS good news because He cannot agree with us - we must agree with and walk with Him in His ways of being and doing right. God desires to teach us His ways, not just accept us as we live like the world and call on Him occasionally on Sunday mornings and when we experience some big crisis.

It's our decision... are we going to let the Lord actually be our Lord, or do we just want to escape hell and live like the world which is what many Christians are doing today due to their belief in OSAS.

God even spoke of this happening in the end times that there would be a great falling away, and the love of many would grow cold... He was right.

God created us to live in us (2 Corinthians 6:16) which is what walking in the Spirit is all about - letting His Spirit live in us... but many who claim to be Christians today are so worldly that it's very obvious they are following a different jesus from the Jesus of the Bible.
 
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If that is not grace I don't know what is.

Some worship what God did and fail to see WHY He did it, and what was God's desired end result... which is for us to be in Him and Him in us. We are not to worship for what He can do for us, God desires to be worshiped for Who He is... our Loving Heavenly Father who desires to live IN us.

Many claim to be in Him... but do not allow Him to LIVE in them, and that's going to be a problem for those doing that. One reason why people fail to receive from the Lord is because they are just in it for what He can do for them - not for Who He is. He is a person that wants to be One with us in every aspect of our life... but the ways of this world are not His ways.

Big problem in the end times is, people claim to know God - but live as though they do not know Him which is evident seeing how worldly many Christians are.

When the world does not have a problem with a Christian - something ain't right!
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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2 Timothy 3:16
ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
Great verse. I share it with every cessationist I meet.

You stand corrected! :oldthumbsup:
Hardly, based upon what you've shared so far.

The "he cannot sin" part is only applicable to the guy who is walking in the Spirit which is not automatic according to Galatians 6:7,8. Let's look at the whole counsel of God and not just the parts that tickle out ears.
This is not true.

Let's look again:

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 Jn 3:9-10 (KJV)

These verses say NOTHING about walking in the Spirit. You can't wander off and apply a verse of your choosing to bind this one into your meaning. You CAN apply verses that support it based upon what it DOES say.

These verses say that "whosoever is born of God," and it says that God's "seed remaineth in him." This is salvation. This is not some subset of salvation, some set of people who through their own merit get to be considered holy.

Paul covered it well īn Romans. Men sin. You cannot walk without sinning. But with salvation God came into you and guides you; more importantly, he owns you: you are no longer your own --

17 But the one united with the Lord is one spirit with him. 18 Flee sexual immorality! "Every sin a person commits is outside of the body" - but the immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.
1 Cor 6:17-20 (NET)

We become one with Christ. Our bodies belong to God - we are not our own. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and our part is to participate in our sanctification. We have been changed (regenerated and justified). We no longer participate in sin. Paul even said it in Romans:

15 For I don't understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want - instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I do what I don't want, I agree that the law is good. 17 But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. 18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me.
Rom 7:15-20 (NET)

We know right from wrong, and we do what is wrong. But Paul tells us, for the born again Christian, it is not we who do this but sin within us. That is what occurs in the flesh. We as Spirit filled believers walk away from it (classic definition of repent). We do not participate in, or practice, it.

Look again at 1 Jon 3 n another translation:

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; indeed, sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that Jesus was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Jesus is righteous. 8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed: to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone who does not practice righteousness - the one who does not love his fellow Christian - is not of God.
1 Jn 3:4-10 (NET)

Key word: practices. This is why there is no such thing as a homosexual Christian. They refuse to quit practicing sin.

Jesus paid for our sins. All of them. But when one continues to practice sin, they never truly repented of their sin. They never truly accepted Christ. This is NEVER about how we perform, how we act. Our salvation is not about our ability. It is about our surrender. Then God takes over and changes us. After that, our ability is about sanctification, not salvation.

The rest of your post is worth discussing, but first we must ascertain WHO we are in Christ, what He has done for us, and how Father God sees us through the Blood of Christ.
 
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These verses say NOTHING about walking in the Spirit.

Ah, but the rest of the New Testament DOES speak strongly about walking in the Spirit... are you claiming man has no free will and that what we sow is not what we reap? This is what free will is in that God created us in His image, therefore God is not mocked... what we sow IS actually what we reap if you accept Galatians 6:7,8

The spirit of this age is more concerned with man than with the desire of the Lord that created man.

That's going to be a problem for all those that embrace such false teaching because God made man for the primary purpose for sharing Himself with us which is His will is what 2 Corinthians 6:16 is all about.

That's the trouble with the OSAS crowd is that apparently they think the Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ is a one way street and we do not have to allow God to live in us and walk in us because they believe no matter what we do, we will go to Heaven.

Revelation 3:5
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

"Overcomer" are those that allow the Lord to actually LIVE in them... not those that pay lip service unto the Lord and go on and live however they want refusing to be led by the Spirit living according to the ways of this world instead of walking in agreement with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Apparently, Jesus is going to blot some out of the Book of Life because some are workers of iniquity and not workers of righteousness. In other words, some do not actually walk in a personal relationship with the Lord - this is all about being one with the Lord, not just claiming we are and then living as though we are not which is what many are doing today and the ministry by and large is not calling people on it because they don't know any better themselves!

It's too bad that so many these days are picking and choosing which scriptures they believe and ignore others that are just as true. The whole counsel of God is simply understanding what God did when He created man... He made us "gods" (Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34) which simply means we are in control of our own destiny just like God is in control of His own destiny.

We can choose to either walk after the flesh or the Spirit... God allows people to go either way, even if it results in some ending up in hell for all eternity.
 
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